What are your hot takes on the anime?

[DatsRight]

I think it depends on how well the gimmick is developed as well as the characters' skills without it. If a characters' progression is based TOTALLY on that gimmick or they never get spotlight without it, of course it will become cheap and kinda boring. It's why it's often good to show said gimmick is fallible, and not just in instances where the character loses.

Really though, Ash relied without gimmicks until XY, and while AshGreninja and Z Moves did get spammed a bit too often, generally there were still proper skill displays. (Really for all people complain about the Rowlet vs Decidueye battle, it's part why I liked it, they got the Z Moves over with at the start and the rest was just proper battling.)

 

[Ignition]

I don't get that either, Ash has beaten characters multiple times stronger than him with sheer strategy and passion for the past 25 years without relying on gimmicks, but then when he uses a gimmick to beat an opponent he's suddenly "gimmick reliant", "unskilled", "plot armor reliant".

I think part of it is because Ash’s infamous unorthodox strategies aren’t direct offensive moves. Something like Counter Shield isn’t going to KO something the moment it’s used but a Z Move likely is (even as someone who likes the mechanic). Not to mention a lot of these are saved for the end of a battle like a Trainer’s strongest Pokémon

 

[Leonhart]

Maybe ppl on this forum appreciate stuff like Counter Shield, but anyone outside of here finds the gimmicky stuff Ash does in battles to be polarizing.

I personally appreciate the creativity of it, but I'm still disappointed that it was essentially forgotten by the writers after DP. It was a smart, innovative strategy and should've been reused more often after Shinou. Although I can understand why non-anime viewers would find it absurd if they're only judging battles by in-game mechanics.

 

[janejane6178]

Bonnie and Max are not annoying
They are wonderful

 

[Applecorp]

I don't get that either, Ash has beaten characters multiple times stronger than him with sheer strategy and passion for the past 25 years without relying on gimmicks, but then when he uses a gimmick to beat an opponent he's suddenly "gimmick reliant", "unskilled", "plot armor reliant".

So Ash has beaten trainers with more experience than him using last minute battle tactics that he pulls straight outta his ass and you don't see how that's a gimmick...? Really?

A lot of his wins were done by him coming up with some plan based on a stray observation that he made and then he almost never uses that knowledge again in other battles. He just conveniently forgets his best ideas...

Hell the fact that the dude is so dense most of the time but is somehow smart enough to observe little details in battles doesn't even make a whole lotta sense and adds to the deus ex machina element that some people complain about.

 

[Gingertail24]

So Ash has beaten trainers with more experience than him using last minute battle tactics that he pulls straight outta his ass and you don't see how that's a gimmick...? Really?

A lot of his wins were done by him coming up with some plan based on a stray observation that he made and then he almost never uses that knowledge again in other battles. He just conveniently forgets his best ideas...

Hell the fact that the dude is so dense most of the time but is somehow smart enough to observe little details in battles doesn't even make a whole lotta sense and adds to the deus ex machina element that some people complain about.

Because each battle is different. One plan will be great for one battle and not effective for another. But yes I agree, he should be using past battle tactics. Was kinda disappointed they dropped counter shield.

Ash being dumb but smart when coming to battles I really appreciate. Being smart doesn't mean you do well in everything you do. Someone can be bad in school but excel in sports. That's basically ash

 

[Sham]

• Ash owning a Lucario honestly doesn't bother me that much in theory because it's exposure has been way less obnoxious than Eevee or Charizard's and now Dragonite's at this point
• Goh is just there. I don't have a huge amount of feelings towards him but his overall hatred that he gets at times is just.. why? I also don't care about his legendaries most likely because it's not like he's using them in a competitive manner anyway also SM kinda already broke this mold
• This has already kinda been said A LOT but I wanted to add more talking points and plus this is an overall opinion, Iris becoming Champion isn't glaring nor that weird. A character's development does not stop when they stop following Ash. If you could believe Ash could go from BW Ash to Champion than same applies here. The whole "well it wasn't her goal!!!!" well neither was the PWC with Ash. It's possible following your dreams will still using different avenues to get to them. Was becoming a Gym Leader Paul’s goal?
• Lillie's episode getting that amazing animation was warranted. It was a closing arc towards something that was teased since the middle-end of SM. It practically a SM special.
• I'm not upset with how Alain lost but instead how the pacing of the battle occured
• Chloe and Ash are friends and close and that's that on that
• Dawn's character was not "ruined" in Journeys
• Chloe's Eevee having the "you're perfect the way you are!" moment will be truly anti climatic
• Not "hot" but Horace is objectively once of the best rivals

 

[DayQuil95]

So Ash has beaten trainers with more experience than him using last minute battle tactics that he pulls straight outta his ass and you don't see how that's a gimmick...? Really?

A lot of his wins were done by him coming up with some plan based on a stray observation that he made and then he almost never uses that knowledge again in other battles. He just conveniently forgets his best ideas...

Hell the fact that the dude is so dense most of the time but is somehow smart enough to observe little details in battles doesn't even make a whole lotta sense and adds to the deus ex machina element that some people complain about.

That's a common trope about main characters in anime, the dense but battle genius protagonist that manages to overcome things and beat characters more experienced than him with creativity. Goku and Naruto are the best examples of this. Something that is a very common trope in media and that is a major part of the character is no good reasoning to complain about the character, or even label it as Deus Ex Machina in the first place.

And how is a character trait that makes sense with the franchise canon and is supported by other protagonists such as Red and Gold from Pokemon Adventures something that should be treated as a "gimmick"? Ash's strategies have been with him ever since he first stepped into the anime, and have only been improved with the 25 years of anime, some lows like in Journeys, but being consistent nonetheless.

If you're referring specifically to Journeys' treatment of Ash, then sure, I can give you a point on that. But even then, in relation to Ash's usage of gimmicks such as Z-Move and Mega Evolution to win battles, which are the main point of the discussion, is that really such a tremendous problem here? I mean, he has proved that he's strong and skilled enough to use them, alongside still applying them properly in battles, as shown over and over by SM and the usage of G-Max Gengar throughout Journeys.

 

[DatsRight]

• Ash owning a Lucario honestly doesn't bother me that much in theory because it's exposure has been way less obnoxious than Eevee or Charizard's and now Dragonite's at this point
• Goh is just there. I don't have a huge amount of feelings towards him but his overall hatred that he gets at times is just.. why? I also don't care about his legendaries most likely because it's not like he's using them in a competitive manner anyway also SM kinda already broke this mold
• This has already kinda been said A LOT but I wanted to add more talking points and plus this is an overall opinion, Iris becoming Champion isn't glaring nor that weird. A character's development does not stop when they stop following Ash. If you could believe Ash could go from BW Ash to Champion then same applies here.

Truthfully several of Journeys' ideas are things I really feel could have done with better execution, but I can at least see what they were going for.

Goh is the 'gotta catch 'em all' goal taken to its most literal tee, just, true to the anime, they've just gone straight in first time without thinking through what substance to give it beyond that, needing to add stuff to it later on.

Ash's 'classic' team I can also see their aim, all the non-Galar mon on his JN team were consistents throughout the show for Pokemon kinda out of his league, and even starting off in antagonistic roles the first few times round. We actually saw how they slowly became more and more humanized and accessable as series continued, culminating in Ash finally getting them. Still not always amazing handling, but an interesting progression of three Pokemon and their use throughout the show.

Legendaries/mythicals have a similar direction, though I think the issue there is more down to Goh's premise not really letting them get development. Shaymin and Nihilego were more interesting takes on this, if still kinda flawed. I do wonder if Articuno might have been a better choice for JN spotlight than Suicune, especially considering its similar role as a developed consistent (see Noland's Articuno), though fair enough for the Regis. Now if Goh could just let his get spotlight already.

And of course the character returns which were an obvious choice from day one, but could have done with being less fleeting and again, having more substance to them. I feel like Dawn's weren't bad but considering she hadn't as much to show off, maybe they could have replaced her in one appearance with Iris to make her own development more gratifying. The Master 8 arc really makes it feel like we should have been following her more.

 

[mehmeh1]

I never had many problems with the Johto filler, I thought it was fun to watch those episodes since the formula wasn't worn out yet imo

It's ok if you're just wanting a random episode to watch, but I can't imagine how painful it must've been week to week

 

[PCN24454]

It's ok if you're just wanting a random episode to watch, but I can't imagine how painful it must've been week to week

Not really. That’s just how tv works.

 

[DatsRight]

I feel like JN was a bad time to demote Team Rocket. Not that I mind having several episodes where the protagonists DON'T have a villain interrupting everything, but SM did that pretty well too while still letting the trio get something. JN is a culmination of so much development and progression for the show's cast, and I really feel like Team Rocket, the guys we've followed the most after Ash, should have got SOME sort of major bone throw this series to show their role hasn't just been a stagnant waste of time.

Even something like say more enemy mines or the XY 'Jeeves' episode could have worked, episodes that still demonstrate they suck at bad guys but have grown tremendously as legitimate characters (as much as they resent it). The nearest to that is the radio show episode, which is pretty good but still a filler.

 

[Gingertail24]

Koharu is a really boring character and while I agree the "evee taxi" joke can be annoying, I can't blame it due to that's how she genuinely feels sometimes

Alain is a much more well rounded character than people realize. He isn't super complex or revolutionary, but a pretty good character. People calling him "edgy" feel purposely missing the point (but I can understand the complaints if you only watched him in xyz and not the specis because I felt the same way)

The abandoned backstory is starting to feel annoying now. Just cause it feels like the staff doesn't know how to do anything nuance or interesting with it. Looking at you Gengar

The anime needs good villains. No lysandre, Giovanni, doesn't count

I don't want ash fighting Giovanni. He doesn't care about TR as a whole. He met Giovanni like twice. There is no connection or anything between them. It would feel like such a big waste

Ahs jumping after Pikachu when he falls off a cliff or something is really stupid. It's genuinely sweet, but stupid. Just put him in his PokeBall for 5 seconds then let him out. Instead of.bkrh of you dying for.no reason

Kiawe isn't a good rival. Battled ash once and we didn't even see it. Idk why people put him ahead of the likes of Stephan.

While I don't think the staff is sexist. It honestly feels that they are not having a main female rival or female battlers since iris on purpose. Yes iris is a champion, but I'm talking about actual main characters. And no bianca isn't a good excuse. She was never supposed to be taken seriously.

 

[DatsRight]

The anime needs good villains. No lysandre, Giovanni, doesn't count

They need villains that have an actual personal vendetta with the hero that isn't completely one sided. Most of the villains, even the 'threatening' ones, are just forgettable nobodies to the heroes, they blank any sort of passionate reasoning they have for their actions and the villains often just fail to challenge them on a personal level. It is often only the rivals they save for that sort of chemistry.

Weirdly SM's arcs, while still hardly top tier, are the closest to actually having some developed villain rivalries, in the form of Nihilego, Viren and Guzma, who all feel personally connected to one of the protagonists. Otherwise a villain is often just a plot device, an excuse to leave everything on bland autopilot for a while. Like you said, even TR is just a nuisance to the heroes in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Gingertail24]

They need villains that have an actual personal vendetta with the hero that isn't completely one sided. Most of the villains, even the 'threatening' ones, are just forgettable nobodies to the heroes, they blank any sort of passionate reasoning they have for their actions and the villains often just fail to challenge them on a personal level. It is often only the rivals they save for that sort of chemistry.

Weirdly SM's arcs, while still hardly top tier, are the closest to actually having some developed villain rivalries, in the form of Nihilego, Viren and Guzma, who all feel personally connected to one of the protagonists. Otherwise a villain is often just a plot device, an excuse to leave everything on bland autopilot for a while. Like you said, even TR is just a nuisance to the heroes in the grand scheme of things.

The problem is the companion and ash himself don't leave alot for the villain to do if it comes to personal vendetta. Look at faba, he basically try to erase Lillie's memory and is the reason lusamine is kidnapped, yet he is invited to a wedding

Meowth backstabbed the BW group after traveling with them for so long, yet Pikachu is the only one is pissed. Ash just says "see you later fun traveling with you". Not saying they have to try to kill the villains or anything. But if the reactions are just gonna be basically sweeping all the crap they've done under the rug, what's the point? The characters are just too nice for that

The only one I remember is kiawe who was still pissed at Biaron after he tried to still the farm. But it was played for laughs so who cares

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I love Ashs Torkoal and the slander that he and Torterra gets is unfair
Ash’s Greninja is overrated
Sceptile and Charizard (Ash’s) are stronger than Greninja
Ash’s Squirtle got done dirty

This is exactly what I wrote wtf

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I love Ashs Torkoal and the slander that he and Torterra gets is unfair
Ash’s Greninja is overrated
Sceptile and Charizard (Ash’s) are stronger than Greninja
Ash’s Squirtle got done dirty

See

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

See

Maybe it's a spambot?

 

[PCN24454]

They need villains that have an actual personal vendetta with the hero that isn't completely one sided. Most of the villains, even the 'threatening' ones, are just forgettable nobodies to the heroes, they blank any sort of passionate reasoning they have for their actions and the villains often just fail to challenge them on a personal level. It is often only the rivals they save for that sort of chemistry.

Weirdly SM's arcs, while still hardly top tier, are the closest to actually having some developed villain rivalries, in the form of Nihilego, Viren and Guzma, who all feel personally connected to one of the protagonists. Otherwise a villain is often just a plot device, an excuse to leave everything on bland autopilot for a while. Like you said, even TR is just a nuisance to the heroes in the grand scheme of things.

I prefer “plot device” to “personal vendetta” because personal vendetta villains are always too pathetic for me to take seriously.

 

[DatsRight]

I prefer “plot device” to “personal vendetta” because personal vendetta villains are always too pathetic for me to take seriously.

Well less in terms of backstory I mean, we know it's nearly always self righteous excuses, but more the actual hero/villain vendetta has some sort of personal depth to it. Like they have SOME sort of chemistry or connection that makes them more than just a generic hero fighting a generic villain.

I feel like Pikachu and Meowth are the only major cases of this and even then only during the seldom times they're alone.

Again, they manage to make several rivals feel like personal challenges for the hero and their actual character, but villains are almost always interchangable besides their threat level (and even then mostly only in the form getting easily beat down or needing plot armour to do all the work for them instead).