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What are your hot takes on the anime?

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Kazuniya

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
Sham said:
You’re trying to have an argument and it’s just not that serious.
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Actually, I'm not. You posted a hot take, and I casually replied to you why people sometimes misinterpret that scene.

Then you went on to make Dawn a part of the discussion for some unknown reason, and explain how Dawn is so much better than Serena, even though Serena crying about her first loss has absolutely no correlation to Dawn's storyline.

But sure, have it your way.
 
Pokegirl Fan~

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Kazuniya said:
A lot of people fail to take into account that this was Serena's first time partaking in something that was really important to her, finding something she really cherished after a long time. So losing RIGHT AWAY, because of a dumb reason like that, is a good reason to cry. At least if she was able to go all the way to the end of the competition, she would have probably felt much better. But being eliminated right away for a dumb reason like that stings.

Also there is a lot of room to argue Serena is responsible for the loss due to making the ribbons too long which is the reason why Fennekin ended up tripping in the first place. If the ribbons were shorter, that probably wouldn't have happened. So part of it is also Serena blaming herself.

I don't get people who say it's stupid. I genuinely don't.

A character having an emotional outburst, after bottling up their emotions for the whole day and pretending they're fine, is a very natural reaction.
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For me I find some of her wins afterwards kind of stupid since she breezed through them easily. I wanted to see a little more struggling, the same issue I have with May's contest arc early on, and I really think they should have started her showcase arc by the 20th episode at the very latest instead of almost 40 episodes in and 60 episodes to enter her first one.
 
P

pickapika

Well-Known Member
DatsRight said:
It varies, I think there's only so much leeway a character should get for being a 'jerk because another character was just as bad, they're still a jerk. Misty still had plenty individual vices that weren't developed properly, especially since Misty mostly got away with being stagnant and falling upwards while criticising Ash all the while and yet Iris was at least forced to develop and back up her bluster more often.
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The flipside is misty's motivations/set-up is signifcantly stronger. With Iris you can sort of infer certain insecurities/motivations but there's no real exploration of the source, with misty why she's doing things is well-established. Iris captializes on a weaker set up better, but misty's set-up is standout for poke-girls(or really poke characters in general).

Iris's main problem though is she's linked at the hip to BW ash. She's probably stronger/more well rounded than the vast majority of non-ash major pieces in the show(companions/rivals, ect), but it's all overshadowed by bw ash being the pokemon equivalent of sequel trilogy luke.

Brock's character gets various "wow that's just destroys him" moments(eagerly waiting for a 10 year old to turn 18 shortly after his introduction really is the peak of this), Gary just isn't given that much screen-time(though he's quite effective when he comes into play), and Paul's execution is just silly up until lake acuity(and cynthia's framing is a consistent issue), but all three have been able to ride a not-actively-breaking-the-narrative ash to signifcantly higher standing among fans
 
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Kazuniya

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
Gingertail24 said:
The scene where serna cries etc wasn't bad, but what did she take away from the particular scene.
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Again, I'm unsure why Serena was supposed to learn some big lesson. Is the scene bad because she didn't learn a lesson of some sort?

She lost due to a dumb error, bottled up her feelings when around her friends, then cried when she was by herself, then smiled again and found new determination. She finally realized what it's like to be a challenger and accepted that this is what it's like to pursue a goal. You can make the argument this loss was necessary for her to grow a little bit and reaffirm her determination to pursue Showcases.

It's a pretty simple scene. It's nothing mindblowing, especially compared to Dawn, but the way people are acting as if she had no business crying is pretty nonsensical to me.

It really comes across as severe nitpicking of a scene that is pretty easy to understand.
 
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MetaMantis

MetaMantis

Offline until Ash vs Leon
Gingertail24 said:
My point is that it shows how poorly thought out showcases were as a goal. Like I said good internals development but the stuff used for that , like the external stuff, are really lackluster.

I'm not saying the scene has to be mind-blowing. Dawn losing her first contest isn't mind-blowing itself either. But I see how much her goal connects to her failure at the particular scene

Like I said, the crying scene isn't bad at all.
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How exactly are they poorly thought out?
 
masdog

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
I agree with @Gingertail24. As much as I liked Showcases, they weren't the most consistent. The revolving talent competition of the first round felt arbitrary - like they decided that Serena would win, and then worked backwards to a competition that would suit her strengths. The Ryhorn herding was the most blatant example.

I'm not saying it's bad...but they could have done a lot better.

And Serena's rivals didn't live up to their potential. Miette, Shauna, and Aria were all interesting but never used to their full potential in or out of Showcases. And there was the girl who tried to trade for Panchem...I can't remember her name, but she wasn't really necessary.

Jessie...I mean Jesselina, was the best Showcase rival.

They definitely could have done more with Showcases. There were a lot of hooks that they didn't really take advantage of, like using Pokemon YouTube to help build Serena's fanbase (Social Media Influencer as a career wasn't really a thing in 2013 like it is now...but I could see Showcase participants using Pokemon's social media to help build a fanbase and votes). But they also needed something with more consistency than what was there. They just needed more development.
 
MetaMantis

MetaMantis

Offline until Ash vs Leon
masdog said:
Social Media Influencer as a career wasn't really a thing in 2013 like it is now...but I could see Showcase participants using Pokemon's social media to help build a fanbase and votes). But they also needed something with more consistency than what was there. They just needed more development.
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Do remember that time doesn't really exist, so it could take place whatever year you want.
 
MetaMantis

MetaMantis

Offline until Ash vs Leon
Sham said:
Do you just defend the anime for any dumb reason? He’s saying that it wasn’t exactly popularized the writers probably didn’t have enough exposure as they do now
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Lies. It's just grown bigger since then (whether that's good or bad is up for debate) but it was definitely still a big thing in 2013.

And no, I don't "defend the anime for any dumb reason". Please stop pushing this "uh you love the anime you will defend it's objectively crap decisions duh idiot simp."
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
MetaMantis said:
Lies. It's just grown bigger since then (whether that's good or bad is up for debate) but it was definitely still a big thing in 2013.

And no, I don't "defend the anime for any dumb reason". Please stop pushing this "uh you love the anime you will defend it's objectively crap decisions duh idiot simp."
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Yeah you're Scott and it's not a coincidence he hasn't made an account recently so it's not even worth it giving you attention.
 
masdog

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
MetaMantis said:
Do remember that time doesn't really exist, so it could take place whatever year you want.
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That's missing the point entirely.

The point is that I can see the writers mostly ignoring how the Pokemon world's version of social media would be important for Serena as she builds her career as a performer. Yes, social media existed in 2013 when the show was being conceived. But it wasn't anywhere near as pervasive as it is now, and most people (especially amateurs) wouldn't be able to use it to build their fanbase. They kind of hinted at it with Aria and her videos...but dropping it entirely was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the series.
 
Kazuniya

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
Gingertail24 said:
Like I said, the crying scene isn't bad at all.
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Okay so...What exactly is the point of this discussion?

This whole discussion started because Sham said Serena crying was stupid. I disagreed and explained why Serena crying made sense for her at that point of the story.

And then you people turned it into a discussion about "well Showcases weren't well thought out" and "Dawn's first loss was handled better". Like ???

I agree with you, the Showcases were far, far from perfect, but why are you construing this as if the original topic was about Showcases quality/writing? I NEVER TALKED ABOUT THAT. Go back and read the original argument. From the start, it was just about whether Serena crying made sense or not. Sham said it was stupid that Serena cried, I responded by saying it was not stupid and explained why I felt that way.

If you agreed with my original point from the start, then ???

I'm so done with this topic. I just wanted to explain why Serena crying after losing her first Showcase made sense, and then my post was intentionally misinterpreted as if I were saying "Showcases were so good!!" and then multiple of you started arguing against me that Showcases weren't that good. I wasn't even saying they were good????

Me: Serena crying actually made sense for her, and this is why I feel that way
Everyone else: Ok but listen, the Showcases were poorly thought out and they weren't as good as Dawn's story!!!
Me: ???

Whatever, enjoy your strawman discussion and making up fictional arguments to argue against. You excel at that.
 
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Krackochu

Krackochu

Well-Known Member
-_- ya know even I could've seen this becoming a xy thread.

Besides from that here's a real hot topic take. My favorite introduction episode was Max's episode that whole episode was just great.

Ash referencing how he doesn't have his pokemon.

Max constantly acting snarky and May having the most realistic problems that no other pokegirl has had like forgetting torchic's attacks. Then torchic attacking max . That was a real great episode. Best introduction to a character ever .
.
 
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