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What are the things/moments in the anime that you think are overhated?

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Cilan was the perfect balance in the group involving Ash & Iris,he was mature,competent and wasn't annoying.I thought he played his role well,I'd have him just behind Brock as far as male companions go.He beat not only his own rival Burgundy but also beat Ash's main rival Trip at the Club Battle Tournament.

The AG series particularly during Hoenn,that part of the series gets little to no love compared to the others which is why it's always been one of if not the most underrated series.People claim to like AG but only seem to praise the Battle Frontier.Ash during the Hoenn arc showed maturity and took his role as a trainer more seriously but still had traits from back in OS which was the perfect blend for me,Veronica Taylor still voicing Ash was also a bonus.The openings songs in both english and japanese are good.

Ash's team was really good considering he didn't have a true ace,it looked like it was going to be Grovyle but Swellow and then later on Glalie carried their own weight.Ash took this team all the way to the Top 8 in a league that had 256 trainers in the qualifying rounds,he came so close to defeating Hoenn League Champion.

Ash didn't have a main rival but as an alternative we got Drew & Harley who were great rivals for May and one of the best rivals in entire series period.

The Liza & Tate/Wattson gym battles were meh but there were others that were actually good.

  • Vs Juan
  • Vs Norman
  • Vs Winona
  • Vs Brawly
 

Applecorp

Well-Known Member
Iris. Even to this day her name triggers so many people and places like the Pokemon anime section of 4chan make it a daily ritual to bash her for one reason or another.

Goh has reached almost Iris levels of hatred too but in his case the hate is a little different because most people just hate that he's eclipsed Ash while Iris haters mainly think she was annoying to the point where they make exaggerated remarks i.e. that she was a bully or an abuser. It's dumb.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Iris. Even to this day her name triggers so many people and places like the Pokemon anime section of 4chan make it a daily ritual to bash her for one reason or another.
We never gonna be free
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I remember seeing racism attacks against Iris when she was first introduced, because how dare a different coloured heroine be there instead of the usual white ones. Then those same people tried to claim "we arent racist, I just want pretty pokegirls" which was opening another can of worms lol

Recently, thankfully I rarely see any racist attacks against Iris or Kiawe and Goh for that matter, which is nice (although transphobic attacks against Goh still happened during the second year of JN, which is freaking nonsencial considering Goh isnt even trans)

Iris criticism has mainly withered down anyway, and I think its not just because she had that glow up in JN, its two reasons:
1) The its just a kid remark doesnt sting the sensitives anymore because Ash wasnt resetted again and continues growing
2) Axew fully evolved

I feel these two factors are more responsible for the Iris hate dying out than her arc as a pokemon trainer being course corrected
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I remember seeing racism attacks against Iris when she was first introduced, because how dare a different coloured heroine be there instead of the usual white ones. Then those same people tried to claim "we arent racist, I just want pretty pokegirls" which was opening another can of worms lol

Recently, thankfully I rarely see any racist attacks against Iris or Kiawe and Goh for that matter, which is nice (although transphobic attacks against Goh still happened during the second year of JN, which is freaking nonsencial considering Goh isnt even trans)

Iris criticism has mainly withered down anyway, and I think its not just because she had that glow up in JN, its two reasons:
1) The its just a kid remark doesnt sting the sensitives anymore because Ash wasnt resetted again and continues growing
2) Axew fully evolved

I feel these two factors are more responsible for the Iris hate dying out than her arc as a pokemon trainer being course corrected








Perfectly explains everything.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I do agree with what he is saying, but again I feel that it was more evident in the past with BW starting and when XY started and people rejoiced Iris was gone. Im not saying there are zero racist attacks against her to this date, but I hardly see any anymore compared to back then, which at the very least is nice to let the racists know their POVs wont be as welcome as Iris in general has become more widely beloved thanks to JN
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I do agree with what he is saying, but again I feel that it was more evident in the past with BW starting and when XY started and people rejoiced Iris was gone. Im not saying there are zero racist attacks against her to this date, but I hardly see any anymore compared to back then, which at the very least is nice to let the racists know their POVs wont be as welcome as Iris in general has become more widely beloved thanks to JN
Probably because people are more socially aware now but characters like Misty and Paul definitely do not get the same energy as Iris despite being more explicitly rude towards Ash than others.

I think what the poster was getting at is that essentially people are less forgiving of Iris flaws because of other circumstances than other characters subconsciously. Although I’m not the best person to know about this, it makes sense.

So not explicitly racist but people not understanding internal bias and when this is brought up it’s dismissed because she isn’t outwardly called slurs which is surface level.

No matter how much people would like to ignore race (which is another conversation) you can’t escape from it and it plays at part in all factors even fictional

Again not the best person to provide discourse in this though.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Probably because people are more socially aware now but characters like Misty and Paul definitely do not get the same energy as Iris despite being more explicitly rude towards Ash than others.

I think what the poster was getting at is that essentially people are less forgiven of Iris flaws because of other circumstances than other characters subconsciously. Although I’m not the best person to know about this, it makes sense.

So not explicitly racist but not understanding internal bias and when this is brought up it’s dismissed because she isn’t outwardly called slurs which is surface level.

Again not the best person
Yeah having a problem with Iris but not Misty for the same things was pure nostalgia drug and blatant favouritism for a variety of reasons
Heck take away Iris's glowup in JN and Misty's glowup in AG and SM
Iris in BW is so much of a better character with a better arc than Misty in the entirety of OS

Also, people claim Misty was okay because Ash would fire back, but in BW Ash would still fire back lol, people need to rewatch. Sure the intensity of Ash firing back was less, but so were Iris's aggressions compared to Misty, yet the intensity of Iris hatred was so much more
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Yeah having a problem with Iris but not Misty for the same things was pure nostalgia drug and blatant favouritism for a variety of reasons
Heck take away Iris's glowup in JN and Misty's glowup in AG and SM
Iris in BW is so much of a better character with a better arc than Misty in the entirety of OS

Also, people claim Misty was okay because Ash would fire back, but in BW Ash would still fire back lol, people need to rewatch. Sure the intensity of Ash firing back was less, but so were Iris's aggressions compared to Misty, yet the intensity of Iris hatred was so much more
Exactly and at some point you’re forced to assume other factors are at play here despite people preferring not to have this conversation.

At first it might come across as just simple dislike but some of these people have pure hatred towards me this character.

The constant need to uplift other characters like Misty (or even Serena sorry) but downgrade everything Iris does is suspicious at best but let’s not even get into that conversation.

You have people wishing Hilda was in Iris place and it’s like why? You know nothing about this character (because she’s a PC) so what makes you think she’d be a better character?

Wether she’s a darker Asian, indigenous or just plain black (honestly don’t know since the anime or games never gave indication) acknowledging her being a darker tone heroine should be discussed especially with the original comments going on during BW.

And wether you’re a POC or not part of being a good person is noticing micro aggression and doing the work to catch it. Regardless I’m glad this discourse is being had amongst the fandom
 
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Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Exactly and at some point you’re forced to assume other factors are at play here despite people preferring not to have this conversation.

At first it might come across as just simple dislike but some of these people have pure hatred towards me this character.

The constant need to uplift other characters like Misty (or even Serena sorry) but downgrade everything Iris does is suspicious at best but let’s not even get into that conversation.

You have people wishing Hilda was in Iris place and it’s like why? You know nothing about this character (because she’s a PC) so what makes you think she’d be a better character?

And wether you’re a POC or not part of being a good person is noticing micro aggression and doing the work to catch it. Regardless I’m glad this discourse is being had amongst the fandom
I would have taken Hilda as the female lead and Iris as a third wheel or Hilda as the main character replacing Ash with Iris as the co-protagonist. I could have lived without Cilan in the main cast Lol.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I would have taken Hilda as the female lead and Iris as a third wheel or Hilda as the main character replacing Ash with Iris as the co-protagonist. I could have lived without Cilan in the main cast Lol.
In all honesty that’s fine, I think they’d run into the same issues with Serena and most likely try and create an uninteresting goal because they don’t have a basis to occupy time. Pokémon musicals weren’t strong enough in the games to adapt into the anime and neither was the acting thing in BW2.

Imo they made the right decision
 

PaperCutVictim

Well-Known Member
- Ash vs Alain. It's not like Ash-Greninja went down to a Torchic using baby's first Ember. Alain's Mega Charizard X was shown to be an absolute beast, and while Ash-Greninja did not seal the deal on the battle, that was the closest anyone in the entire tournament got to making that Charizard bleed. I felt it was much in the same vein as Ash taking out 2 of Tobias' pokemon in Sinnoh, when no one in the entire tournament had been able to even take out his Darkrai. The battle overall was great. Talonflame vs Unfezant was one of the most exciting aerial battles in the series, MVPikachu put on one of his most beastly performances ever, Hawlucha vs Weavile was short but a lot of fun to watch, and Ash-Greninja vs MCX was actually one hell of a clash. Noivern was not able to collect a much-needed win, but until its wing got clipped by Ice Beam, it was actually doing quite well, especially considering it's the baby of the team and had not fought in many battles. Using Supersonic to see through Double Team was a good feat. I... can't say anything for Goodra though. RIP. Damn, I wish my Guillotines landed that reliably!

- Ash and Pikachu in general, but I'll save it just because it's really hard to tell how the majority feels about them. I really feel like at worst, the love and hate is split down the middle, but the people that hate them really, really hate them, to an almost comical degree.

- I was going to make separate entries for various aspects of BW, but I'm just going to throw them all under the same umbrella. There is way too much stuff that is overhated in BW. Iris, Cilan, the League, Ash's pokemon, Ash, Pikachu, the gyms, etc. Everything was either not that bad at worst, or actually even quite good. Iris actually is very lovable, and Cilan's antics are fantastic. Ash's BW team suffered from too many of them and not enough time to go around, but the ones we got to see often were lovable. Also, the JP openings for BW have my vote as being among the best in the series. Best Wishes! alone is an amazing track that really captures the feeling of setting off on a new adventure, plus changing the opening bit by bit as new pokemon were identified was a nice touch. Sure as hell beats just spoiling entire plot points or evolutions in the opening credits... Just saying.

- On that same note, SM in general. It was a nice change of pace, the characters were entertaining, and the Alola League was a perfectly fine league. Ash vs Gladion was a nice rivalry, and their battle at the Alola League was enjoyable. And of course, Ash vs Kukui was fantastic. Ash's Alola team was great fun too, even if they weren't whole for... well... much of the series. We got to know the pokemon as characters with their own quirks and personalities, instead of battle bots or captures made for checkmarking "okay, X character caught Y pokemon". The companions at the school were great, even TRio was entertaining with the Bewear gag honestly being one of the best running gags in the series. I liked the arcs too. Sure, there was wasted potential at times, but overall, I liked them. SM is a solid series.

- Serena. I think it's fine to dislike her, but the hate on her is pretty overblown. Yeah, okay, I think Dawn was a better girl companion too, doesn't mean I think Serena's terrible; actually I really liked her too, Amourshipping or no. Granted, I think she falls under the same umbrella as Ash and Pikachu. Clearly she is popular, but her hatedom really hates her, and is extremely vocal about it.

- Things in the Pokemon world that don't involve battling (i.e. Showcases). It's not that much of a stretch to think there are (lots of) pokemon in the world that want to live among humans and do things with their trainers, but don't want to fight. We probably have a much more biased take since that's effectively all you do in the Pokemon games, but I really feel like in the Pokemon world itself as a living breathing world, probably a very large number of pokemon don't want to battle and enjoy more of performing for audiences, or competing in races, or just being a beloved family pet. Hm, now I'm trying to imagine a Gyarados with a jolly nature that just wants to be a cherished family pet, despite how scary it looks. That's actually kind of cute to imagine.

- Mallow, particularly the fact she's not battle-oriented, wants to be a Trial Captain, etc. Anime!Mallow wants to make people smile when they eat her food, wants to make her family's restaurant beloved through Alola, and... that's okay. I'm not a professional chef myself, but I do understand the fulfillment from seeing people enjoy the food I prepare, so maybe that's why I'm sympathetic. Plus I felt her character was enough to make her enjoyable, and her focus episodes were quite good, in my opinion.

- Screw it, I'm making a section for Iris anyway. Iris was great. Her teasing of Ash actually was pretty cute, she may not have been the kind of battle girl people were looking for, but she grew into a respectable battler (and hey, she's the champion of Unova now so... good job, Iris!), and she did have a goal in mind. She had great chemistry with Ash, and she and Cilan bounced off each other fantastically too. Iris is completely undeserving of her hatedom.
 
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Trillion

Well-Known Member
the fact that ash didn't catch sobble. it took until 2022 for people to finally get over it. i guess i'm the only that didn't think that preview was foreshadowing ash catching it. i always thought that was a stretch
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
XY and SM's portrayal of Ash especially when disliking them is conveyed as some "hot take"
Wanted to come back to this after being in the middle of a XY rewatch and I have to say the "Ash is being worshipped in XY" criticisms are so overblown. Maybe I'll change my mind once I'm at XYZ but it seems like the issue is more lack of tension between the main/supporting cast (since mostly everyone is friendly without much banter) and not that Ash is being treated as some god.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Wanted to come back to this after being in the middle of a XY rewatch and I have to say the "Ash is being worshipped in XY" criticisms are so overblown. Maybe I'll change my mind once I'm at XYZ but it seems like the issue is more lack of tension between the main/supporting cast (since mostly everyone is friendly without much banter) and not that Ash is being treated as some god.
Yeah agreed, when people talk about most of XY's problems it really stems from XYZ imo
The first two XY seasons were absolutely golden, it had the quirks still present with XY's style
I do still think that Ash was boring though in XY personality wise but the glorification didnt start until late XY imo
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Yeah agreed, when people talk about most of XY's problems it really stems from XYZ imo
The first two XY seasons were absolutely golden, it had the quirks still present with XY's style
I do still think that Ash was boring though in XY personality wise but the glorification didnt start until late XY imo
I'm only around the episode where Fletchling evolves so I won't say my opinion is absolute yet but he seems fine. I wouldn't say he's my favorite and I do miss his sass but I don't feel he's been surrounded by cheerleaders. We'll see though.
 
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