I feel he was an okay catalyst for Rowlet's development, even if he only got two instances.
He definitely should have appeared more though, or at least got some sort of redemption after his cruel loss.
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What are some unpopular thoughts on the Rivals?
- Thread starter MunchMunch
- Start date
He definitely should have appeared more though, or at least got some sort of redemption after his cruel loss.
Blastmaster
Well-Known Member
I feel like I only like Sawyer less as time goes on. He's a concept that sounds unique on paper but in practice, it shows how hard it is to make an underdog rival interesting when they're not just comic relief. I guess it's like, do I root for Ash, even though he always wins? Or do I root for Sawyer, even though he's the opponent? There doesn't seem to be much reason to care about Sawyer himself. He doesn't change in personality because he was already friendly and he's a minor obstacle at best in terms of strength.
Plus he shares the same problem I have with a bunch of XY characters in that the show basically validates him for idolizing Ash. Instead of having him grow to treat Ash as an equal, he doubts his hero while he's in a slump only to realize "Oh never mind, he really was just that great all along." Don't care for all that character shilling either.
Plus he shares the same problem I have with a bunch of XY characters in that the show basically validates him for idolizing Ash. Instead of having him grow to treat Ash as an equal, he doubts his hero while he's in a slump only to realize "Oh never mind, he really was just that great all along." Don't care for all that character shilling either.
Ehhh I wouldn't go that far. You're entitled to your opinion and all that, but the fact that the anime's two most iconic jerk rivals either have returned or are returning soon kinda proves the show isn't ashamed of them. Honestly I'm pretty sure the real reason they stepped away from jerks was just because Trip was as hated as he was.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Alain is not an actual rival.Ash's goal is to become a Pokemon Master which included winning at the pokemon league.Alain's goal is different from Ash's because he wanted to become the strongest Mega Evolution trainer.So this all means that they aren't competing for the same thing nor is there any conflict between the two.I'd go as far as to say Trip was a better rival,the only problem with him was he was paired up with a trainer that was already experienced and faced many formidable opponents at gyms/leagues/battle frontier facilities.But at least with Trip there was conflict between him and Ash and the biggest selling point was Unova vs the Boonies Kanto.
Like I said before in the past Alain's MCX was just a sparring partner for Ash's Greninja,there was no rivalry going on between Ash & Alain.If I were to count Alain as a rival I'd put him in the "league rival" category with trainers like Tyson/Harrison/Virgil.Otherwise he was just a roadblock like Tobias who was pulled out of the Mega Evolution Specials to ruin Ash's chances of winning.
BONUS: I don't have a problem with Alain beating Ash at the Kalos League
Like I said before in the past Alain's MCX was just a sparring partner for Ash's Greninja,there was no rivalry going on between Ash & Alain.If I were to count Alain as a rival I'd put him in the "league rival" category with trainers like Tyson/Harrison/Virgil.Otherwise he was just a roadblock like Tobias who was pulled out of the Mega Evolution Specials to ruin Ash's chances of winning.
BONUS: I don't have a problem with Alain beating Ash at the Kalos League
Zoey wasn't that bad. A lot of people called her all kinds of names early in the Sinnoh arc because she told Ash off for competing in Contests and Gyms at the same time. Sure it was none of her business but the fact that some people didn't like her but still liked Paul's mean ass says a lot lol.
Gingertail24
Well-Known Member
With Paul, I think it's the case where people like the character than the actual person themselves. Like saying you like a villain
Ryker101
Well-Known Member
I think Sawyer is better than Alain, not only cause Ash battled him more but they had a more interesting dynamic. After Ash was always trying to catch up to the likes of Gary and Paul it was refreshing how they flipped the script and made him the dominant one here. Seeing Sawyer briefly surpass him also played into Ash Greninja’s development nicely. Their league match was better than Alain’s, loved how Sawyer’s mons had specific strategies to counter Ashs team
Alain was also kinda boring imo, felt needlessly edgy and unstoppable. Not to mention the league loss. Feel like everything they tried to do with him, Gladion did it better
Alain was also kinda boring imo, felt needlessly edgy and unstoppable. Not to mention the league loss. Feel like everything they tried to do with him, Gladion did it better
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Alain stopped being interesting after Mega Evolution special 3 imo, where they had an amazing opportunity to make him even better but complete screwed up his arc in the 4th special and then the contrived stuff in XYZ
Xuxuba
Well-Known Member
I feel like people think Sawyer was a complete noob when we first saw him, but i do think he had a bit more experience than we give him credit for, as he did travel Hoenn for a bit and even got badges from both regions. Granted he was still pretty much Ash's "apprentice", but that had more to do with Ash having more experience than Sawyer having none.
I find that his personality and growth made him a really endearing and interesting character to watch, but that these aspects of him get often overlooked compared to how his battle was nicely animated.
As for Barry, he might not have been much of a threat (like, at all), but i found him really funny and not annoying at all.
Also, i think Conway was a better rival than a lot of the main rivals Ash had in this show, despite them not giving him much focus. I wish the show had more cunning characters like him.
I truly like Gary as a character but i didn't think his battles with Ash were all that great.
Gladion didn't really feel unique to me and the fact that we didn't often see him battling other characters besides Ash makes it really hard to attest how strong he actually was, compared to Alain whom we often saw going against legendaries and E4 members (therefore, he felt as a way bigger threat), tho i do think both of them were unnecessarily edgy sometimes. Paul could be unnecessarily edgy too but at least that was often played as a joke, which made wachting him feel less boring (tho i do have my grips with them not having him show a *little bit* more humanity as i think that would make him feel less one-dimensional).
I find that his personality and growth made him a really endearing and interesting character to watch, but that these aspects of him get often overlooked compared to how his battle was nicely animated.
As for Barry, he might not have been much of a threat (like, at all), but i found him really funny and not annoying at all.
Also, i think Conway was a better rival than a lot of the main rivals Ash had in this show, despite them not giving him much focus. I wish the show had more cunning characters like him.
I truly like Gary as a character but i didn't think his battles with Ash were all that great.
Gladion didn't really feel unique to me and the fact that we didn't often see him battling other characters besides Ash makes it really hard to attest how strong he actually was, compared to Alain whom we often saw going against legendaries and E4 members (therefore, he felt as a way bigger threat), tho i do think both of them were unnecessarily edgy sometimes. Paul could be unnecessarily edgy too but at least that was often played as a joke, which made wachting him feel less boring (tho i do have my grips with them not having him show a *little bit* more humanity as i think that would make him feel less one-dimensional).
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SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
He literally abused Chimchar.....
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
Gingertail24
Well-Known Member
I mean his own pokemon didn't seem to have a problem with it (minus chimchar ). I think my favorite aspect of their rivalry is that the show never showed that ash method was necessarily better than Paul or that Paul was completely in the wrong.
It was just showing that their are two valid ways to train pokemon. It just depends on the pokemon moreso than the training method
Although the whole "electrocute an exhausted chimchar to wake it up" was pretty messed up
satopi
Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
I was halfway joking but I do believe that Paul, for the most part, did nothing wrong.
Paul gave Chimchar a way out and didn’t force him to stay. When he saw he wasn’t equipped to handle the type of guts it takes to stay on his team, he released him. Paul was upfront with how he thought and that was his vision on how to become the strongest Trainer.
Chimchar wasn’t the right fit to handle Paul’s methods of unleashing his full potential of power. Which is why Paul released him. He had a rough, militant training and thought this was what was best for HIS Pokémon for them to thrive in battle. His way of thinking was pragmatic which was a nice take against the idealistic thinking that Ash had.
Paul gave Chimchar a way out and didn’t force him to stay. When he saw he wasn’t equipped to handle the type of guts it takes to stay on his team, he released him. Paul was upfront with how he thought and that was his vision on how to become the strongest Trainer.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
And that's gotta be the biggest reason for why there were a big chunk of the fanbase that hated him to the point of treating him as big of an antagonist as J and Team Galactic but I think that's died down a bit over the years.
I mean, Ash and co did the same thing to wake up Meowth in that dream thief filler, and that was when they thought Meowth was their friend.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
That still doesn't make his treatment good, heck in the Zangoose episode Chimchar literally has PTSD with his time with Paul compared to how Ash treated him to the point it started crying
Yeah no, Paul was too callous towards him to the point of even feeding it in a mean manner as we saw in Chimchar's flashbacks. Seeing Pokemon for how strong they are in battle and not caring about their personal feelings were wrong and Paul was wrong to do that, which is why he even lessens down and thanks his pokemon after Ash humbles him. I still wish he got some sort of punishment for his treatment towards Chimchar tho rather than just being said 'he has a different style'
Leonhart
Imagineer
I didn't hate her myself, although I think her aloof personality is what made her unpopular in DP. Comparing Nozomi to other Contest rivals, Shuu was sort of cold as well in AG, but his character probably wasn't as unpopular due to his interactions with Haruka having semi-romantic undertones.
Spider-Phoenix
#ChespinGang
Sawyer is my favorite rival.
- Sure, people tend to say Gary and Paul are better and while I do agree Paul is a better rival in the sense of embodying the meaning of rivalry and Gary has an edge duo being the one able to really push Ash buttons (at least until recently), I still can't help but like Sawyer more than both haha
- I don't really hate Zoey and I like a more friendly rival for a change but I didn't like stuff he pulled like meddling on how Ash and Dawn deal with their careers (aka the whole "either do battles or contests™")
- Sure, people tend to say Gary and Paul are better and while I do agree Paul is a better rival in the sense of embodying the meaning of rivalry and Gary has an edge duo being the one able to really push Ash buttons (at least until recently), I still can't help but like Sawyer more than both haha
- I don't really hate Zoey and I like a more friendly rival for a change but I didn't like stuff he pulled like meddling on how Ash and Dawn deal with their careers (aka the whole "either do battles or contests™")