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What battle mechanics do you like?

Nave

Well-Known Member
Although Pokemon Legends: Arceus does not have a PvP format, it has shaken up battling in a big way, and some of these changes may be preserved in Gen 9.

The most obvious change is how Speed affects turn order. A Pokémon can actually use multiple moves before the opponent does. This allows strategic maneuvering such as healing in the middle, going all out attack, or boosting and then attacking. There are also Agile and Strong Styles: Agile Style raises the Pokémon's action speed, allowing it to move multiple times, but sacrifice power; Strong Style sacrifices action speed, but increases power and effects such as HP recovery and chance of secondary effect. However, since SwSh remains the main metagame of Gen 8, these changes seem unlikely to be kept moving forward. The classic turn based game will almost certainly remain.

The new weather and status conditions, however, may be here to stay.
Hail has been replaced by Snow, which does not deal damage every turn. Instead, the speed of Ice types are boosted, and Pokémon are more likely to develop Frostbite and be affected by Drowsy (more on that later). Rain no longer boosts the power of water moves, but it still weakens Fire moves; whereas Sun no longer boosts the power of fire moves, but still weakens Water moves. In Strong Sunlight, the speed of Grass types is boosted. Fog has returned, lowering the accuracy of all moves, except those that always hit. Pulse moves have been changed to always hit, raising their value in Fog.
Gone are Freeze and Sleep, which are replaced by Frostbite and Drowsy respectively. Frostbite works similarly to Burn, but instead of halving Attack, it halves Special Attack. In Snow, Pokémon are more likely to be affected by Frostbite, but Ice types are immune to it. Moves like Flame Wheel and Flare Blitz can remove Frostbite, much like they could Freeze. Drowsy, on the other hand, works similarly to Confusion, except you don't hurt yourself when you fail to move. Drowsy Pokémon also take more damage from attacks. During Snow, Drowsy Pokémon are more likely to miss their moves.

Personally, I prefer Frostbite to Freeze, but Sleep to Drowsy. Freeze is the most annoying hax ever, and it makes sense for there to be a status condition that is like Burn, but halving Special Attack instead of Attack. Sleep is such a classic status condition though, and using Rest to become Drowsy just isn't the same--it's also counterintuitive because you take more damage after healing. Sleep and Freeze were too similar though, so I hope the change from Freeze to Frostbite stays.

I like Snow more than Hail. Not dealing chip damage every turn differentiates it from Sandstorm (ironically, Sandstorm is not in this game). I also like its interaction with Drowsy and Frostbite--especially the latter, because that emphasizes Ice types immunity to it. Fog is kind of annoying, but I like how it raises the value of moves that never hit. I suspect that Snow and Strong Sunlight raising the action speed of Ice types and Grass types respectively is to make up for the removal of Abilities like Slush Rush and Chlorophyll, so I don't think that will be kept moving forward when Abilities are back in the game.

Another huge change is how entry hazards have been removed. Instead, moves like Stealth Rock and Spikes do damage, and then deal chip damage on subsequent turns. Although I don't mind this in Legends Arceus, I personally hate the idea of this being true moving forward. Entry hazards are such a big part of the meta.

What changes do you like and want to keep? What things do you want to revert back to tradition?
 

Chris02

Active Member
I think Hail should remain hail, we already have the Slush Rush ability in the main games. Frostbite wouldn't be bad, but Freeze was there since R/B/Y, plus Freeze has no moves that are like Hypnosis, or Thunder wave, all Freeze moves are attacks but I wouldn't mind having both Freeze and Frostbite. Sleep should stay in place as well. Turn orders should stay traditional, and keep entry hazards the way they are in the traditional games. Basically not many changes to the traditional games.
 
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Det. Viper

That’s Detective Viper to you
The way Legends is set up going to the traditional Turn Based Battle System would not exactly work. We would accept it because that’s how it has been for the past 25 years but the new Conditional Turn Based System works great in an open world setting as is. Agile and strong style affecting these conditional turns adds to the strategy and would be welcome any time they do another game such as this. However, I agree that the main battling game and all VGC will rely on the Traditional Turn Based System.

I always hoped that hail would be removed and replaced with traditional snow. Hail is a lot rarer of weather in the real world when compared to snow. Replacing freeze with frostbite should stay. With frostbite working in a similar way to burn I think it is a much better condition than freeze. However, drowsy should only stay in games that use the Legends battle system.

Stealth Rocks working like Wrap or Fire Spin should not have happened. I wish it never made it into the game.

I am indifferent to changing how sun and rain being changed at this time but maybe as I battle more I will change my opinion.
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
I think Hail should remain hail, we already have the Slush Rush ability in the main games. Frostbite wouldn't be bad, but Freeze was there since R/B/Y, plus Freeze has no moves that are like Hypnosis, or Thunder wave, all Freeze moves are attacks but I wouldn't mind having both Freeze and Frostbite. Sleep should stay in place as well. Turn orders should stay traditional, and keep entry hazards the way they are in the traditional games.

I agree that the native speed boost for Ice types in Snow should not be kept, because there is already Slush Rush. However, Hail is annoying to play around because the chip damage affects everyone but Ice types. That makes you feel like you have to use Pokémon with Overcoat, or throw Safety Goggles on them, if you don't want to do an mono-Ice team. In the traditional mainline games, we don't have any weather that interacts with status conditions. That's why I think it's cool how Snow raises the chance of inflicting Frostbite. I'm less sure about how it would interact with Sleep if they keep that over Drowsy. But maybe it can raise the sleep counter by 1, or sleeping Pokémon are dealt more damage from attacks. One thing I do like about Drowsy, is how some Electric attacks like Wild Charge and Volt Tackle remove it. So Electric types can use Rest to heal, and then a physical Electric type to remove Sleep/Drowsy. Since there is a precedence for Electric Terrain nullifying Sleep, and Electric types having Vital Spirit, I think that should be kept. Also gives you a reason to use physical Electric moves, as almost everyone uses special.

I agree that the main battling game and all VGC will rely on the Traditional Turn Based System.

I always hoped that hail would be removed and replaced with traditional snow. Hail is a lot rarer of weather in the real world when compared to snow. Replacing freeze with frostbite should stay. With frostbite working in a similar way to burn I think it is a much better condition than freeze. However, drowsy should only stay in games that use the Legends battle system.

Stealth Rocks working like Wrap or Fire Spin should not have happened. I wish it never made it into the game.

The traditional turn based system needs to be kept. It just works too well. Game Freak seems to agree with that since SwSh is still the main game for the meta. However, I think the battle system in PLA is good for kids. So maybe it can be used again in other Legends games.

I agree that Hail should be replaced with Snow. As I mentioned before, the chip damage of Hail is more of a detriment to team building. Sandstorm works because 3 types are immune to the chip damage. I like how Snow differentiates itself from Sandstorm. Replacing Freeze with Frostbite seems logical because Freeze is too similar to Sleep, but we need something akin to Burn. It's always been better to run an ultra-offensive team with special attackers, because of the presence of Intimidate and Burn. Frostbite would balance things a lot. Freeze, to me, is the most annoying hax, as attacks only have 10% to inflict Freeze, so when that happens you feel like it's just sheer luck.

I agree with what you said about Stealth Rock. I understand why they changed it for a game that is only single player, as the CPU rarely switches Pokémon in and out, but entry hazards are such a big part of the meta game. Stealth Rock is literally one of the best and most classic moves.
 
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Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
I hate when enemies get more attack turns than me :(
 

Chris02

Active Member
I agree that the native speed boost for Ice types in Snow should not be kept, because there is already Slush Rush. However, Hail is annoying to play around because the chip damage affects everyone but Ice types. That makes you feel like you have to use Pokémon with Overcoat, or throw Safety Goggles on them, if you don't want to do an mono-Ice team. In the traditional mainline games, we don't have any weather that interacts with status conditions. That's why I think it's cool how Snow raises the chance of inflicting Frostbite. I'm less sure about how it would interact with Sleep if they keep that over Drowsy. But maybe it can raise the sleep counter by 1, or sleeping Pokémon are dealt more damage from attacks. One thing I do like about Drowsy, is how some Electric attacks like Wild Charge and Volt Tackle remove it. So Electric types can use Rest to heal, and then a physical Electric type to remove Sleep/Drowsy. Since there is a precedence for Electric Terrain nullifying Sleep, and Electric types having Vital Spirit, I think that should be kept. Also gives you a reason to use physical Electric moves, as almost everyone uses special.



The traditional turn based system needs to be kept. It just works too well. Game Freak seems to agree with that since SwSh is still the main game for the meta. However, I think the battle system in PLA is good for kids. So maybe it can be used again in other Legends games.

I agree that Hail should be replaced with Snow. As I mentioned before, the chip damage of Hail is more of a detriment to team building. Sandstorm works because 3 types are immune to the chip damage. I like how Snow differentiates itself from Sandstorm. Replacing Freeze with Frostbite seems logical because Freeze is too similar to Sleep, but we need something akin to Burn. It's always been better to run an ultra-offensive team with special attackers, because of the presence of Intimidate and Burn. Frostbite would balance things a lot. Freeze, to me, is the most annoying hax, as attacks only have 10% to inflict Freeze, so when that happens you feel like it's just sheer luck.

I agree with what you said about Stealth Rock. I understand why they changed it for a game that is only single player, as the CPU rarely switches Pokémon in and out, but entry hazards are such a big part of the meta game. Stealth Rock is literally one of the best and most classic moves.
Good point. I think the main games and and any future legends game should stay separate. I would not mind Snow or Hail. As for Frostbite, there should be a move like Will-O-Wisp that causes frostbite so you can inflict it as reliably. There is currently no reliable way to cause that status. As long as the main games stay traditional, that's good.
 
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KurashiDragon

Well-known Dragonite Enthusiast
I like Drowsy and Frostbite a lot but I kinda want Sleep / Freeze to stay around as 1HKO status moves that activate under specific conditions. Like if a Drowsy mon gets confused. Or if a mon gets hit with Frostbite 2 or three times. It'd be a pretty cool strategy to see in VGC. Having teams specifically built around koing with status.

I like the splinter debuff and hate it at the same time. I like it cause hazards have been a thing I've hated sense stealth rock decided to disgrace our presence in gen 4 and be required on dang near every team. But I also hate it because there's a reason Stealth rock was required and it was to keep the really top tier stuff from getting out of hand. Mulitscale Dragonite runs amok without rocks to check that ability. Gen 6 Talonflame goes from being a monster to being obnoxious without rocks. ECT ect..... Though rocks did have the unfortunate side effect of making whatever wasn't already op to the point of stealth rock being the only thing keeping them out of uber suddenly drops off the face of the earth. *oh hai zard* Also, heavy duty boots suddenly becomes less necessary with the splinter debuff. Really this is a complicated situation all round. Maybe if Splinters stuck around for the next mon switching in instead of just being up permanently / only applying to the mon that's in, that'd be a happy medium between the two extremes.

I like speed turn order but I don't like how some mons are just shafted hard by it. Golem suddenly goes from bad to worse by having any water mon fast enough come in on the switch and still get a turn off. I've been using Braviary in Endgame because I kinda like it and it's signature move I like because it improves it's horribly subpar speed but that only really works out on my turn. On my opponents turn any significantly fast mon is gonna get a few good licks in, taking advantage of it's also subpar defensive stats. Really any mon with subpar stats just got shafted hard. Rampardos hits like a truck but that low speed stat makes it so that it's not gonna last long enough to properly show that off. Speed suddenly became the most important stat to have in the game and I'm not sure how to feel about that. I like turn order and even agile / strong style but switching out should immediately take up any turns you have. That really is just blatantly unfair to any slow mons in the game.

Can we talk about Psuedo Choice Band AKA moves that power up the power of other moves by 50%? Double hit suddenly went from a subpar attack move I'll immediately replace with return to suddenly ambipom hits like a truck and I'm 100% ok with this. H - Liligant blatantly overshadows H - Decidueye in part due to Victory Dance *Though the obvious speed difference and Triple Arrow being kinda bad doesn't help things* I like it. I have no complaints and not really any changes other than maybe not making victory dance an exclusive move.

I don't really have any strong opinions about the weather other than fog being the same annoying thing it's always been. There aren't enough 101 acc moves in the game to properly take advantage of fog and Defog isn't in the games so I've never particularly cared for it. I guess snow becoming the *status weather* differentiates it enough from hail / sandstorm for me to say it should probably stay. give ice types a niche without shafting the other types as hard. Though, coming full circle, I kinda hope there's a way to summon hail with some specific condition like my previous suggestion with the statuses. The end turn chip could do more damage to compensate it's more specific condition of being applied.

I have more to say about other things in the game too but I've done 5 paragraphs and I'm to tired of not playing LA to type this post out any more than it already is. I really like this game and the changes its made to the battle style. Some hits and some misses but nothing boring. I hope GameFreak keeps this formula and refines it to something we're not gonna get bored of for another 25 years.
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
Good point. I think the main games and and any future legends game should stay separate. I would not mind Snow or Hail. As for Frostbite, there should be a move like Will-O-Wisp that causes frostbite so you can inflict it as reliably. There is currently no reliable way to cause that status. As long as the main games stay traditional, that's good.
Yeah I agree. I don't know what I'd call that move, other than Frostbite haha. But I already like how non-Ice moves can cause it, like Bleakwind Storm and Bitter Malice. All Freeze had was Freezing Glare and Tri-Attack, to my knowledge. There seems to be more potential for Frostbite.

What about Cryopathy?
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
I like the splinter debuff and hate it at the same time. I like it cause hazards have been a thing I've hated sense stealth rock decided to disgrace our presence in gen 4 and be required on dang near every team. But I also hate it because there's a reason Stealth rock was required and it was to keep the really top tier stuff from getting out of hand. Mulitscale Dragonite runs amok without rocks to check that ability. Gen 6 Talonflame goes from being a monster to being obnoxious without rocks. ECT ect..... Though rocks did have the unfortunate side effect of making whatever wasn't already op to the point of stealth rock being the only thing keeping them out of uber suddenly drops off the face of the earth. *oh hai zard* Also, heavy duty boots suddenly becomes less necessary with the splinter debuff. Really this is a complicated situation all round. Maybe if Splinters stuck around for the next mon switching in instead of just being up permanently / only applying to the mon that's in, that'd be a happy medium between the two extremes.

I like speed turn order but I don't like how some mons are just shafted hard by it. Golem suddenly goes from bad to worse by having any water mon fast enough come in on the switch and still get a turn off. I've been using Braviary in Endgame because I kinda like it and it's signature move I like because it improves it's horribly subpar speed but that only really works out on my turn. On my opponents turn any significantly fast mon is gonna get a few good licks in, taking advantage of it's also subpar defensive stats. Really any mon with subpar stats just got shafted hard. Rampardos hits like a truck but that low speed stat makes it so that it's not gonna last long enough to properly show that off. Speed suddenly became the most important stat to have in the game and I'm not sure how to feel about that. I like turn order and even agile / strong style but switching out should immediately take up any turns you have. That really is just blatantly unfair to any slow mons in the game.

Can we talk about Psuedo Choice Band AKA moves that power up the power of other moves by 50%? Double hit suddenly went from a subpar attack move I'll immediately replace with return to suddenly ambipom hits like a truck and I'm 100% ok with this. H - Liligant blatantly overshadows H - Decidueye in part due to Victory Dance *Though the obvious speed difference and Triple Arrow being kinda bad doesn't help things* I like it. I have no complaints and not really any changes other than maybe not making victory dance an exclusive move.

I don't really have any strong opinions about the weather other than fog being the same annoying thing it's always been. There aren't enough 101 acc moves in the game to properly take advantage of fog and Defog isn't in the games so I've never particularly cared for it. I guess snow becoming the *status weather* differentiates it enough from hail / sandstorm for me to say it should probably stay. give ice types a niche without shafting the other types as hard. Though, coming full circle, I kinda hope there's a way to summon hail with some specific condition like my previous suggestion with the statuses. The end turn chip could do more damage to compensate it's more specific condition of being applied.
I think Heavy Duty Boots has fixed the problem of Singles being a little too entry hazard driven. Would be weird if they introduced it only to remove entry hazards completely. I have to say I missed Toxic Spikes, with all those new moves that do double damage to Pokémon with status conditions.

Although I like the idea of Strong Style, I agree that slow Pokemon have gotten even more shafted by speed turn order. Being able to attack first off a switch doesn't make sense. In the traditional turn based game, they can turn the tables wit Trick Room, but that doesn't really work in Singles.

By pseudo Choice Band do you mean Fixated? I like the idea behind it.

I think Fog would work a lot better if Defog was in the game. That's already one of the best moves in Singles, but could become more important in Doubles by removing Terrain and Fog. I have mixed feelings about the Pulse moves all having perfect accuracy. Kind of removes the uniqueness of each pulse move, but I always thought perfect accuracy moves were underrated yet underpowered.
 

Darkbirt

Member
All new additions I love them all. I hope they will build a new ability system with new held items(visible ones.)
If their are two more status conditions, I would be happy.
I really like the new balancing.
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
All new additions I love them all. I hope they will build a new ability system with new held items(visible ones.)
If their are two more status conditions, I would be happy.
I really like the new balancing.
Visible held items kind of reminds me of the Armour rumoured for Galar. Might have preferred that to Dynamax, actually.
I personally love having abilities and items. Felt personally attacked when someone said they like not having them in another thread, lol.
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
I dislike how they nerfed Frozen and Sleep, so I definitely would like them to be restored in the next game.

Them nerfing weather conditions is a bit more hit-or-miss with me because we can no longer control weather in this game. Moves like Sunny Day don’t really feel like they’d fit the world and battle system sadly, so I understand why they were removed. Still, some part of me wishes that it would return.

They’ve shown that if an ability is truly important to a Pokémon, they’ll just code it into the mon proper like with Cherrim. I think that Pokémon like Hippowdon should still have their ability, but it’s not a dealbreaker for me.

I think it’s weird that they simplified buffs to “offensive stats” and “defensive stats”. I believe that this was their way to cut down the movepool and how many moves that they would need to animate. I would still like for Physical and Special to be treated separately in a sequel.

Part of the reason why the movepool seems so small is likely because of the ability to change movesets on the fly. There’s no longer a point to keeping so many moves.

Something I found funny was the lack of Trainer classes. Knowing a trainer classes’ specificalty is what prompts players to organize their party. Without it, you often send out an unfavorable matchup. If said Pokémon is slow, then you won’t be able to change it out until it’s at least taken some damage. Not to mention since trainers have very variable teams in this game, they could have a Pokémon that would punish the Pokémon that you currently have out and without “Switch” style, you have to wait for your turn to get the Pokémon out. This large departure from the mainline series is likely one of the reasons why people have been having trouble with the battle system.
 

Zadent

Well-Known Member
I dislike how they nerfed Frozen and Sleep, so I definitely would like them to be restored in the next game.

Them nerfing weather conditions is a bit more hit-or-miss with me because we can no longer control weather in this game. Moves like Sunny Day don’t really feel like they’d fit the world and battle system sadly, so I understand why they were removed. Still, some part of me wishes that it would return.

They’ve shown that if an ability is truly important to a Pokémon, they’ll just code it into the mon proper like with Cherrim. I think that Pokémon like Hippowdon should still have their ability, but it’s not a dealbreaker for me.

I think it’s weird that they simplified buffs to “offensive stats” and “defensive stats”. I believe that this was their way to cut down the movepool and how many moves that they would need to animate. I would still like for Physical and Special to be treated separately in a sequel.

Part of the reason why the movepool seems so small is likely because of the ability to change movesets on the fly. There’s no longer a point to keeping so many moves.

Something I found funny was the lack of Trainer classes. Knowing a trainer classes’ specificalty is what prompts players to organize their party. Without it, you often send out an unfavorable matchup. If said Pokémon is slow, then you won’t be able to change it out until it’s at least taken some damage. Not to mention since trainers have very variable teams in this game, they could have a Pokémon that would punish the Pokémon that you currently have out and without “Switch” style, you have to wait for your turn to get the Pokémon out. This large departure from the mainline series is likely one of the reasons why people have been having trouble with the battle system.
I get disliking Drowsy. But if I may, why do you not like frostbite over freeze? Freeze…i don’t think is a good or fun mechanic, so I’m curious why you like it.
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
I get disliking Drowsy. But if I may, why do you not like frostbite over freeze? Freeze…i don’t think is a good or fun mechanic, so I’m curious why you like it.
Frostbite is just a reskinned Burn status. It’s boring.
 

Zadent

Well-Known Member
Frostbite is just a reskinned Burn status. It’s boring.
Oh, so it’s not that it’s not freeze, but just special burn?

I kinda get that. I don’t mind it, just because it’s better balance-able that way, and doesn’t feel like nearly as much of a negative player experience. If they could find something more creative, sure, but in the meantime for me, frostbite is faaaaar better than freeze. Getting hit by freeze never feels good.
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
What i like is how the battles feel more fluid than previous games
Most of that can be ported to the battle system we're used to
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
Well, let's see:

LIKES
1. Frostbite - I very much love this status effect, but I hope it becomes separate from Freezing.
2. Effort Levels - This should DEFINITELY stay, but be altered to include limitations. For example, the 510 EVs can become 510 Grit.
3. Turn Queues - It is very helpful to see the turns ahead of time, but I'm not sure how well it would work in PvP battles.
4. Move Styles - I LOVE THIS. I hope it becomes a mainstay of the series. I love it more than Dynamax and Mega Evolution.
5. Move Pools - I can finally use False Swipe without wasting a move slot. lol I think it's safe to say this feature will become the standard for future games.


DISLIKES
1. Drowsiness - I really don't like this status effect. I'd rather they keep Sleep. This ruins my lovely Yawn strategy.
2. Turn Reset - While it can be easily exploited in the main game, I will agree with @Zadent that it can be a real pain the butt. If it stays, it'll need mending.
3. Status Reset - While it has been very useful, I don't know if I'll like it in a fully open Pokémon game, which I feel Gen 9 is headed towards. It just feels like a free pass for ease of play, and I don't like games being too easy.
 

Mew2

Team Rocket's Enemy
I personally like most of the new mechanics. I would like to see Freeze and Sleep return but only because they have been staples of the franchise. I don't mind the styles and I especially like the Trainer being able to fight Pokémon, even if it is just throwing balms at them so far. My favorite new mechanic, however, is the Effort Levels and the Grit items that can boost them. It will allow a lot of people to get into the multiplayer scene and not get overwhelmed by competitive players and potentially turn them off to that part of the franchise. I also like the Move Pools since it seems so natural for Pokémon and, as mentioned in the post above, allows a Pokémon that knows False Swipe to use it without it wasting a move slot for serious battles where the goal is to beat the opponent.
 

Tsukuyomi56

Sky High Knight
Frostbite is just a reskinned Burn status. It’s boring.
Frostbite feels fairer than Freeze as a means to weaken special attackers akin to Burn, physical attackers have it rougher contending with Burn and Intimidate. Freeze can feel unfair on the oft chance it triggers as if RNG hates you the victim can be rendered helpless until it gets KOed (unless it knows an auto-thawing move).
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
Frostbite feels fairer than Freeze as a means to weaken special attackers akin to Burn, physical attackers have it rougher contending with Burn and Intimidate. Freeze can feel unfair on the oft chance it triggers as if RNG hates you the victim can be rendered helpless until it gets KOed (unless it knows an auto-thawing move).
You shouldn't be able just power through an ailment. It defeats the spirit of having them.

Not to mention you have free reign to use items in PLA.
 
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