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What are your thoughts on Serena?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by mindado, Aug 10, 2016.

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  1. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ "Christina"

    It'd probably be in filler episodes where she interacts with the other characters like the first half of Dawn's arc in BW I'm guessing.
     
  2. DeepSeaDragon

    DeepSeaDragon Well-Known Member

    I wish I had more cultural context on Serena's "controversial" line. I feel like we're missing something. I could see the dub making it: "You're my goal! I'm going to look cuter for you next time I see you!" *wink*

    If the actress dubs it that way in a somewhat playful tone, that should satisfy anyone who would otherwise be offended over some anti-feminist crap. That way it will be perceived as playful flirting more than coming off as desperate to some. (Even though I still don't have a problem with it myself.)

    About Serena, I've been a fan throughout most of the series. Having unspecified direction for close to the first half felt more realistic to me. I like how she tried out other things first. I like how she broke away from what her mom did and found her own thing.

    Anyway, in short, Serena feels comparable to May, just maybe not quite as skilled. IMO, things I've stated about her before place her into a separate category from the traditional traveling companions. Hopefully the writers and producers feel the same way.
     
  3. Navin

    Navin MALDREAD

    That was the intent, but the execution was awful. She ended up having a tailor-made goal based on her interests, which were established by episode 10. There was no reason to delay till episode 40 to pick something, and then till 60 for the debut.

    In fact, if she's not staying in Kalos to be the Queen, and she's now going to do Contests, they should have just had that be the goal in the first place. Waifu Wars borrowed the Appeals from Contests already. It almost seems they didn't want to give Serena any more Pokemon since she'd have to battle with them in Contests.
     
  4. Pikachu979

    Pikachu979 Sinnoh Champion

    After watching Serena again from start to finish i can say she is a decent character. she is still my least favorite of the main females but she is not as bad as i thought she was.
     
  5. Daniel31

    Daniel31 HopingGaryReturns

    I know they write the episode months in advance like people here say, but the whole thing with Serena's goal is too weird imo. I mean I'm no expert on how they handle their business, but it almost seems like they didn't know which direction to go in with her and were just spitballing ideas waiting for the reactions to see if something sticks or not. If this was the case, then she better come back at some point because that's absolutely horrible for a character, no matter who it is. To keep on flip-flopping with her goals, really doesn't make any sense whatsoever and I wish there was an another explanation besides bad writing or poor execution.
     
  6. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ "Christina"

    Agreed. I like for Serena to come back and get better writing and to get screentime and battles without anyone interfering, especially Ash
     
  7. Xenon Blue

    Xenon Blue No Hard Feelings

    Basically. Her character didn't seem to have a direction and it almost felt like freestyle. She should have been like May and got her goal relatively early on, and an enjoyable one at that. Sorry to anyone who liked the showcases, but honestly it was a disaster that most of us (I think) wants to forget about. If she did contests instead, then I think it would have been much better. Of course then there will be complaints about "It's overdone", but it's either that or we get a watered-down version of contests.
     
  8. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ "Christina"

    Pretty much, I think it would have worked out better. One good thing about Showcases though was that it fit her character perfectly and her screentime wasn't stolen by anyone.
     
  9. DeepSeaDragon

    DeepSeaDragon Well-Known Member

    That's fair. There was definitely an unnecessary pause and poor team development.

    The good conceptual design behind her character makes me wonder why they took so long to do anything with her. Even though I'm still a fan, I can say with certainty there was some wasted potential.
     
  10. Red and Blue

    Red and Blue Well-Known Member

    Wonder how Ash would respond if she tried to kiss him again if she makes a appearance in Alola
     
  11. Soniman

    Soniman Break the Limit

    Those people exist?

    Its funny because while im also not a fan of them at worse theyre just boring a repetitive. But everyone acts like its the equivalent to eye stabbing whenever an episode aired I mean if nothing else theyyre well animated
     
  12. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ "Christina"

    Since it's a comedic series maybe he'll make one of those over exaggerated love sick facial expressions? Lol
     
  13. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    I'm just glad someone is making progress with Ash
     
  14. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I didn't mind them in concept, they just ultimately ended up repetitive in places and the setup made Serena a somewhat unsympathetic and dull character to watch with every other competitor her underdog, while they could have played on her earlier eccentricities and shown to be the one thing she could strive for. Jessie's team developed and shone more from the showcases than her team did.

    Something about Serena seemed a tad inconsistent early on, like the pre-haircut Serena is almost a completely separate entity. She was more a bit shallow and something of a snarky ditz, something you'd expect of a cliche teenage incompetent, while post-haircut Serena was more shy and moe-like and had more of a motherly sense of responsibility. Even the way they were animated made them look radically different since her earlier moments were usually far more cartoony. Granted, it might just be because I watched most of the early episodes in dub form, and her English actress makes her character feel totally different.
     
  15. Soniman

    Soniman Break the Limit

    the funniest thing ive heard all day

    yes all those countless training and development episodes wobuffet and gogurgeist recieved over braixen, cham, and sylveon. Are you sure youre not just a tad biased towards TR?
     
  16. MysticKnives

    MysticKnives Well-Known Member

    This right here is really what it is for me. I also agree with the other user about Iris. I really feel she's underrated.
     
  17. Telepek

    Telepek Member

    I really, really, really don't want to jump into the middle of the conversation and look like some kind of psychotic fan of her, but this bothers me: Why are we judging a character by the level of importance and quality of the things said character did? I mean, I agree that showcases were a poorly executed idea, it really looked that the writers either did not want to, or had no idea how to go with it, but just because they were bad, doesn't mean the characters that participated in them were bad is well.

    Part of XY and XY/Z charm [at least for me] was the fact that every character developed through the entire series, and there was actually continuity in that development. The characters had their big and significant moments, but also there were small scenes that while, well... small, had some importance, and Serena is the best example of that.

    Sure, it took her long to find her goal, but it doesn't mean that it was a wasted time. We witnessed how she stood up to her mother, how she gathered her courage to defend her ideas. But the fact that she still struggled with her life choices before, how she still wasn't sure if she's doing the right thing during those small scenes in the first sixty episodes made her a believable character that you could personally identify with.

    Ironically, those "bad contests" were the biggest source of her change. Her first loss in comparison to the previous Pokegirls [at least from what I remember, I haven't watched Hoenn and Sinnoh in a very long time, please don't bite me :c], actually left it's mark.
    The hair cutting scene from XY60 is and will be forever one of the most emotional and gutwrenching moment in the entire history of Pokemon, I'll even go on a limb and compare it to the scene from the first movie where Ash turned into stone - I cried like a baby during both scenes, and I turned 25 this year.

    One of the other things that the creators deserve to be praised for is the portrayal how finding her life goal combined with the support from Ash and others influenced her, how she stepped out of the shadows, gained confidence and found enjoyment in what she was doing. The Serena from the first ten episodes is a completely different girl than from the last ten episodes. The change is there.

    When it comes to the shipping - sure, it's one sided [at least for now, you never know] but you can't deny that it's there. It's there, there is actually evidence of her love for Ash, it's not based on fans wishful thinking or second guessing characters motives or decisions. Also, whatever you like it or not - it is unique, it is unique in a good way. It doesn't overshadow her personal goals at all, she's not a love crazed teenage girl who can't stop thinking about Ash. She simply loves him and it's just another thing that you are cheering her for. After what she went through, after her development and change, getting the guy of her dreams would be the icing on the cake.

    So, um... yeah. That's all from me. In case if it wasn't obvious enough I really like Serena. I like how there was actual character development in her, how she changed during the entire saga. The final episode left a happy and a sour taste in my mouth. On the one side there was actual happiness from the fact that she actually confessed and did much, much more but on the other side we witnessed her change, her transformation, how she flourished and matured thanks to her friends, but we have the significant milestone, the next chapter in her life... and it will happen off screen. And that makes me really sad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  18. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Training and development? Such as? Angsting over a stick? Being useless in a battle until it was interrupted or you evolved and supercharged at just the right time? Using 'Dodge and Flamethrower/Stone Edge/Swift' as your every strategy for 140 episodes? Sure, TR didn't exactly progress significantly in competence either, but at least the writers didn't glorify it like with Serena. Add to that Jessie at least learned to try for subtlety and less pompous approaches (for her at least), and switched things around with her performances to see what would work and gradually and realistically got better as a result (eg. adding Meowth to her appeal rounds). Serena just did the same thing over and over from the start and it always worked so long as she didn't make a blatant accident on stage. I felt more catharsis in Jessie going from a grandiose performer who only impressed James and Meowth in her first showcase, to an elegant and much adored celebrity by the time of the public Triplokalon, compared to Serena, who never really stood a chance of not being popular.

    The most effective development in competence Serena got was her battle with Ash where she shown able to improvise a decent amount of strategy, which was also likely the last bit we'll ever get.

    I think Serena's team were okay in terms of personality and emotional development, they would work on the terms of a slice of life show, but as characters in an action/tournament series, they weren't remotely dynamic. They were invincible incompetents, their strategies and power never really improved so they relied on the plot just bending reality so they didn't look like a loser all the time, which combined with how basic their core efforts were, made them rather dull and unaccomplished protagonists, and hard to root for because it meant they always won things too easily. Their bout with the Flare grunts proved they hadn't improved the slightest since they got roadblocked by Meowth in the first season. They did show mild improvement in their last limelight episode, though I question why they overlooked an entire limelight series to gradually develop Serena's competence (along with a more dual sided relationship with Ash) over keeping her static until suddenly during the last lingering moments of the series and maybe one or two return episodes (if we even get THAT). It might have made sense if Serena was meant to be a long runner and thus developing slowly within multiple series, but rushing it into her final handful of appearances I don't see the point in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  19. Navin

    Navin MALDREAD

    That episode could have happened way earlier.

    Replace episode 12 with Serena meeting Shauna, being told about Waifu Wars, and watching Elle perform (since that's what literally happened in episode 40). Replace episode 13 and/or 18 her deciding on Waifu Wars, and then confronting her mother. Instead of the baking contest, episode 26 could have been her debut and meeting with Millefui that way.
     
  20. Soniman

    Soniman Break the Limit

    So basically you just like Jessie more, which was already obvious.

    Still doesnt really debunk what I said about Serena's team getting blatantly more focus then Jessie's
     
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