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What are your final thoughts on Tripokalons?

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K.N.

Well-Known Member
They make sense as a thing that would exist in the Pokemon world.

It's pretty much for this reason I never really thought that much about the whole gender role aspect of it. But I guess when you look at it from the outside, considering the show's history of having some pretty varied male characters in Contests it does make the show seem a bit regressive in that sense.

Part of me thinks they made it girls-only so it wouldn't detract from the shipping subplot, though.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
It's pretty much for this reason I never really thought that much about the whole gender role aspect of it. But I guess when you look at it from the outside, considering the show's history of having some pretty varied male characters in Contests it does make the show seem a bit regressive in that sense.

Part of me thinks they made it girls-only so it wouldn't detract from the shipping subplot, though.

That makes it even more stereotyping then. If there were any other guys at all in the showcases, serena would automatically start potentially getting involved with them just because she is a girl and can't have that since she has her school girl crush.
 

Ilikepiex7

Well-Known Member
That makes it even more stereotyping then. If there were any other guys at all in the showcases, serena would automatically start potentially getting involved with them just because she is a girl and can't have that since she has her school girl crush.
Considering how little she even reacted with her actual rivals that wouldn't of happened. If serena had any decent interaction with any of her rivals we would of had some Serena X insert rival girl here as a popular pairing
 

_Dog

Well-Known Member
There was no reason why boys had to be excluded. There could have been a Kalos King

On the contrary, there is a great reason why there are only girls--the Tripokalon is in fact a beauty competition, where the girl is the center of the competition, with her Pokémon as her essential partners when it comes to performing.

Here is the quote from an official source: "A Tripokalon is a competition where Pokémon and partners form a team and compete in terms of beauty. They are extremely popular performances in the Kalos region!"

A factor when it comes to displaying beauty is that the girl herself needs to be presentable and beautiful like her Pokémon and the performance itself. That said, and as we learned with Jessie's debut, being pretty alone will not get you Princess Keys, which is why she had just about no votes that round. It is safe to assume that voters will look at every factor in the performances themselves. Had guys been part of the competition than it simply would not be applicable to compare a guy's look to a girl's look. Both genders are measured differently when it comes to beauty, so putting boys in the Showcases is like saying we should allow men to enter Miss America or Miss Universe.

You might disagree with the philosophy, but to state that there was no reason they didn't admit boys doesn't hold up. I for one, am happy with the Showcases as at the very least they didn't simply rehash contests nor give Serena a goal that focused only on one type where there was no clear way to accomplish becoming a "master" of that type.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
So we can all agree on the following points.

This was the story they wanted to tell!?

1) We already knew Serena's love for fashion in the first two episodes, why did we need to have fifty episodes dedicated to finding out what she wanted?
2) The shortest badge quest and league happened in eighty episodes. Why did this have to be in about fifty?
3) The rivals were interesting concepts. Why did they go nowhere?
4) Two episodes dedicated to the finale of a character's goal makes everything feel like an afterthought.
5) Aria was a nonentity. You didn't feel any sense of grandeur behind her. To Cynthia's credit, she at least imparted wisdom at times and was an expert on legends.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
So we can all agree on the following points.

This was the story they wanted to tell!?

1) We already knew Serena's love for fashion in the first two episodes, why did we need to have fifty episodes dedicated to finding out what she wanted?
Tripokalons only had one theme performance in ONE competition about fashion, that hardly counts.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Fashion and looking good is implicit in all the competitions based on outfits for the trainer and Pokémon.

ITS just the asthetic of them. Sinnoh also had Coordinators dress up as well, it's hardly worth calling out as something intrinsically problematic or bad

When they focus on "looking good" I thought it was obvious they meant their performances and not literally just how they look.
 
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Mew2

Team Rocket's Enemy
I was supportive of it at first but as it went on I grew to resent it. Here are it's faults.

3. Weak losses. Serena didn't lose because the others were better until Master Class. Accidents.......

And even then, her loss to Aria can be seen as controversial since many fans, especially on this forum, believe that Serena had the better performance and that Aria only won because of her built in fanbase.

7. No battles

Overall, she should have done Battle Chateaus instead. Pokemon is about BATTLES.

I couldn't agree with you more. I still don't know why the writers didn't do that. It seemed like it would have been easy to do that. Merely have several Battle Chateaus spread all around Kalos. They did that with Contests in Hoenn, so why not here with the Battle Chateau? When her saga began, I was almost certain that Serena would have done either the Battle Chateau or Sky Training like her manga counterpart.
 
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Everlasting

Everything stays.
Being a sucker for Contests and main girl related goals, it pains me to say that Showcases were poorly executed and altogether... bad.

The idea seemed great to me when it was first shown, and I was really, really expecting great things from it after the amazing and breathtaking episode we had on Serena's debut (episode XY060). The fact that a performer could promote herself through videos like PokéVision was an interesting aspect of it, and I thought maybe it could make up for the lack of battles that Showcase has over Contests. Videos/PokéVision was completely forgotten from that point on.

*sigh* The thing is, I didn't like many things from Showcases and eventually the accumulation of all these bad factors makes the whole experience less and less enjoyable as you notice them.

- It was only for girls. Gave Showcases a pretty rough start.

- Only 3 Keys to make it to the Master Class Showcase Tournament.
↳ Not only is 3 a low amount, but there never was an established transition between Rookie and Master classes and that makes me cringe every time I think about it.

- The rivals were never really fleshed out, and with that amount of "rivals", there was no way to make it more interesting with the restrictive number of episodes Serena's goal had dedicated to.
↳ "Rivals" never showed any kind of rivalry with Serena, except maybe a pinch with Shauna and Miette on her debut episode. I was hoping to get something hilariously annoying like Harley or maybe a spoiled brat like Ursula that would change their perspective on the main girl once they get defeated on the final event.
↳ Elle's position was never made grand or amazing. They didn't show how being a Kalos Queen would make you a public figure, which is something Yashio seemed to put a lot of emphasis on.

- Unfortunately, the appeals rapidly became redundant and repetitive.
↳ This problem could've been helped by giving Serena's Pokémon new moves or letting her catch more Pokémon to extend the possible performances available.

- There was no real "hype" to it, or stress of finding out the outcome. All performances looked evenly beautiful or cliché (with some exceptions). If Serena was performing and did overall great, the Key would obviously be hers. She would either perform perfectly or she would lose due to a major problem. The final Showcase with Elle was the only one who showed Serena have some real competition for a title.

- It is not a completely original goal when you compare it with Contests.
↳ It could've been something out of there, like Rhyhorn Racing (involving Pokémon), which always makes me sad to think about it.

Nonetheless, Showcases had a few things that would make me watch them anyway:

- When Serena had to make a powerful and final performance in hopes of winning the key, DoriDori would often kick in, and I'm a complete sl*t for that song.

- Serena's appeals were amazing when they were original. I was taken away by her dancing when she first pulled it off. I am still not over her performance in XY090 *chills*.

- Serena's character was developed surprisingly well for such a lackluster goal. Her debut episode was especially moving. It made her grow a lot.

- It showed off Serena's Pokémon in a sort-of combat situation, which doesn't happen often outside of Showcases.

- Ash and the others would literally take a back seat and we would get to see Serena shine on her own. Never did we see Ash leave his seat to train his Pokémon and chip away her screentime.

It was an okay ride. Had it not been for Serena's great character, I don't think I would've judge them the same way. I'll let it fly this time, but I hope Showcases won't be the Sun & Moon's main girl's goal.
 
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CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
On the contrary, there is a great reason why there are only girls--the Tripokalon is in fact a beauty competition, where the girl is the center of the competition, with her Pokémon as her essential partners when it comes to performing.

Here is the quote from an official source: "A Tripokalon is a competition where Pokémon and partners form a team and compete in terms of beauty. They are extremely popular performances in the Kalos region!"

A factor when it comes to displaying beauty is that the girl herself needs to be presentable and beautiful like her Pokémon and the performance itself. That said, and as we learned with Jessie's debut, being pretty alone will not get you Princess Keys, which is why she had just about no votes that round. It is safe to assume that voters will look at every factor in the performances themselves. Had guys been part of the competition than it simply would not be applicable to compare a guy's look to a girl's look. Both genders are measured differently when it comes to beauty, so putting boys in the Showcases is like saying we should allow men to enter Miss America or Miss Universe.

You might disagree with the philosophy, but to state that there was no reason they didn't admit boys doesn't hold up. I for one, am happy with the Showcases as at the very least they didn't simply rehash contests nor give Serena a goal that focused only on one type where there was no clear way to accomplish becoming a "master" of that type.

This would be fine if Showcases solely judged their contestants on their feminine beauty and body figure (and even that's pushing it, seeing as males who don't mind dressing as girls do exist). But instead we got the "waifu wars / best girlz contest" where over half your score is determined by your ability to cook, clean, and dress up. And the other half is your ability to "look good" in a way that has nothing to do with the fact that the contestants were girls at all. There is no reason that showcases should be female-exclusive because the system of showcases themselves judge on criteria that isn't exclusive to females.

Part of me thinks they made it girls-only so it wouldn't detract from the shipping subplot, though.

I'm starting to believe that as well. It would've been nice if they would take Serena's character outside the shipping more seriously.
 
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Cresselia92

SM Ash = New Ash
This would be fine if Showcases solely judged their contestants on their feminine beauty and body figure (and even that's pushing it, seeing as males who don't mind dressing as girls do exist). But instead we got the "waifu wars / best girlz contest" where over half your score is determined by your ability to cook, clean, and dress up. And the other half is your ability to "look good" in a way that has nothing to do with the fact that the contestants were girls at all. There is no reason that showcases should be female-exclusive because the system of showcases themselves judge on criteria that isn't exclusive to females.

Well, we also had the quiz and the Rhyhorn herding competitions, though. Those aren't exactly "waifu-related". Sure, Serena may have gotten victory on a silver platter in the second case, but at least not all Showcases are only about beauty and girly activities. They also are about the skills and experience of the Performer, which are very important.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
Well, we also had the quiz and the Rhyhorn herding competitions, though. Those aren't exactly "waifu-related". Sure, Serena may have gotten victory on a silver platter in the second case, but at least not all Showcases are only about beauty and girly activities. They also are about the skills and experience of the Performer, which are very important.

Oh yea the one time it wasn't something not feminine, it was conveniently the one thing serena was an expert at.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
So we can all agree on the following points.

This was the story they wanted to tell!?

1) We already knew Serena's love for fashion in the first two episodes, why did we need to have fifty episodes dedicated to finding out what she wanted?
2) The shortest badge quest and league happened in eighty episodes. Why did this have to be in about fifty?
3) The rivals were interesting concepts. Why did they go nowhere?
4) Two episodes dedicated to the finale of a character's goal makes everything feel like an afterthought.
5) Aria was a nonentity. You didn't feel any sense of grandeur behind her. To Cynthia's credit, she at least imparted wisdom at times and was an expert on legends.

I disagree on all points. Simply because I have a fundamentally different way of looking at Serena's character arc.

To explain, let me just state that I look as Serena's character arc being about her finding what she wants to become as an entire arc, in which trying something out fits in that arc. Once you do that, and not just see her arc as starting at her first Tripokalon, then the entire thing becomes quite a bit more cohesive.

So. Your first and second points kinda have the same message: "why did the badge quest start late in her arc". The answer to both is in the question you pose in the first: "why did we need fifty episodes dedicated to Serena finding out what she wanted?", because in my eyes, that's her story of the region. In comparison, take DP and I'll ask you a question: Was Ash's story in DP to obtain 8 badges and win the Sinnoh League, or was Ash's story a battle between ideologies with Paul, with Chimchar being central to that argument and concluding at the League? To me, it's the second one. I pose a similar approach to Serena's arc. It wasn't just about her getting Keys and performing in the Master Class, it was about her finding what she wanted to become and the writers obviously worked on this idea with Serena attempting different things and having several episodes in where she wondered what to do and discussed this with Shauna and her mother.

As for the rivals.. As I see her arc as a story of a girl who is finding out what she wants in life, her rivals are pretty much irrelevant in terms of opposing forces. What they do is they challenge bits of her character. Shauna took her by the hand when choosing a goal, Miette had the "crush"-thing and Aria was a mirror to which she looked up to. I think Palermo meant that Serena still lacked a bit of an own identity, but I'm not sure that's what she thinks that Serena lacks compared to Aria. But if it is, then that pretty much is the icing on the cake that I'm trying to argue: Serena's trying to find what she wants to do, and in extension, who she is herself. Then Palermo comes in and: "You still miss a bit of your own identity". Makes sense no?

Aria was a pop-idol, what we saw from her fitted that biography blurb, and it's easy to see why a girl (Serena) who hasn't yet come fully to terms with who she is would look up to that kind of person.

Granted, Nene was kind of worthless.

Don't people like you ever get tired of pretending like BW did every single thing horrible?

Because I know I get tired from reading such mindless comments.

Not everything was wrong in Best Wishes: rivals getting more facetime through tournaments, Iris' development in terms of Dragon-related focus episodes showed a sense of progression towards an otherwise unquantifiable goal. But there were plenty of structural errors, among others: Cilan's development was stagnant, the general high pacing left little -if any- for proper development of many of the casts pokémon and paired with Ash having nine pokémon before the 4th gym didn't help. I can argue them pretty well if we were to take time, at least mine are not mindless comments.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I disagree on all points. Simply because I have a fundamentally different way of looking at Serena's character arc.

To explain, let me just state that I look as Serena's character arc being about her finding what she wants to become as an entire arc, in which trying something out fits in that arc. Once you do that, and not just see her arc as starting at her first Tripokalon, then the entire thing becomes quite a bit more cohesive.

So. Your first and second points kinda have the same message: "why did the badge quest start late in her arc". The answer to both is in the question you pose in the first: "why did we need fifty episodes dedicated to Serena finding out what she wanted?", because in my eyes, that's her story of the region. In comparison, take DP and I'll ask you a question: Was Ash's story in DP to obtain 8 badges and win the Sinnoh League, or was Ash's story a battle between ideologies with Paul, with Chimchar being central to that argument and concluding at the League? To me, it's the second one. I pose a similar approach to Serena's arc. It wasn't just about her getting Keys and performing in the Master Class, it was about her finding what she wanted to become and the writers obviously worked on this idea with Serena attempting different things and having several episodes in where she wondered what to do and discussed this with Shauna and her mother.

As for the rivals.. As I see her arc as a story of a girl who is finding out what she wants in life, her rivals are pretty much irrelevant in terms of opposing forces. What they do is they challenge bits of her character. Shauna took her by the hand when choosing a goal, Miette had the "crush"-thing and Aria was a mirror to which she looked up to. I think Palermo meant that Serena still lacked a bit of an own identity, but I'm not sure that's what she thinks that Serena lacks compared to Aria. But if it is, then that pretty much is the icing on the cake that I'm trying to argue: Serena's trying to find what she wants to do, and in extension, who she is herself. Then Palermo comes in and: "You still miss a bit of your own identity". Makes sense no?

Aria was a pop-idol, what we saw from her fitted that biography blurb, and it's easy to see why a girl (Serena) who hasn't yet come fully to terms with who she is would look up to that kind of person.

Granted, Nene was kind of worthless.



Not everything was wrong in Best Wishes: rivals getting more facetime through tournaments, Iris' development in terms of Dragon-related focus episodes showed a sense of progression towards an otherwise unquantifiable goal. But there were plenty of structural errors, among others: Cilan's development was stagnant, the general high pacing left little -if any- for proper development of many of the casts pokémon and paired with Ash having nine pokémon before the 4th gym didn't help. I can argue them pretty well if we were to take time, at least mine are not mindless comments.

This is a nice way to look at it but I disagree with one thing. She didn't try different things to find a goal and her finding a goal was never largely looked at until Shauna came into the picture after 40 episodes. That was the main issue with Serena for the first 40+ episodes. It would have been one thing if she was trying out all sorts of things but really of those 40 episodes she really only did two things and both would hint at showcases anyway. Her video and cooking and neither were viewed as long term goals at the time. I would have loved to have seen Serena's character truly explore looking for a goal and trying lots of different things for her first arc, but that is just not what they did with her. She was just a Ash fangirl contributing to the Ash glory season that was XY before Showcases came along.
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
They mostly consisted of Serena dancing and prancing while one of her other Pokemon jumped through Braixen's fire type attacks. Incredibly stereotypical and didn't fit the show at all. I would have preferred something like sky battles like her manga counterpart or being a racer like some people originally thought she was.

I'm glad she didn't do racing much however cuz with Fennekin as her starter pokemon, I feel that she would've been made pointless if Serena had a goal like that.
 

NatsuLian

Well-Known Member
Do they not make clear outlines for how the season should proceed? Clearly, Serena's arc, as "revolutionary" (in some ways it was) as it was, the writing was everywhere, emotional moments were botched here and there to keep interest buzzing, and the "Finding Myself" arc took too long to take into fruition. Of course, this is Pokemon, you can't expect great character writing and a thorough venture into each character but the thing is, Pokemon has shown, on multiple accounts, that it is capable of writing fantastic episodes and characters. The writers are just either really lazy or think executing the same ideas over and over again, rehashing the same old repetitive circle, and never really going anywhere with their ideas is going to work. Thus, that is what makes it really frustrating. XY started on a really high note and is going to end on a barely sustained sour one. I was immensely invested with the first few episodes, the Korrina arc, Serena's development, the Malamar plot, the great filler episodes, and Clemont and Ash's build up battle. Tripokelons, in my opinion, is such a great idea but going back to my first point, it seems like the writers themselves were conflicted with how they should have handled their very creation. You know, when you watch a series, be it a kid's show or an adult, once the story concludes, you should feel a sort of attachment and adventure with the protagonists because character development is a universal language. Although I do feel that with Serena, it could have gone a lot better. XY, I believe, is an experimental stage of the Pokemon anime and S/M should be more stable. XY tried too many different things and although that's great, sometimes, less is more.
 
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