What did you like and dislike about Sun and Moon?

[Doppelgänger]

Of course people don't expect a zombie apocalypse at the end of a tournament, but...we're not just watching the tournament are we?

You realize that there are "how to watch Pokemon" guides out there which specifically highlight the Gym Battles and league battles, right?
Yes, many people do only watch for the Gym Battles and League, and yes in sports, it's very common for people to ignore the regular season and only watch the postseason.

2) An adventure show, not a sports show. It's adventure. Evil bad guys with world-ending schemes are part of the adventure. The League is part of the adventure.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Pokemon is. The fictional Pokemon battling of the anime is a sport; real Pokemon battling is classified as an e-sport. You could make this argument that world domination plots and the Pokemon League are equally valid in a series like AG or SM, but not in a battle-first series like XY.

 

[DatsRight]

I kind of appreciate SM in that it seems intent on having more 'building block' concepts. Now I should be wary about saying this, for all we know SwSh will erase everything it does, but SM, while not being development heavy perhaps, seems more keen on flourishing the show itself and giving it more fresh material and concepts that could be ideal in the long run.

BW and XY weren't void of this, they established non-Team Rocket episodes and giving them and Ash more enigmatic traits for example, but most of these were established at the very start of their series before slowly reverting back to normal formula, while SM never really stopped trying new ideas and breaking old taboos. As I mentioned previously, it felt like the old formula was running thin by DP, and by this point 'baby steps' weren't gonna solve it, SM offered loads of ideas that could be helpful long term.

Stuff like more versatile fillers, Ash being able to drive an episode on his own without battling or goal focus, trying whole arcs where only one character is involved, developing Matori as a foil for Team Rocket, giving Pikachu a new more strategic move, and of course, Ash winning the league and being allowed to catch more elusive Pokemon. A LOT could be done in the next series or even two or three before material wears thin again so long as they continue making use of these.

 

[mehmeh1]

You realize that there are "how to watch Pokemon" guides out there which specifically highlight the Gym Battles and league battles, right?
Yes, many people do only watch for the Gym Battles and League, and yes in sports, it's very common for people to ignore the regular season and only watch the postseason.



This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Pokemon is. The fictional Pokemon battling of the anime is a sport; real Pokemon battling is classified as an e-sport. You could make this argument that world domination plots and the Pokemon League are equally valid in a series like AG or SM, but not in a battle-first series like XY.

It may be a sport, but SM aside (and even including it, many times), the anime is first and foremost an adventure show

 

[Lionel_B]

The anime is in the first place a shonen's parody. But it is especially valid for the original series. Today, an anime cycle can be totally different from others without making sense. That's why after an Ash that did not have to do with AG and DP, we offered a beginner Ash in BW, then an Ash Badass in XY, then an Ash who has to go back to school in SM, and all that, without having to make a logical transition. That's how it works now.

That's why personally, I'm not amazed by the XY's Ash, especially since its maturity makes it boring, and it's not help by perfect companions who get along too well with him.

The "simple-minded" side of SM's Ash makes it at least entertaining, and more enjoyable to follow. And anyway, I can not take the character of Ash seriously, since his first retcon in BW, so let him do what he wants if the rest is good. And luckily for SM, the other characters make up for it.

 

[Victorian Rush]

Like: The animation for some the SM episodes has been really good and they did have some really good episodes, like the one where Ash got Litten, the battles in the Cerulean gym, and the episodes with that guy, Zeraora, and Guzzlord.

Dislike: pretty much everything else. It tried too hard to be funny and failed miserable, some of the battles were lackluster, Mallow’s character was handled very poorly, Lana was boring, Lillie only getting one Pokemon instead of two, Ash winning the league instead of Bewear, and the pacing was just terrible.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Ash winning the league instead of Bewear.

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but this made me laugh.

 

[Sham]

I like how Sun and Moon tackled real life topics like phobias, PTSD, losing a loved one, neglect etc

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I like how Sun and Moon tackled real life topics like phobias, PTSD, losing a loved one, neglect etc

Third one was eh. The characters only dealt with such a heavy theme for about an episode before going back to goofing off as always. Normally, things like that last way longer than what it depicted.

Neglect is something the anime has already showed plenty of times before.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Mind providing some examples for the neglect thing because I don't really remember occurrences

On the top of my head, any Fire-type starter Ash owned before Litten. It was also mixed with abuse, though.

There have also been a lot of COTD episodes dealing with neglect. The Deino episode is a standout, even if it was an invoked thing everyone believed.

 

[Power Up]

Liked some of the off-kilter filler eps. The baseball one in particular had some really nice shading

 

[Joltik-Kid]

One of my favorite things about Sun and Moon happened to be Ash's team... personalities. Thanks to Ash basically having a small team for the long haul of the region, each of his Pokemon had some character defining moments. It is the most personality I have seen from Ash's Pokemon since the Sinnoh region. Another thing was I personally thought the animation and art direction were a solid choice. With a little more polish, it could have been something real special, but alas there were some rather odd frames thrown in at times. I think the staff had the right idea on how to go about trials but...

What I disliked was how much time felt wasted between the trials. Slice of life might work in shows dedicated to them, but Pokemon is an adventure based series, so them being focused in a singular area at anytime made certain episodes boring. And while the big cast was a plus in some areas, it was also possibly its weakest aspect. We all knew Ash would get the bulk of time, main character status, but everyone else seemingly got neglected for long periods of time when one other person other then Ash got any focus. It was pretty bad when we all agreed that the last minute team changes for the League were specifically done to buff up the cast members that had long been shafted.

Not the worst series, that still goes to BW, but it was not AG and DP levels of good. This is not gonna be a popular opinion, but I would put it ahead of XY thanks in part to the characters (humans and Pokemon) not acting like robots and being more then one dimensional.

 

[DatsRight]

Truth be told, a lot of fillers in previous series would be borderline slice of life if they didn't shove in the obligated Team Rocket battle, which is usually so one-sided it barely counts. I kinda like them ditching that plot device more often since it often allows the story to flow properly and have a more relevant third act. Actual parables and more intimate character limelight can occur over just shoving in 'hey let's team up and stop bad guys then the plot will instantly be solved'. I can actually be invested in the first two acts of the episode now.

 

[Cradily17]

They didn't give Mallow or her Pokemon enough time in the spotlight, and I hate how Incineroar is treated as a God when it's my least favorite Pokemon period.

 

[Soniman]

They didn't give Mallow or her Pokemon enough time in the spotlight, and I hate how Incineroar is treated as a God when it's my least favorite Pokemon period.

He's not. He doesn't even get THAT much focus. Being a Professor's ace is hardly that glorifying

 

[Cradily17]

He's not. He doesn't even get THAT much focus. Being a Professor's ace is hardly that glorifying

Look at how it's treated compared to the other fully evolved Alola starters. Decidueye got cucked by its baby form while Primarina was bullied by Team Skull as both a Popplio and a Primarina. Meanwhile, Kukui's Incineroar never lost to a single Pokemon and one-shotted a Mega Aggron. Not even Alain's Charizard was able to defeat every Pokemon it encountered (it lost to Siebold's Blastoise).

 

[Ignition]

Look at how it's treated compared to the other fully evolved Alola starters. Decidueye got cucked by its baby form while Primarina was bullied by Team Skull as both a Popplio and a Primarina. Meanwhile, Kukui's Incineroar never lost to a single Pokemon and one-shotted a Mega Aggron. Not even Alain's Charizard was able to defeat every Pokemon it encountered (it lost to Siebold's Blastoise).

Incineroar is literally about to get knocked out in the upcoming episode in 3 days lmao

 

[DatsRight]

Didn't Incineroar nearly get thrashed by Viren's goons without Kukui around to direct it?

I think it's as much about trainer demonstration than Pokemon. Hau and Lana would obviously be less experienced than Ash and Kukui. Lana didn't even raise Primarina for battling as her primary goal.

For one other point I was iffy about, while I didn't mind the slapstick approach, I admit there seemed to be long periods they'd waver whether to have everyone take part in the comedy or just sort of designating the episode to hitting Ash and a couple other characters at best. It took till almost Ultra Legends for Mallow to really do a lot of gags or 'antic' plots in particular. This categorising makes sense in more serious series where not everyone's limelight will be comical, but in one where the main appeal is comedy and slapstick, a character that doesn't do any of that is gonna end up a buzzkill.

 

[Zoruagible]

They only suffered because Ash only had one serious rival, Gladion. And they rarely used Hau, he should have really appeared more. Along with giving focus to Pikachu/Alola Raichu, and not making their whole rivalry centered around bird and bigger bird! Seriously there was literally no point in Hau owning Alola Raichu...

As for Primarina, it deserved what it got. Sorry, not sorry. Always hated that thing, it's design is almost as bad as Jynx!
They still got better off than the Johto starters not named Meganium, Swampert, and Chesnaught.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I enjoyed how they adapted almost all of Alola’s music minus Lusamine’s theme and a couple of routes etc. I loved Alola music and seeing the anime adapt it was great.

Guzma got robbed and it'd have kept the league from using Cross's battle theme half a dozen times in half as many episodes

 

[DatsRight]

As for Primarina, it deserved what it got. Sorry, not sorry. Always hated that thing, it's design is almost as bad as Jynx!
They still got better off than the Johto starters not named Meganium, Swampert, and Chesnaught.

My problem with Primarina is that it never really got much of a consistent personality besides 'happy performer seal'. It interchanged through some traits per episode but they never stuck or merged into one fully fledged personality (eg. its temper towards Rowlet which only appeared in the starter trio episode). It looked like Sandy would circumvent that by giving it a foil of some sort, but then Popplio evolved only a few episodes after and never really interacted with Sandy again.

Torracat and even Rowlet to compare grown in personality and dynamics. There was also more of a substance to them growing as battlers than Primarina, who was just sort of boosted rather than given any actual battles with Lana. Given how much Torracat himself was screwed over in terms of battles, that's really saying something. Hell even Sophocles got a couple development battles with Vikavolt before the league that weren't curb stomps or plot armour saves.

Primarina kinda suffered the same issue as Lana herself, they didn't really click a distinct arc or vice for it to grow around, so it just sort of blandly 'fell upward' the whole series. The big beatdown against Guzma felt like it was meant to balance this, but it didn't really evolve either of them as characters, it just shown its good chi could run out.