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Was the original intent of Johto to make a second Kanto?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by CyberCubed, Oct 14, 2011.

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  1. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    Wait a minute!!! I liked "The Dunsparce Deception" I could really relate to that episode.

    All the kids had a Dunsparce (probably from a swarm) and the one kid didn't...he was left out...Otherwise, finding a Dunsparce is VERY rare...It's like when you're in school, and all your friends have the newest toy out, and you don't...And then you feel left out...But when you do get what it is that everyone else had, you'll appreciate it more!!
  2. TicoPokemonMaster

    TicoPokemonMaster Well-Known Member

    I will agree that between the episodes after Ash beat Whitney to the episodes where Ash battled Chuck ( Mostly all of Johto League Champions) I was sort of getting bored with it. In that season the only things that interested me were the Gym battle against Morty. Chiokrita's evolution and development. the Celebi movie, the Mewtwo special, and Chuck's battle.

    Master Quest for me was like drinking cool water after coming inside from a very hot summers day in florida ( california or any other places that gets very hot) The Whirl Island arc was a change of pace and I started to like the episode after it filler or not.

    eidt: I just read another post from you Cyber it looks like you and me had the same sentiments for Johto League Champions.
  3. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    I think the high points for Johto were "Johto Journeys" because it was the first part of the new saga, Johto League Champions kinda fell flat, and Master Quest was the best part of it.
  4. Pinsirius

    Pinsirius Sentimental Fool ;)

    Pretty much.

    I never really caught on to Johto because, as has been said, the writers didn't understand how to pull the show's strings.

    The equation seemed to be to remove the off beat humor and replace it with much better battle choreography... with what would turn out to be the most uninteresting set of Pokemon in the series, both in general and regarding Ash's team. I don't have a ton of fond memories of it.
  5. Ohshi

    Ohshi Banned from Club Penguin

    Wow, I never though about it like that.

    So that is the reason why there are no recurring characters?
    Aww. If only Johto didn't mess it up...
  6. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Johto Journies was also only like 40 episodes, because in the dub, Season 3 officially started the ep after "Charizard Chills" from Orange Islands, which meant 4kids-wise Johto Journies was less than 52 episodes.

    Johto Journies does have some bad fillers, like the Snubbull episode, the Hoppip filler and so forth, but Ash's Kanto starters were still enjoyable and Johto did have an initital air of freshness to it...but it died down quickly.

    I honestly think the only reason people liked the beginning of Johto was that Brock came back after Orange, and people really liked Brock back at the time. My my, how times would change 10 years later where people actually want Brock gone....
  7. TicoPokemonMaster

    TicoPokemonMaster Well-Known Member

    Well cuz Max took his roll as the guide in AG, and his flirting got old after Johto ended. Every time the focus was on a girl I was like " Ok Brock reacts in 3,2,1 yup".
  8. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Brock was still somewhat interesting in Johto, and I even thought he was still OK in the AG days...it wasn't until DP that it became obvious Brock had lost all purpose in the series.

    Apparently the writers realized the same thing, which is why he's been finally removed.
  9. TicoPokemonMaster

    TicoPokemonMaster Well-Known Member

    your right. DP was basically the saga of Friendship between Ash and Dawn. Unlike AG that showed more a group dynamic. if anything the writer's gave Brock Happiny on purpose as a way to boot him out. and the fact that in one episode he all of a sudden changes his field of expertise. Especially on that topic I never really felt that Breeding was ever emphasized with Brock only the episodes were he had Vulpix and somewhat every once in a while when a pokemon got sick or didn't want to eat food.
  10. Demonsead

    Demonsead Hoenn Challenger

    I've seen all the episodes in the anime at least once in order while they were still airing when I was a kid so that "seen less that 30% of the entire pokemon series" crack is false. I'm curious why you're such an elitist about watching filler.
  11. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    There were some episodes from Johto league Champions which were quite fun and amusing imo.Like "Unbearable" with Misty wanting to capture Teddiursa,"Sick Daze" which tested Ash and Misty adaptability to take care of things without Brock."Hook,Line and Stinker"(episode about fishing contest),"Rung Masters"where Snorlax won earning King stone which was later used to evolve Poliwhirl etc.

    Depends for who.While i didnt liked much middle of Johto,Master Quest felt fresh and new actually enjoying in show again.Like i said its ungrateful to throw all parts of Johto in same basket.

  12. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry but because of your stance on filler episodes, it would've helped your position a lot if you had said that first. Initially, you never said that you watched all the episodes when they were originally airing until NOW. Because of that, you made it seem as if you were one of those oh so many people who quit watching the show when Johto was airing.

    When the subject of filler episodes first came up, you said that
    Then you said
    Judging from your previous statements, it seems as if you already KNEW what episodes were gonna be filler, and which ones would advance the main plot. So like I said, it would've helped your position a lot more in the beginning had you said that you watched the episodes when they were initially airing because you basically made it seem like you just skipped them all.
  13. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    So I have a question, for the people who regularly rewatch Johto, what do you guys think about it? Do you agree the quality declined from Kanto/Orange?

    How did you feel about the original trio in Johto? Was it less memorable than in Kanto? Did you find Ash's Johto team nostalgic or exciting to watch? How do you feel about the pacing, battles, or general episodes?
  14. Demonsead

    Demonsead Hoenn Challenger

    I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I stopped watching just because I prefer to skip filler or that filler made up 70% of the series.

    1. Mediocre
    2. Yes
    3. I found Misty much more tolerable and was starting to dislike Brock, Ash was fine.
    4. More memorable actually.
    5. Not nostalgic, but some of the fights were fun.
    6.Pacing was ****, battles were fine, anything that wasn't filler was good.
  15. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Well-Known Member

    While I agree that he overly defends filler as a whole, I can't say that I agree with all filler episodes being low quality.

    Just as some story progressive episodes are low in quality, there are filler episodes which have creativity. Even with Johto, episodes be they significant or just filler should be judged on a case by case basis.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  16. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    I have a better question. This is of course, for you Cyber. I think it's ok to assume that you were displeased with how the Johto saga was handled with the bad pacing, decline in quality from Kanto/Orange, etc....

    I want to know, did you ever stop watching the anime while Johto was airing because of your dissatisfaction with it??
  17. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    To answer question,quality decreased in some segments like episodes becoming too formulatic and repetitive(applied to excessive use of fillers).Ash rivals and pokemon were treated badly,plots were butchered(like GS ball),Misty and Brock didnt got enough focus with their story ending up underdeveloped and Rocket trio started to feel stale going nowhere.

    However original trio(Ash,Misty and Brock) in Johto still actually felt like genuine group of friends having good chemistry and several memorable moments.They felt like group which knew themselves very well having their principles,certain spark and better dynamic than it was case with some other groups like DP was(at least in my opinion).

    Battles were a lot better compared to first 2 seasons,Ash sidekicks actually battled more receiving some notable focus and growth,we got several great arcs and memorable gym leaders,return from older characters(like Todd,Duplica or Aya) and there are many episodes from this region i always like to go back and watch being well written and enjoyable.

    Final thought:Johto did many things wrong feeling like step down,but it wasnt garbage having good things and improvements compared to Kanto which are often unfairly missed and overlooked.
  18. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Nope I still watched every episode. Keep in mind at the time I just always watched Saturday morning cartoons so I watched Pokemon because that's what was on. I also thought the anime was going to end after Johto so I figured I might as well just see every episode.

    From what I gather, most people who stopped watching Johto did so shortly after Goldenrod City.
  19. RickHoenn

    RickHoenn Banned

    Why the ratings for all the Johto arc were stable and then declined at the start of AG?

    Most people did not stopped watching Johto midway through it, they saw all of Johto but a lot of them grew up from the show when Hoenn started.

    I remember the first time I didn't watch much of JLC but that's because I was starting to watch MTV and such but then I picked up on reruns and watched the last episodes of JLC and all of Master Quest.

    From my point of view: Hoenn >>>>>>>> Johto BUT most of my friends in school after Johto League ended dropped the show, it was so weird back then lol I was one of the few that kept loyal to the anime (games never stopped being popular tho).
  20. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    But why? Why wouldn't you just stop watching it?? If you were so displeased with it, I don't see why you didn't just abandon it like the others...It's not like they weren't gonna show the episodes anymore...

    It's also ironic that there's people who don't like how BW is being handled, and they don't like Iris specifically, but they'll sit through it and put themselves through the pain and agony of watching it. Well, we have all these anime websites that stream the links for episodes, we have blog sites that host them, and we have Youtube now, so you can watch any episode of anything you want really. I always suggest to people that they can simply just stop watching the show, and catch them later, but I'm always being labeled as the "irrational one"....Oh well...
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