What are some questionable choices that the writers (or staff) have made in your opinion?

[DatsRight]

Meh idk, even XY didn't have that much interaction within ash team. The only ones were honestly noviern and hawlucha

Sinnoh as well. Don't remember any notable relationship within ash team even though they are my favorite

XY from what I remember started off okay, but after the Pokemon evolved they barely appeared besides their duties. Any group shots were barely animated because the art style was too detailed.


Also after a while of ambivalence I'm just gonna say this one:

The Aether family backstory is HORRENDOUS for utilising 'villains' as the pivot for all their trauma. And it's even worse for letting said villains get off the hook for it.

Like the reason for Lillie's trauma was because Faba was messing around with the Ultra Space portal and erased her memories. This alone barely works since it relies on NO ONE, not even Gladion questioning what happened, but then Faba is just let off with a slap on the wrist.

Same deal happened with Mohn. Sure, the Nihilego saved him, but it also basically kept him hostage and intentionally tried to stop him regaining his memories and rejoining his family, even going so far as to try snuff them out when they finally found him. I get Pokemon work on a different mindwave from humans (Rapooh trying to use Thief on Acerola to make her his friend for example) but this thing has basically acted like a horror story mastermind and is the deliberate reason the Aethers have never seen their father for years, you wouldn't think they'd welcome it with open arms.

It's worse because these were series-long storylines they had PLENTY of time and reference to think through. What if Lusamine herself was responsible for the botched experiment Lillie got caught in and chose to erase her memories out of mercy, giving more weight to their feud and adding a tint of her moral ambiguity from the games? (You could even keep Faba's involvement from that point after since he would likely just think he was maintaining her intent.) Or the Nihilego had indeed brought Mohn back but just replicated what it best thought was his family without knowing how or if it could reuinite them (which likely would have been a simpler way about it anyway). Well meaning but misguided actions without malicious hard-to-forgive intent.

To quote some guy I don't remember where they appeared from, they had a million different ways to go about this, why did they pick the worst one???

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

Meh idk, even XY didn't have that much interaction within ash team. The only ones were honestly noviern and hawlucha

Sinnoh as well. Don't remember any notable relationship within ash team even though they are my favorite

I meant in general not just Ash's Teams

While Ash's Team in XY may not have gotten much we still had some notable Pokemon interactions like Chespin/Pancham, Eevee/Bunnelby and Hawlucha/Noivern at least

Compared to sh!t like Journeys where the closest thing to an actual friendship between Pokemon is Lucario and Cinderace and even that is half assed

 

[Gingertail24]

XY from what I remember started off okay, but after the Pokemon evolved they barely appeared besides their duties. Any group shots were barely animated because the art style was too detailed.


Also after a while of ambivalence I'm just gonna say this one:

The Aether family backstory is HORRENDOUS for utilising 'villains' as the pivot for all their trauma. And it's even worse for letting said villains get off the hook for it.

Like the reason for Lillie's trauma was because Faba was messing around with the Ultra Space portal and erased her memories. This alone barely works since it relies on NO ONE, not even Gladion questioning what happened, but then Faba is just let off with a slap on the wrist.

Same deal happened with Mohn. Sure, the Nihilego saved him, but it also basically kept him hostage and intentionally tried to stop him regaining his memories and rejoining his family, even going so far as to try snuff them out when they finally found him. I get Pokemon work on a different mindwave from humans (Rapooh trying to use Thief on Acerola to make her his friend for example) but this thing has basically acted like a horror story mastermind and is the deliberate reason the Aethers have never seen their father for years, you wouldn't think they'd welcome it with open arms.

It's worse because these were series-long storylines they had PLENTY of time and reference to think through. What if Lusamine herself was responsible for the botched experiment Lillie got caught in and chose to erase her memories out of mercy, giving more weight to their feud and adding a tint of her moral ambiguity from the games? (You could even keep Faba's involvement from that point after since he would likely just think he was maintaining her intent.) Or the Nihilego had indeed brought Mohn back but just replicated what it best thought was his family without knowing how or if it could reuinite them (which likely would have been a simpler way about it anyway). Well meaning but misguided actions without malicious hard-to-forgive intent.

To quote some guy I don't remember where they appeared from, they had a million different ways to go about this, why did they pick the worst one???

Love to see another mini essay of yours lol

But yeah, that's my biggest gripe with aether foundation. Faba, who tried to erase the memories of his boss' daughter, basically gets off Scott free. Like what?? Then they invite him to the wedding????

And I feel this is because at the end of the day, pokemon is a kids show. I'm not saying that in a sense that it can't have much more darker themes and good writing. But I feel if SM was meant to be written for adults many things could of been written much differently. Like mallow mom not being just a one off thing, faba actually getting more than a slap on the wrist, Litten getting over stoutland death in one episode (yes ik it was multiple days but still), lusamine actually being abusive like she is in the games (I heard she is much worse in the manga), Lillie PTSD not being basically cured the moment she remembers syvally, etc.They probably don't want to delve too much into those topics. But I'm not trying to critique the show for this.

 

[DatsRight]

Love to see another mini essay of yours lol

But yeah, that's my biggest gripe with aether foundation. Faba, who tried to erase the memories of his boss' daughter, basically gets off Scott free. Like what?? Then they invite him to the wedding????

And I feel this is because at the end of the day, pokemon is a kids show. I'm not saying that in a sense that it can't have much more darker themes and good writing. But I feel if SM was meant to be written for adults many things could of been written much differently. Like mallow mom not being just a one off thing, faba actually getting more than a slap on the wrist, Litten getting over stoutland death in one episode (yes ik it was multiple days but still), lusamine actually being abusive like she is in the games (I heard she is much worse in the manga), Lillie PTSD not being basically cured the moment she remembers syvally, etc.They probably don't want to delve too much into those topics. But I'm not trying to critique the show for this.

It's a shame because SM actually bothered to handle darker themes in other regards.

And really making Lusamine responsible would have made a LESS dark scenario than Faba acting like a cliche evil bad guy, and even gave Lusamine something of a character arc. Someone who was still FAR more well meaning than her games counterpart, but made a rather poor 'quick fix' decision when her ambitions and family collided in a tragic way, giving far more effect to her present day self choosing to protect her kids instantly when history repeats itself.

Really what was holding that? Lillie and Gladion were turbulent with her mother anyway. They had established she was a flawed mother who made very bad decisions at times, this would have been IDEAL to do over 'It was Faba all along' and again, Faba could have still been working behind the scenes in his stupid way, just getting the call too late that Lusamine didn't want to keep up the charade, thus making his actions more forgivable too. The whole story could have flowed the exact same way just with that ONE backstory point changed and it would have worked better.

It reminds me how Goodra's built up backstory turned out to have Team Rocket as the mastermind behind it all to absolve Florges, despite not really making a great deal of sense and needing TR to act super unforgivably evil to make it work (and hey guess whose back to being the likeable bungling bad guy in episodes after?). Why make a monster of a bad guy behind it all if you're gonna redeem them anyway? Why not just have the more redeemable well meaning antagonist the one involved so they can do their arc?

 

[Gingertail24]

It's a shame because SM actually bothered to handle darker themes in other regards.

And really making Lusamine responsible would have made a LESS dark scenario than Faba acting like a cliche evil bad guy, and even gave Lusamine something of a character arc. Someone who was still FAR more well meaning than her games counterpart, but made a rather poor 'quick fix' decision when her ambitions and family collided in a tragic way, giving far more effect to her present day self choosing to protect her kids instantly when history repeats itself.

Really what was holding that? Lillie and Gladion were turbulent with her mother anyway. They had established she was a flawed mother who made very bad decisions at times, this would have been IDEAL to do over 'It was Faba all along' and again, Faba could have still been working behind the scenes in his stupid way, just getting the call too late that Lusamine didn't want to keep up the charade, thus making his actions more forgivable too. The whole story could have flowed the exact same way just with that ONE backstory point changed and it would have worked better.

It reminds me how Goodra's built up backstory turned out to have Team Rocket as the mastermind behind it all to absolve Florges, despite not really making a great deal of sense and needing TR to act super unforgivably evil to make it work (and hey guess whose back to being the likeable bungling bad guy in episodes after?). Why make a monster of a bad guy behind it all if you're gonna redeem them anyway? Why not just have the more redeemable well meaning antagonist the one involved so they can do their arc?

That's honestly one of the major issues with the anime. They seem close to have a complex backstory or character. Then they pull the plug last minute and make the conflict so simple. Lysandre is another example, they revealed his backstory at the end was that he helped people, they got "greedy" and he wanted to commit mass genocide. Overreacting much? Lol

It's also weird because he had a somewhat interesting point about wanting to get rid of Pokemon as they would always be the tools for humans. But like always the anime pulled the plug. All ash says is just "I love this world with people and pokemon" and the anime and other gym leaders treat this like it's some impressive point. Like what??

I appreciate that the aether conflict still gave enough for conflict between Lillie and lusamine. But man the whole "I hate you" speech just didn't hit as much.

Honestly regarding your Lillie nihelego point. I kinda wish the anime can be clear if pokemon can be evil or not. And if they can, what do you do, arrest them? Like they want to treat pokemon having a different morality wavelength, but that's a lie because of many cases like the evil malamar

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

XY from what I remember started off okay, but after the Pokemon evolved they barely appeared besides their duties. Any group shots were barely animated because the art style was too detailed.


Also after a while of ambivalence I'm just gonna say this one:

The Aether family backstory is HORRENDOUS for utilising 'villains' as the pivot for all their trauma. And it's even worse for letting said villains get off the hook for it.

Like the reason for Lillie's trauma was because Faba was messing around with the Ultra Space portal and erased her memories. This alone barely works since it relies on NO ONE, not even Gladion questioning what happened, but then Faba is just let off with a slap on the wrist.

Same deal happened with Mohn. Sure, the Nihilego saved him, but it also basically kept him hostage and intentionally tried to stop him regaining his memories and rejoining his family, even going so far as to try snuff them out when they finally found him. I get Pokemon work on a different mindwave from humans (Rapooh trying to use Thief on Acerola to make her his friend for example) but this thing has basically acted like a horror story mastermind and is the deliberate reason the Aethers have never seen their father for years, you wouldn't think they'd welcome it with open arms.

It's worse because these were series-long storylines they had PLENTY of time and reference to think through. What if Lusamine herself was responsible for the botched experiment Lillie got caught in and chose to erase her memories out of mercy, giving more weight to their feud and adding a tint of her moral ambiguity from the games? (You could even keep Faba's involvement from that point after since he would likely just think he was maintaining her intent.) Or the Nihilego had indeed brought Mohn back but just replicated what it best thought was his family without knowing how or if it could reuinite them (which likely would have been a simpler way about it anyway). Well meaning but misguided actions without malicious hard-to-forgive intent.

To quote some guy I don't remember where they appeared from, they had a million different ways to go about this, why did they pick the worst one???

No one even cares that Faba did what he did now. Guy should be rotting in jail for endangering a minor. Or atleast fired.

 

[Gingertail24]

No one even cares that Faba did what he did now. Guy should be rotting in jail for endangering a minor. Or atleast fired.

Yup, lusamine has no qualms with faba near her daughter for some reason

 

[Doctor Mal]

I used to be much more critical of the writing by the staff. What seemed like an obvious narrative choice for an episode, episode arc, or character often ended up being simplified or overlooked. Moreover, I think certain depictions and messages probably shouldn't be overthought (i.e., seemingly sexist connotations when Serena said all girls should maintain their appearances). Over time, I find it best to just enjoy the show at face value, with only basic expectations for any logical or complex writing.

But to answer the prompt, off the top of my head:

* Misty should have been given more things to do during the Johto series
* Ash versus Tyson should have been the Hoenn League semifinals
* Similarly, Ash versus Paul should have been the Sinnoh League semifinals, and Ash versus Tobias the finals
* Ash being nerfed in BW. Ash should have never lost to Cameron. Basically, Ash's characterization and skill in XY should have happened in BW to continue/maintain the progression
* Ash losing to Alain in the Kalos League finals

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

Yup, lusamine has no qualms with faba near her daughter for some reason

This guy is the reason my daughter nearly died and my family is shattered. Best to make sure he stays close to my family and daughter.

All that money is probably inherited because no way these dum dumbs manage a company by themselves

 

[DatsRight]

That's honestly one of the major issues with the anime. They seem close to have a complex backstory or character. Then they pull the plug last minute and make the conflict so simple. Lysandre is another example, they revealed his backstory at the end was that he helped people, they got "greedy" and he wanted to commit mass genocide. Overreacting much? Lol

It's also weird because he had a somewhat interesting point about wanting to get rid of Pokemon as they would always be the tools for humans. But like always the anime pulled the plug. All ash says is just "I love this world with people and pokemon" and the anime and other gym leaders treat this like it's some impressive point. Like what??

I appreciate that the aether conflict still gave enough for conflict between Lillie and lusamine. But man the whole "I hate you" speech just didn't hit as much.

Honestly regarding your Lillie nihelego point. I kinda wish the anime can be clear if pokemon can be evil or not. And if they can, what do you do, arrest them? Like they want to treat pokemon having a different morality wavelength, but that's a lie because of many cases like the evil malamar

Yeah, by the XY era it was completely lethargic, they couldn't even do a basic moral or development without a bad guy like TR butting in. It made the heroes feel rather flat and like they weren't really given any real personal challenges besides ambition despite the narrative trying to tell you they were trying real hard to get out of their comfort zone.

I tend to give SM more slack because they at least advanced to the point of doing simple storytelling without a bad guy a lot of the time (the Rotom Dex leaving episode is kinda wonky too, but I'll give them credit for TRYING a parable with Ash and him actually coming to a realization on his own).

It's weird because SM ironically might be the nearest to forcing an unsure streak out of Ash that is given complex situations which he realises he can't blank or give a simple answer for. (eg. Gladion actually questioning his 'chosen one' shtick, the 'And THEN what?' moment concerning winning the league) If it wasn't for the random cheap fix of Faba I'd say the AF arc was ALMOST a good character driven arc, if absurdly rushed.

 

[Gingertail24]

Yeah, by the XY era it was completely lethargic, they couldn't even do a basic moral or development without a bad guy like TR butting in. It made the heroes feel rather flat and like they weren't really given any real personal challenges besides ambition despite the narrative trying to tell you they were trying real hard to get out of their comfort zone.

I tend to give SM more slack because they at least advanced to the point of doing simple storytelling without a bad guy a lot of the time (the Rotom Dex leaving episode is kinda wonky too, but I'll give them credit for TRYING a parable with Ash and him actually coming to a realization on his own).

It's weird because SM ironically might be the nearest to forcing an unsure streak out of Ash that is given complex situations which he realises he can't blank or give a simple answer for. (eg. Gladion actually questioning his 'chosen one' shtick, the 'And THEN what?' moment concerning winning the league) If it wasn't for the random cheap fix of Faba I'd say the AF arc was ALMOST a good character driven arc, if absurdly rushed.

Honestly that's what bothered me about the Alain betrayal reveal. Yes granted it wasn't on purpose, but ash didn't really seem to care or react much when Alain betrayed him, niether did the others. Just generic speech to Alain. Guarantee if Alain was a villain and decided to turn good, like fabaz they would have the same boring reaction to it. Makes me wonder why do the whole big reveal of alian betrayal if the character don't seem to care. Not saying they should crucify him, but no one is a little mad at him?

I mean the gladion thing, he still gave an blank answer "let's have a battle". Granted I'm not sure how else he was supposed to answer that question, but it was still a simple ash answer.

With the XY thing, I think the issue is that the show, not just XY tho, never gives the characters personality flaws or whatever. Like they have flaws but it's not something like being selfish, judgmental, etc where they can have interesting conflicts with villains or each other. Characters rarely have inner conflicts. So if someone like Alain or faba betrays them, there just too nice to not easily forgive

 

[Akkipeddi]

Honestly that's what bothered me about the Alain betrayal reveal. Yes granted it wasn't on purpose, but ash didn't really seem to care or react much when Alain betrayed him, niether did the others. Just generic speech to Alain. Guarantee if Alain was a villain and decided to turn good, like fabaz they would have the same boring reaction to it. Makes me wonder why do the whole big reveal of alian betrayal if the character don't seem to care. Not saying they should crucify him, but no one is a little mad at him?

I mean the gladion thing, he still gave an blank answer "let's have a battle". Granted I'm not sure how else he was supposed to answer that question, but it was still a simple ash answer.

With the XY thing, I think the issue is that the show, not just XY tho, never gives the characters personality flaws or whatever. Like they have flaws but it's not something like being selfish, judgmental, etc where they can have interesting conflicts with villains or each other. Characters rarely have inner conflicts. So if someone like Alain or faba betrays them, there just too nice to not easily forgive

In general it's an issue in a lot of shounen series. Their reaction to Alain and Faba (though as far as the AF arc itself is concerned, that's another story) is still nothing compared to the ridiculously infamous "coolest guy" comment by Naruto about Obito

 

[Bortgreen]

Villains in this anime are either completely forgiven or literally desintegrated on-screen

 

[DatsRight]

I think it's also the fact that they end up feeling kinda shoehorned in as well. They are blatantly there as a quickly thought out plot device.

Team Rocket are the most recurrent and obvious examples (though they were at least self aware about it in the OS), but it sticks out that XY-JN has been doing it for long running backstories that they surely had tons of time to think up something for.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Villains in this anime are either completely forgiven or literally desintegrated on-screen

Lysandre got a TRio-exit, though. I still remember the god awful way he just vanished, like the budget didn't allow for more.

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

Villains in this anime are either completely forgiven or literally desintegrated on-screen

Unless they're Team Rocket