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Weird moves certain Pokemon can or cannot learn

OshyHikari

c l a r i t y
What always bothered me was that in Gen 1 (Pokemon Red/Blue) that Charizard could not learn Fly despite the fact it has wings on it.
Or Lickitung not learning Lick until Gen 2…
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
Or Lickitung not learning Lick until Gen 2…
There's even more weird move decisions like Hydreigon can learn Surf.

Or Pokemon Emerald has a Lanturn located in Victory Road that only knows Earthquake.
 

Yveltal91057

It’s Kalos season!
There's even more weird move decisions like Hydreigon can learn Surf.

Or Pokemon Emerald has a Lanturn located in Victory Road that only knows Earthquake.
Most Dragon types can learn Surf so it’s not that weird for Hydreigon to learn it. Even several Pokémon who aren’t Dragon or Water types can learn Surf. (Tyranitar, Rhydon, Aggron, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Tauros, Lugia, etc.)
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
Crabominable has Pokedex entries indicating "it can lop off its own pincers and fire them like rockets." It also has one that says "before it stops to think, it just starts pummeling. There are records of its turning back avalanches with a flurry of punches." For me those entries seem like it should be quick at punching. Despite this there it does not get any increased priority moves such as Mach Punch.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
This is weird but not as weird as it not learning Crabhammer naturally despite being a crab and only getting it from its pre-evolution.

Granted that is weirder. I mentioned that one before for Crabominable only getting it from its pre-evo and is still seems odd to me even now.

Speaking of Crab Pokemon another is Crustle (partially based on a hermit crab) and it also doesn't get Crabhammer. While less odd as its a rock type I think it probably should get Crabhammer (other rock types do get some water moves) and I think it should be able to access Crabhammer (even if only via move reminder or egg move)
 
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OshyHikari

c l a r i t y
Crabominable has Pokedex entries indicating "it can lop off its own pincers and fire them like rockets." It also has one that says "before it stops to think, it just starts pummeling. There are records of its turning back avalanches with a flurry of punches." For me those entries seem like it should be quick at punching. Despite this there it does not get any increased priority moves such as Mach Punch.
That lack of priority really hurts it when you consider how frailer it is than it looks. Maybe if it makes it in S/V, it could get buffed with a moveset update?
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
That lack of priority really hurts it when you consider how frailer it is than it looks. Maybe if it makes it in S/V, it could get buffed with a moveset update?

Exactly. Its that bad combination of slow and fragile which doesn't help. I hope they do upgrade it (if it makes SV). At the very least I think it should get Mach Punch (given it has Iron fist) and Ice shard could also work. Bullet Punch would also be helpful (for fairies) and it would't be that crazy given Crabominable does get Iron Head. But if it was just one I'd definitely choose Mach Punch as that combined with its decent attack stat, Iron Fist and STAB would make it a lot more practical.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
Exactly. Its that bad combination of slow and fragile which doesn't help. I hope they do upgrade it (if it makes SV). At the very least I think it should get Mach Punch (given it has Iron fist) and Ice shard could also work. Bullet Punch would also be helpful (for fairies) and it would't be that crazy given Crabominable does get Iron Head. But if it was just one I'd definitely choose Mach Punch as that combined with its decent attack stat, Iron Fist and STAB would make it a lot more practical.
It looks too heavy to get Mach Punch. It's a perfect bulky pokemon to get Hammer Arm but nope Crabrawler/Crabominable line can't get it.
It also doesn't get Heavy Slam or Body Slam.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
It looks too heavy to get Mach Punch. It's a perfect bulky pokemon to get Hammer Arm but nope Crabrawler/Crabominable line can't get it.
It also doesn't get Heavy Slam or Body Slam.

It's a heavy Pokemon but to be honest Hariyama weighs significantly more that Crabominable and it can get bullet Punch. Mamoswine is heavier than Crabominable and it gets ice shard. While it is true that it would be one of the heavier Mach Punch users it is often given to Pokemon that need it for speed purposes (like Conkeldurr). Plus Crabominable can literally has a dex entry saying it can lop off its own pincers and fire them like rockets. I'm aware it doesn't get it Mach punch/Bullet Punch/Ice Shard I think it should get one of them. Crabominable base defence is 77 and its base special defence is 67 so its not as bulky as it seems (its HP helps slightly but not that much).
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
Hyper Beam is a move that was initially largely only learnt by fully evolved forms (or at least fully evolved when introduced). Despite this Trapinch a Pokemon that has never been fully evolved has been able to get Hyper Beam since gen 3. Now in gen 3 Hyper Beam was physical so Trapinch could at least use it with its decent attack. However since gen 4 it has been special and a they added Giga Impact as a physical option but Trapinch does not get that. So it can use Hyper beam with 45 special attack but not Giga Impact with its 100 attack.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
Hyper Beam is a move that was initially largely only learnt by fully evolved forms (or at least fully evolved when introduced). Despite this Trapinch a Pokemon that has never been fully evolved has been able to get Hyper Beam since gen 3. Now in gen 3 Hyper Beam was physical so Trapinch could at least use it with its decent attack. However since gen 4 it has been special and a they added Giga Impact as a physical option but Trapinch does not get that. So it can use Hyper beam with 45 special attack but not Giga Impact with its 100 attack.
Still Flygon's 80 Special Attack isn't too far Physical 100 Attack. Oddly Hyper Beam seems to have been replaced by Boomburst in Gen 8 Level Moves.
Also in Gen 8 Giga Impact and Hyper Beam are just TM's.

Why the change? I don't have any idea.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
Still Flygon's 80 Special Attack isn't too far Physical 100 Attack. Oddly Hyper Beam seems to have been replaced by Boomburst in Gen 8 Level Moves.
Also in Gen 8 Giga Impact and Hyper Beam are just TM's.

Why the change? I don't have any idea.

Flygon learning both of them I've no issue with. Its just why it can learn it at that stage when its unevolved as a Trapinch. As for why they changed Hyper beam for Boomburst in the level up moves my suspicion is that they got rid of a lot of pre-evolution only moves so it was probably for simplicity given Vibrava has had boomburst since gen 6 but flygon (without getting it before it evolves) hasn't and they knew Hyper beam and Giga Impact would be fairly easy to access. Its still weird I admit.
 

Yveltal91057

It’s Kalos season!
Flygon learning both of them I've no issue with. Its just why it can learn it at that stage when its unevolved as a Trapinch. As for why they changed Hyper beam for Boomburst in the level up moves my suspicion is that they got rid of a lot of pre-evolution only moves so it was probably for simplicity given Vibrava has had boomburst since gen 6 but flygon (without getting it before it evolves) hasn't and they knew Hyper beam and Giga Impact would be fairly easy to access. Its still weird I admit.
Boomburst can be described as creating a sonic boom strong enough to break the sound barrier. In order for Flygon to create a sonic boom capable of breaking the sound barrier, it would have to be traveling faster than sound and moving approximately 750 miles per hour at sea level.

A better question is: Why can’t Galarian Zapdos or Kantonian Zapdos learn Boomburst?

Kantonian Zapdos should be able to learn Boomburst since a sonic boom is essentially the same thing as lightning and thunder. As for Galarian Zapdos, it’s confined to a limited area and can’t run 750 miles per hour at sea level or travel faster than sound.
 
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Palamon

Silence is Purple
Charizard cannot learn Fly in Red/Blue which is honestly very weird.

Honestly, there's a lot of Pokemon that are flying type, but can't learn fly that I find odd. And Pokemon that can learn it that definitely shouldn't be able to carry a human person on their back. (But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to Learn fly, mind you). I think I mentioned in this thread Yanmega, a Pokemon that is said to be able to carry people on its back and fly cannot learn fly. I find it strange that Pokemon like Butterfree and Mothim cannot learn fly in later Pokemon games that remove it as a Field move, to be honest. They no longer have a reason to not know Fly, if I'm being honest.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
Charizard cannot learn Fly in Red/Blue which is honestly very weird.

Honestly, there's a lot of Pokemon that are flying type, but can't learn fly that I find odd. And Pokemon that can learn it that definitely shouldn't be able to carry a human person on their back. (But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to Learn fly, mind you). I think I mentioned in this thread Yanmega, a Pokemon that is said to be able to carry people on its back and fly cannot learn fly. I find it strange that Pokemon like Butterfree and Mothim cannot learn fly in later Pokemon games that remove it as a Field move, to be honest. They no longer have a reason to not know Fly, if I'm being honest.
Doduo is one of the weirdest ones. No wings on it to explain flying..
 

MidnightHo-Oh

Well-Known Member
Boomburst can be described as creating a sonic boom strong enough to break the sound barrier. In order for Flygon to create a sonic boom capable of breaking the sound barrier, it would have to be traveling faster than sound and moving approximately 750 miles per hour at sea level.

A better question is: Why can’t Galarian Zapdos or Kantonian Zapdos learn Boomburst?

Kantonian Zapdos should be able to learn Boomburst since a sonic boom is essentially the same thing as lightning and thunder. As for Galarian Zapdos, it’s confined to a limited area and can’t run 750 miles per hour at sea level or travel faster than sound.
Ummmm... if you look at the list of Pokémon who can learn Boomburst, absolutely none of them are known for being able to travel at supersonic speed and thus create a sonic boom induced shockwave via their speed... but they all (with only a few select exceptions) have designs/inspirations involving sound. Boomburst is also described as "The user attacks everything around it with the destructive power of a terrible, explosive sound," and is negated by the Soundproof ability, both facts further supporting the fact that Boomburst is simply an extremely loud and powerful sound generated by the user.

To go through every Pokémon capable of learning Boomburst, we can see that:
  1. Exploud generates Boomburst from its 'speakers' and huge mouth
  2. Vibrava, and in turn Flygon, generates Boomburst from the intense buzzing of its wings (also see Yanma and Sonic Boom)
  3. Noivern generates Boomburst from its speaker-like ears
  4. Kommo-o generates Boomburst from the loud clanging of its scales
  5. Rillaboom generates Boomburst from beating upon its wooden drum
  6. Toxtricity generates Boomburst from its guitar-like chest organs
  7. Taillow & Pikipek (who learn it through breeding) generate Boomburst with the flapping of their wings (although I can presume that Pikipek's evolved forms, especially Toucannon, may instead use their beaks)
  8. Chatot (also as a result of breeding) most likely generates Boomburst through its singing voice
There are plenty of moves that either grant or utilize their user's incredible speed, but Boomburst is not one of them. In fact, it's actually surprising Boomburst is not available to more sound-based Pokémon than those listed above.

Also... lightning and thunder are NOT the same thing, mate, nor are they identical to a sonic boom. -_-
 
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