Weather in 5th Gen

[TerraWolf]

Before I made this, I did indeed look around the 5th Gen Competitive section and found nothing on this topic.

As we know, weather has gotten some good improvement since Gen 3. Gen 4 had given us an extra Sandstorm Starting Pokemon, 2 Hail starting Pokemon and a new weather, Trick Room. We also received Items to prolong the weather conditions we all love and can't start in the OU tier.

Now with the new Generation having come, and we've seen how the new Pokemon tick (Moves, BST, Abilities) all we need is the new set of Tiers right? Wrong. We have gotten a lot from the Dream World itself. Due to the Dream World, we know have at least 2 Pokemon whom can instantly start any weather condition. We also have gotten a huge game changer in SandStorm team in the form of Doryuuzu.

What I want you, the poster, to do is post 1 Pokemon, from 1-649, that can greatly benefit the current Weather Conditions, bar Trick Room, which is optional. I'll Start.

SandStorm- I myself run a Sand team, and it's had it's highs and lows. Most of my sand team is really slow, but I have 2 fast hard hitters. I'm currently testing new methods to improve my team, but since this is 5th gen, I wanna talk about a game changer, and his name is Doryuuzu. Doryuuzu, I believe will be the Ursaring of Sandstorm. Doryuuzu has 2 nifty effect that work like Sand Veil. Doryuuzu gets a boost in Attack with Sand Strength, and a boost in speed with Sand Throw. Doryuuzu runs a base 88 Speed, which means, he will have a 1.5x speed increase. That means that Doryuuzu has a high chance of being a late game sweeper, Trick Room or not, but in Trick Room, I'd prefer a Doryuuzu with Sand Strength. Although Doryuuzu does have a high speed, a 1.5x boosted 135 base attack, Doryuuzu will be a great late game sweeper again.

Rain- I plan on creating a rain team before Black and White come state side, I think Politoed will be a big changer. Despite being in NU, it's Dream World ability will be the big part. Drizzle. A once Kyorge exclusive, Politoed will be getting this ability. Despite not having Thunder access, Politoed can be paired with a Lightningrod Lanturn, who could bolt out multiple Thunder, and even get hit by an electric move if the opponent.

Sun- I believe sun will have 2 game changers.
1. Hihidaruma. Hihi has base 140 Attack and access to Flare Blitz. A banded STAB Sunny Blitz will be almost impossible to deal with, especially with a high 90 base speed.
2. Ninetales. Ninetales gets the same treatment as Politoed. Ninetales also gets access to Solar Beam. Ninetales Probably has the better chance to be pair with Hihi, due to it's better coverage and also Fire STAB and extra Fire Power.

Hail- I don't see a game changer in hail. Tsunbear might be the biggest change in Hail since Ice doesn't get much physical love.

Now you've seen my ideas, how about yours?

 

[BaldWombat]

Good thread idea. I'm interested in seeing what everyone comes up with.

 

[:wub:disc]

i ran into a rain stall team earlier. yes, rain stall. i am very inexperienced and this guy had obviously played for more than 5 minutes but it still worked well. politoed, regeneration slowbro, rain dish tentacruel, can't remember the rest. but it was surprisingly potent. don't underestimate the abilities to stall this generation.

 

[d0nut]

I'll give it a shot I guess.

Sand - Something other than Doryuuzu which might be great is Gigaiasu. It has great 85/130/70 defenses, and its lower 70 SpD is backed up by the Sandstorm making it pretty tough to take down. It has access to Sand Strength much like Doryuuzu and has the same attack, but also the same problem. It has a very limited movepool. Its main advantage over Dory is that it has Stone Edge versus the weaker Rock Slide which Dory is stuck with. It doesn't have the STAB EQ but SE is a good STAB also. Its main drawback is its Speed, though it is capable of taking a few hits before going down anyways. You might also consider running a Sand + TR team to get around its Speed.

Rain - Politoed is the obvious game changer here, and it also makes defensive Rain teams more viable since Rain no longer has a timer. A new addition to Rain teams which seems interesting is Armaldo. It now has access to Swift Swim, and its typing alone gives it an advantage over other Rain sweepers. Its Bug STAB can help clear Grass types which resist Surf and are bulky enough to take Ice Beams. There are also very few physical Rain sweepers as is so it won't have to try too hard to compete for a slot on an offensive Rain team. It could also work on a defensive Rain team due to its respectable bulk and access to Rapid Spin, but this is less viable.

Sun - Ninetails getting Drought makes Sun, which was formerly an occasional gimmick, a serious threat. Venusaur has always been one of the greatest Grass types, though one thing it lacked that other Grass types had was Chlorophyll. Dream World gives it this ability and it will probably be a staple on Sun teams. Another deadly offensive threat on Sun teams is Charizard. It is the only Fire type with access to Solar Power. When paired with STAB, the natural power boost from the Sun, and the boost from Solar Power, it goes without saying that its Flamethower/Fire Blast is going to put a serious dent in just about anything that doesn't have Flash Fire. Every kind of Blissey is 2HKO'd by FB from this monster. It has a very respectable Sp.Attack and Speed already so it might be difficult to stop in the sun provided it doesn't get neutered by SR.

Hail - Tons of things get access to Ice Body now. The only notable poke which could replace Walrein as the premier Hail staller is Regice. It has considerable Special Defense, and will likely be just as tough to stop, if not tougher, if it gets a Sub up. We all know what happens when it does so there really isn't much more I can say.

Trick Room - Trick Room itself didn't get any stronger. There are no items/abilities which benefit it at all. The only new thing is new users of the move and new slow pokes to abuse it with. Rankurusu would probably be the poke of choice here since it has awesome abilities, good defenses, and 125 SpA to abuse TR without having to switch out after he sets it up himself. He has a pretty good movepool, and thanks to Magic Guard he can run a LO without taking recoil to further boost its strength. He also has Recover which makes him quite difficult to take down.

 

[MetalFlygon08]

Rain-Politoad while cool with the new rain, will die quickly, and then the opponent will cancel out the rain for their sunlight, alone Poiltoad can't carry the team, and once it's knocked out, you lose access to permanent rain. It's overhyped since it won't stay around long and it's the only Drizzler in OU.

Sun-Ninetails and Vulpix (you technically could have 2 droughters on 1 team) has more going for it imo, and has access to a move to take advantage of it's ability, and stop the ground, water and rock types that would seek to destroy her.

 

[Plusle.]

I've made a ubers rain team and zekrom is a pretty nice rain abuser. Helps cover up my electric and grass weak.

 

[:wub:disc]

i've been running a sun team (ninetales / shanderaa / venusaur / burunkeru / heatran / doryuuzu (yeah i know it's pretty ****, it was made in 10 minutes)) for a while, and it's... mixed. when it works, it works REALLY well (overheat shanderaa brb killing everything) but it really relies on things not missing (hypnosis, sleep powder, overheat, fire blast) and i've been having a huge streak of bad luck with this team. that and i don't think it's very good. sun certainly has potential but it seems like it's majorly outclassed by rain... i could barely think of any threatening sun pokes at first but can think of around 20 in rain and sand off the top of my head.

 

[Aerophoenix]

I must ask, for clarity: is Magic Room ( a new move) a Weather Condition? I would assume not, but it may be.

 

[d0nut]

I must ask, for clarity: is Magic Room ( a new move) a Weather Condition? I would assume not, but it may be.

I wouldn't think a "no item for 5 turns" move would be considered weather. Its more like a two-sided Embargo which is kind of worthless. Wonder Room, on the other hand might be closer to being a weather. It switches the Defense of a pokemon with its Special Attack. Somthing like Cloyster might suddenly become an offensive threat when it has base 180 SpA for a few turns. It also makes some things harder to take down, such as Blissey, though it loses the ability to do any damage. Something else which could be listed here is Gravity which completely slipped my mind up until this point.

 

[Aerophoenix]

I wouldn't think a "no item for 5 turns" move would be considered weather. Its more like a two-sided Embargo which is kind of worthless. Wonder Room, on the other hand might be closer to being a weather. It switches the Defense of a pokemon with its Special Attack. Somthing like Cloyster might suddenly become an offensive threat when it has base 180 SpA for a few turns. It also makes some things harder to take down, such as Blissey, though it loses the ability to do any damage. Something else which could be listed here is Gravity which completely slipped my mind up until this point.

True enough. But Gravity, it should be noted, is definitely NOT a weather condition, though I am unsure as to whether Trick Room is or not. And I mean an actual weather condition, one that cancels out others.

Wonder Room, like the previous two and Magic Room, is likely not technically a weather condition, but should be considered as a viable candidate for this discussion (as should Gravity, though they may not be weather conditions). I even feel Magic Room should.

EDIT: And, I suppose technically Uproar, at least from the terrifying perspective that it could cause Acid Rain.

 

[Shneak]

I don't think Hail bring anything new to the table. Sand and Rain are once again great, due to new abilities and Pokemon. Sun might become better now.

 

[TerraWolf]

I must ask, for clarity: is Magic Room ( a new move) a Weather Condition? I would assume not, but it may be.

It doesn't Count. Like d0nut said, Wonder Room may count.

 

[shadowsfalling19]

I wouldn't think a "no item for 5 turns" move would be considered weather. Its more like a two-sided Embargo which is kind of worthless. Wonder Room, on the other hand might be closer to being a weather. It switches the Defense of a pokemon with its Special Attack. Somthing like Cloyster might suddenly become an offensive threat when it has base 180 SpA for a few turns. It also makes some things harder to take down, such as Blissey, though it loses the ability to do any damage. Something else which could be listed here is Gravity which completely slipped my mind up until this point.

This. ^

If Trick Room was a weather condition,we wouldn't be able to use Hail and Sandstorm during Trick Room.

 

[Lance The Champ]

The only better thing is that a pokemon team depending on weather conditions will get some more help from 5th generation pokemon

 

[pokeman13]

SUN-I would personally like to talk about Shandera, one of my favorite gen5 pokemon. I believe it could work well on almost any team as a trapper with shadow tag and a whopping 145 base SAtk, but would work even better on a sun team which would increase his fire type moves to incredible power and enable him to do incredible amounts of damage and anialate a lot of things. Espesialy when backed up by ninetails. This thing has a lot of potential and I would like to see it used well.

TRICK ROOM-I also think that the new pokemon nattorie would be epic in the trick room environment. Although the pokemon itself does not learn trick room it would be epic in it with the moves curse, gyro ball and power whip plus a mere base 20 speed it would be epic for doing some damage and setting up stealth rock and spikes.

 

[Razor Shiftry]

Parasect is surprisingly good in rain with a sub seed set.

X-Scissor
Spore
Substitute
Leech seed

In fact, dry skin + Leech seed + Leftovers means that even when he subs, he in fact, GAINS HP. throw in Spore and his counter is taken care of. X-scissor go taunt doesn't ruin him, and it's useful against grasses who think they can ruin him.

 

[AromaFlora]

So if anyone's following Smogon, Drizzle + Swift Swim has been banned for awhile and there's certainly been only a few interesting things to note, most notably the fall of Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Omastar domination. Ferrothorn is still a pest under the rain, though, and it seems Thundurus and Tornadus destroy most Pokemon with their respective STAB and coverage moves, unless there's Chansey/Blissey. Water-types without Swift Swim are also pretty lethal, especially with powerful Hydro Pumps/Water move in their arsenal. That would probably be toward Starmie, Cloyster, and best of all, Azumarill (whose Aqua Jet apparently hurts like hell!). I guess Dragon Dance Gyarados should get a mention... (yeah I hate him) Oh yeah, Politoed. Interesting balanced fellow, imo. Hypnosis misses like an deformed idiot, Hydro Pump has its share of good damage, and, yeah, Politoed doesn't actually seem too interesting... it's just there for setting the weather. I guess you can say it's pretty bulky actually!

Sun? It doesn't seem to be that dominant actually. It works for sure, as Ninetales is great for spreading burn to ease the pressure on your sun abusers (best ones being Venusaur, Volcarona, and I guess Heatran... Blaziken's worth a mention). It's just one thing that keeps holding back sun: Stealth Rock. Most of the Pokemon are vulnerable to it, and what valuable spinner in the sun is available? Forretress gets increased vulnerability toward Fire-type attacks, but it's otherwise pretty much your best bet (and it can spread hazards and be equipped a Shed Shell in order to give your Flash Fire Pokemon a free boost). Starmie, just no. Excadrill outside the sandstorm is a crazy thought, but it could work just in case your foe's Tyranitar is just too troublesome. Donphan and Hitmontop are probably the better ones out there type-wise, but I don't think they're that great in this metagame (though usable! I'll give them that). Otherwise, yeah, that's where sun gets jacked though it's always fun setting up on Water-types due to the lower Water damage they do upon Fire-types. Bulky Volcarona setting up on Jellicent, Suicune, and Starmie is just awesome, but Toxic is a bummer (which makes me want to use Substitute, lol).

Sandstorm is as excellent as it can be. Still there, dominating the metagame with all its might. Tyranitar, with its usual bulky spread, can survive throughout a match to set up Stealth Rock, keep the sand running, and punish poor switches with Pursuit (coupled with Fire Blast/Stone Edge). There's Excadrill and Landorus, laying the pain on whatever they want. Gliscor and Garchomp too! Although, Gliscor wants Poison Heal nowadays, but 6.25% damage every turn is not bad when Toxic/Protect stalling. The fact that Ground-type mostly only have Grass-, Water-, and Ice-type weaknesses means that you can easily cover those types with a single slot: Chansey/Blissey. Unless they're physical attacks (Virizion and Azumarill... that's what they're getting popular for!), then yeah, they're screwed.

And lastly, hail? What's hail? Honestly, "no one" uses it (yes, I know some people do; even I tried it several times). Poor defensive typing, only ability is the ability to spam Blizzard, and... "too fragile" and limited? The fun thing is using an all-out attacking Focus Sash Abomasnow to destroy the foe (well, I do that, though it's stupid since you want to preserve your weather setter to re-set the weather throughout a match). Mostly because people don't expect Focus Sash on Abomasnow do they lose their Deoxys-S lead or something, which is cool. Kyurem and Glaceon are great to have in the hail environment if only for their 125 and 130 Special Attack stats, respectively. Snow Cloak's a great plus for Glaceon to... ehehe, hax people, but you can't rely on that forever! Mamoswine would be great if Icicle Drop/Superpower weren't illegal with Thick Fat, but otherwise, an option. Stallrein, that's too old! Meh, hail's just too limited on what it can do. Wish the x1.5 to Defense rumor was true...

So how have your weather games been? Just spilling out my opinions and views.

 

[Swagmander]

It seems to me like weather will almost be a necessity in the 5th Gen, as there is no such thing as a "Clear Skies" move, and Cloud Nine users are slightly mediocre.

 

[MaxPegasus42]

I certainly agree with most of what is said about weather being an issue in this gen... With that said, I would just like to throw out there the potential for using Dream World Lickilicky (Cloud Nine) as a potential pokemon to deal with weather effects...

 

[Swagmander]

Golduck might actually be decent though, its stats aren't awful and it gets Calm Mind.