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Victreebong

Gives 'em the slip..
Yeah, you water-starter lovers have been shafted just about every generation. Greninja has obviously been the standout to break the cycle up. Need to do the right thing and come on over to the grass-starter side: we have snakes that throw leafs, owls that shoot arrows, monkeys that play the drums.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Something I want to point out is that it looks flamboyant to North Americans and many Europeans because there isn't anything quite like it in the culture, but there are plenty of male dancers like this in Brazil, who are not seen as flamboyant or stereotypically gay, but just...male dancers. Quaquaval's design, while it looks effeminate to those unfamiliar with Brazilian culture, shows that Game Freak did their research and made something true to its origins without fear of it looking strange to others. And as you said, it's common among birds for the males to be flashy and showy and the females be drab and dull (whereas it's the other way around for most mammals and reptiles).
I'm brazilian and I do think people have a point about it leaning a bit on stereotyped. Not necessarily "gay" but at least flamboyant

Not a dealbreaker to me but my opinion is biased because I've always wanted a water/fighting starter (or else I'd have picked the cat lol)
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
In their research it might help educate some on a country's culture and whatnot too, in a way. And just things that go on there. Like how in Galar, based off Europe sports have an inpact there, and the Pokemon battles reflect that. Similar to Alola. It's kewl.
I should also point out that leading up to Sword and Shield, people right here on the Serebii Forums were complaining about the lack of a Pokémon based on the Big Ben, on Lewis Carroll's characters, on the Nuckelavee, on Jack the Ripper, on Beefeater guards, etc. What all these have in common are the touristy, global pop-culture parts of the UK, particularly those based on the Victorian Period.

I think Game Freak should be given more credit for NOT going for the "theme park" aspects of a country, which its inhabitants are often irked by depictions of and see as ethnocentric and ignorant (it would be the equivalent of getting one more region in Japan and fans getting upset at the lack of Pokémon based on Ikeda Castle, on characters from The Mikado, on chopsticks, and on torii gates--stereotypes of Japan from centuries ago). Instead, they not only do their research, they travel to these countries themselves to observe the culture, the people, the history, and the wildlife, take notes and sketches, and return to HQ to share what they learned. For Galar, in addition to Perrserker, you have Pokémon based on Jacob sheep (a breed popular in the UK), white coral (albeit combined with bleached coral, but there are some naturally white species that live near the English Channel), cotton (Gossifleur is even found near the Pokémon world's counterpart to Manchester, where cotton was historically grown and processed), Asian elephants (reflecting the UK's long and troubled history with South Asia), and punk rock (which got its origins in the UK).

You can see something similar with Spanish and Portuguese culture for the Generation IX Pokémon. You have Pokémon based on olives (the olive industry is huge in Spain), Alano Español Mastiffs, tumbleweeds (native to Europe, specifically Russia, but became invasive in dry places--like Spain/Portugal), alpine marmots (recently reintroduced back to Spain), monk parakeets (Squawkabilly comes in green, white, blue, and yellow, like real monk parakeets; unlike Chatot, their toes are also designed correctly with two in the front and two in the back), and salt (some Iberian ethnic groups view salt as sacred). With Quaquaval, I think it's like with Cufant and Copperajah, reflecting on Portugal's history with Brazil. In addition, Stonjourner returning is based on the dolmans found throughout the Iberian Peninsula.

This is not to mention the disparaging comments about sandwiches being a major part of Paldean culture, or why Alfornada has an Arabic look and feel to it.

I'm brazilian and I do think people have a point about it leaning a bit on stereotyped. Not necessarily "gay" but at least flamboyant

Not a dealbreaker to me but my opinion is biased because I've always wanted a water/fighting starter (or else I'd have picked the cat lol)
The thing with those of us in the US, Canada, and many parts of Europe is that we have some pretty specific ideas of what gay stereotypes looks like, and there is a great deal of fear of them (moreso in the US than the others). As a result, people unintentionally trained themselves to see signifiers of these stereotypes, get really sensitive to seeing anything that and anyone who even vaguely resembles them, and distance themselves from them.

Thank you for your input though; I was wondering if some of it was over-the-top.

Nevertheless, Quaquaval has gained some traction in the LGBTQ+ communities in these countries for having some of those traits, even if it might not be intentional. It got some of them to play Pokémon Scarlet and Violet where they had no prior interest in Pokémon (which I think can tie in to the discussion immediately prior about fan opinion not necessarily being the same as popular opinion).
 
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ValorSuga

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you water-starter lovers have been shafted just about every generation. Greninja has obviously been the standout to break the cycle up. Need to do the right thing and come on over to the grass-starter side: we have snakes that throw leafs, owls that shoot arrows, monkeys that play the drums.
If anything, Gamefreak needs to stop hiring designers that have 0 experience in making non humanoid pokemon designs! #JusticeForWaterStarters
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Sylveon also is massively popular among the LGBTQ+ community (to the point that I've seen it used as a symbol/mascot of LGBTQ+ groups that aren't even based around Pokemon), and I've seen a lot of positive opinions on Iron Valiant as well.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Sylveon also is massively popular among the LGBTQ+ community (to the point that I've seen it used as a symbol/mascot of LGBTQ+ groups that aren't even based around Pokemon), and I've seen a lot of positive opinions on Iron Valiant as well.
True. But I've also seen Quaquaval accepted too, which was my point.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
True. But I've also seen Quaquaval accepted too, which was my point.
Yeah, I agree with you, I was more responding to ValorSuga's framing that Quaquaval's popularity comes at the expense of Sylveon or Iron Valiant; it does not. All three can be (and are) popular among the LGBTQ+ community at the same time.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
In case i forgot to mention it. I'm actually proud of how i personally predicted that Fuecoco would break the norm and not be bipedal. (i did expect a T-Rex look at first like Tyrantrum) in it's Skeledirge form. But he's quite a badass new trend for alligators after Feraligator and Krokovile being bipedals.
 

dementeddurian

Love Ball Lover
I like Quaquaval.

It's about time we got a dancer Pokemon that could hold their own, since Hitmontop tended to be lacking punch and Oricorio often relies on back-up dancers.

I'm waiting for the chance to put one in a Love Ball since I'm a sucker for those Poke Balls.
 

ValorSuga

Well-Known Member
We'll see what the Japanese part of the fandom thinks about the final evolutions, even if it is often clear the unevolved Pokemon are marketed more over there. It's just that I'm keen to hear which one they prefer the final evolution of, and which final evolution is unpopular enough or which unevolved stage is "the next Piplup" enough to deem that starter as doomed to staying unevolved in the anime.

I think after a month, we can conclude that Fuecoco is the most popular Paldea starter in the western market due to Skeledirge being the long-awaited quadruped fully-evolved Fire starter that everyone had dreamed of, and the only negative comments at best that I hear about it is that it's "too blocky" while Meowscarada and Quaquaval still seem to find themselves labelled in that "furries" camp that Delphox, Cinderace and Inteleon often get slapped with. Sprigatito is probably second place in popularity since Meowscarada still has its fair share of fans as well even if going bipedal turned others away. Quaxly sadly is probably meeting the same fate in the West that Tepig, Chespin, Popplio and Sobble are due to a heavily unpopular final evolution. I have seen several Quaquaval fans too, but not as close to the amount of Meowscarada fans. Skeledirge is OK at best for me, I actually love the other two more.
That didn’t age well! Quaxly is still the most unpopular paldea starter, so I was right!
 

ValorSuga

Well-Known Member
We'll see what the Japanese part of the fandom thinks about the final evolutions, even if it is often clear the unevolved Pokemon are marketed more over there. It's just that I'm keen to hear which one they prefer the final evolution of, and which final evolution is unpopular enough or which unevolved stage is "the next Piplup" enough to deem that starter as doomed to staying unevolved in the anime.

I think after a month, we can conclude that Fuecoco is the most popular Paldea starter in the western market due to Skeledirge being the long-awaited quadruped fully-evolved Fire starter that everyone had dreamed of, and the only negative comments at best that I hear about it is that it's "too blocky" while Meowscarada and Quaquaval still seem to find themselves labelled in that "furries" camp that Delphox, Cinderace and Inteleon often get slapped with. Sprigatito is probably second place in popularity since Meowscarada still has its fair share of fans as well even if going bipedal turned others away. Quaxly sadly is probably meeting the same fate in the West that Tepig, Chespin, Popplio and Sobble are due to a heavily unpopular final evolution. I have seen several Quaquaval fans too, but not as close to the amount of Meowscarada fans. Skeledirge is OK at best for me, I actually love the other two more.
Hisuian Samurott also meets the same fate as Quaxly!
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Honestly, out of the 3 Decidueye is the only one I felt was vastily improved.
 

Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
If anything, Gamefreak needs to stop hiring designers that have 0 experience in making non humanoid pokemon designs! #JusticeForWaterStarters
The problem isn't Humanoid Pokémon design

Just look at Meowscarada. It is literally in the Top 3 of most popular Paldea Pokémon and that thing is humanoid af

The problem I feel with Quaquaval was probably the giant rear end and the awkward running animation making people feel a little uncomfortable

Tho I still like it lol


Also ironically enough Popplio and Sobble were actually the most Popular Starters of their respective Generations over in Japan lol
 

Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
Anyways heres an official Popularity poll of the Paldea Dex



Meowscarada (a humanoid who people wanted to stay on all 4s mind you) is literally in 3rd Place

Quaquaval is the Lowest Placed Final Stage Starter BUT it is also the most popular member of the Quaxly Line which is more than you can say for Skeledirge who is absolutely MOGGED by it's Base Stage Fuecoco


So it looks like the Fuecoco line will be seeing a Rowlet/Piplup situation in the future
 

Baggie_Saiyan

Well-Known Member
My problem with Skeledirge I think it's the mouth flames the same as with Charizard X. It just looks more silly than cool. But I do love Skeledirge's motif with the egg and the bird

Tbh I love how starters have more personality and motifs nowadays. I think it's probably due to now that they aren't restricted to sprites
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
Anyways heres an official Popularity poll of the Paldea Dex



Meowscarada (a humanoid who people wanted to stay on all 4s mind you) is literally in 3rd Place

Quaquaval is the Lowest Placed Final Stage Starter BUT it is also the most popular member of the Quaxly Line which is more than you can say for Skeledirge who is absolutely MOGGED by it's Base Stage Fuecoco


So it looks like the Fuecoco line will be seeing a Rowlet/Piplup situation in the future
Well this is a Japanese poll. An international poll might yield different results.
 
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