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What do you think about EVs/IVs

Minedreigon

A monument to all your sins
I like both alot. IV's make all pokemon different, encouraging trade. I myself am an IV breeder, and it may take a while, but I do like the edition of IV's. EV points are cool because it makes stats and sets very variable.
 

jstinftw!

hey trainer
I think that they are great additions to the game.

Competitively, of course, they are crucial. EVs and IVs are basically your stat boards and how you customize a Pokemon. Many Pokemon can run different sets, and essentially customizing the EVs and IVs can really help you. For example, EVing a Pokemon to be able to survive a hit from a certain Pokemon with just enough HP to KO that Pokemon, or giving a Pokemon a certain IV stat so that, under Trick Room, it just barely outspeeds a Pokemon you need to outspeed while underspeeding everything else. Things like that. Without EVs and IVs, the game would seriously turn into a numbers game based greatly on which side of the coin flip you got. Will you or will you not outspeed? Will you or will you not survive? There is no making sure that a Pokemon can do this or that; it would seriously be "it does this, let's hope the RNG doesn't screw me over." if EVs did not exist.

Now, casually, canonically, spiritually, etc. If you view Pokemon not as a game but as an alternate reality. EVs and IVs are still essential.

Wait how?

They are what gives each Pokemon its characteristic, its personality. Those are based off of the IVs a Pokemon has when it is caught or hatched.
EVs, on the other hand, is special training. If you put a Pokemon on a treadmill everyday, it would get faster and its endurance would increase. If you made a Pokemon lift weights or punch a punching bag everyday, its strength would increase. If you made a Pokemon sit under a waterfall, its endurance would increase. If you made a Pokemon sit down and use Flamethrower all the time, its ability to use Flamethrower would grow. Things like that. Special training means that they will gain a specific benefit. And that's what the EVs are; special training.

Now let's compare it to real life. If you, as a person, do not do any sort of special training (EV training), you will either not gain any special benefit, or you would receive a diminished amount of special training spread across different areas. You would have no specialization. Now, if you undergo special training, you will see that special benefit. Basically, that is the end result to EV training.

Now why does that matter in the casual/canonical/imaginative part of the fandom? Because it adds another texture to the Pokemon world. The headcanon if you will. A Pokemon who has not undergone any form of special training by their trainer will more than likely struggle to perform the task a Pokemon who has undergone the special training will. The Pokemon just isn't raised that way. So if you're worried about that sense of Pokemon, it is still important. It shows that Pokemon does have that extra layer, setting a difference between the normal Pokemon and the "specially trained" Pokemon.

It also brings that "Hometown Hero, World-class Zero" element to Pokemon. That sounds mean because I can't think of a catchier way to say it, so bare with me. Let me explain.

By not EV training your Pokemon, you can be very good on a lower level. You can have the basic concepts down, have a semblance of strategy, synergy and such, but you're not in the big leagues. Like how in Pokemon, there are trainers who do well in their small hometowns, but do not add up when pitted against world class trainers. "Hometown Heroes" represent those Pokemon trainers who are good on the hometown level. Nothing to be ashamed of, this is where the vast majority of players sit anyways.

The "World Class" trainers aren't exactly worldclass. They just get the competitive aspect, play under it, and thus can "technically" stand up against the big boys. They're the trainers who have the EVs and IVs down, they get that whole concept of competitive battling. The Hometown Heroes are at a significant handicap while playing against these trainers, although that doesn't mean they can't win. It's possible that they could, just highly unlikely.

Without EV training and IV breeding, that wouldn't be possible. For some, this sucks, because they want everything to come easy to them. For others, this is great, because it does add that dimension, and for those of us who deal with it and work hard, we get to reap the rewards of putting in the hard work.
 
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Sid87

I love shiny pokemon
I honestly have no problems with them. I trade for flawless pokemon and I EV train to have an optimal team on W-Fi battles. But to be honest? I enjoyed the games a lot more before I knew they existed. Competitive battling, while fun in its own way, is mostly annoying, and I miss when the games were just basic fun for me. It's one of those things where I can't UNLEARN what I know, though.
 
If you think they shouldn't exist then ignore them. They are the most important thing in Pokemon The reason why Pokemon is such an AWESOME game is that people who don't care about the technical stuff can play it and have fun, but for people who are more advanced technical gamers they can go to a WHOLE different place and easily put 400-500+ hours into the game. I probably wouldn't play Pokemon if it wasn't for IVs and EVs. I'd just play story basically.
 

TheGiftedFlareon

Tactician's Gambit
I personally love Pokemon the way they are. Even though they think this is "Perfect", HARD WORK can over come a GIFTED GENIUS if they tried hard enough. It is the spirit and willpower. Not something from birth.
 

Rakurai

Well-Known Member
EVs are fine. IVs just encourage people to hack.

I think it's about time they let you just control all of the IVs that are passed onto a Pokemon through breeding, so you can realistically get a flawless Pokemon through the intended methods.
 

Ska Draco

Active Member
EVs are pretty easy to understand tbh.

IVs a bit more complicated especially when you're trying to breed for them.

With every generation EVs and IVs will be dumbed down to help the idiots through something that requires a bit of thought process.

X & Y better not make it easy to get perfect IVs, we have one clue already with our Pokemon's IVs with the characteristic of your Pokemon. I managed to breed a Skarmory with an Impish nature and 30 IVs in its Defense stat. I was pretty darn pleased. It's much easier to breed natures on HG/SS and I think B/W is the same as you can give the everstone to the male or the female to pass down the nature, it used to just be the female you gave the everstone to, to get a 50% chance of the female's nature to be passed down.

EVs and IVs are really rewarding when you get them right, and make each Pokemon different which adds great depth. It can be a tedious process to EV train and max out IVs but it's vital on the competitive stage to do so. Like I said it's inevitable that with each generation they'll make EVs and IVs easier to grasp. However, the current IV system heavily promotes hacking so giving more of an idea on a Pokemon's IVs may help cut down the hacking.
 
EVs are fine. IVs just encourage people to hack.

I think it's about time they let you just control all of the IVs that are passed onto a Pokemon through breeding, so you can realistically get a flawless Pokemon through the intended methods.
First, it is untrue that IVs just encourage people to hack. Plenty of people (like me) breed Pokémon in a traditional way. There are ways to increase the odds of getting good IVs (see here).

Second, simply allowing people to choose IVs would greatly diminish the purpose of having IVs in the first place. How many people would deliberately choose low IVs?

With every generation EVs and IVs will be dumbed down to help the idiots through something that requires a bit of thought process.
It still requires thought. The things that boosted EVs in Join Avenue weren't "dumbing down" anything, and the new options set to be added in X & Y aren't either. It just means there are more and different ways to boost EVs. And that, I believe, is a good thing.
 

Miar

Wigglytuff Guild recruit
EVs are perfectly okay, especially since Emerald on where you can take stats away (Tamato-cycle of berries) as a way to fine-tune them. It's getting ever-easier to make the Pokémon as good as you want, except...

IVs are NOT okay. AFAIK, they can't be adjusted, or even accurately measured in-game. The idea that some Pokémon are just inherently worse than others in its species—without even being genetic—is disappointing.
 

TanBun

I'm back :3
The good thing of EV's and Iv's is that you can ignore them if you want: it is not obliged to use them
 

Mr. L 500

YOOM-TAH!
EVs are perfectly okay, especially since Emerald on where you can take stats away (Tamato-cycle of berries) as a way to fine-tune them. It's getting ever-easier to make the Pokémon as good as you want, except...

IVs are NOT okay. AFAIK, they can't be adjusted, or even accurately measured in-game. The idea that some Pokémon are just inherently worse than others in its species—without even being genetic—is disappointing.

Yeah, I think that IVs could use a little bit of reworking. I know its not required for you to use them, but I would still be nice to be able to actually see what they are at.
 
I have no problem with EVs. EV training is easy.

IVs on the other hand... Ehhh... They're not so fun. What gets me is that for actual competitive matches, your Pokemon absolutely must have perfect IVs in all stats that matter. How people obtain Pokemon with perfect IVs WITHOUT Random Number Generating (RNG) is beyond me. Even RNGing is hard, but at least I can manage. I think IVs kind of create this unattainable standard for battles that most players aren't able/don't want to achieve. RNGing is time consuming and confusing at times (especially for B2/W2), and without RNG, the IV stuff is even worse because it's pretty much luck.

If they just did away with IVs, that would be a good idea for most players. No one wants to spend hours trying to hatch a Pokemon with perfect IVs in three stats. It's not fun.

I might be okay with IVs if it wasn't for the Hidden Power mechanics either. Unless you RNG, you're not going to get a Pokemon with the right Hidden Power. Even if it's the right type or something acceptable, chances are it's going to have a crappy base power. If Hidden Power always had 70 BP, that would be great.
 

DjangoCribbs

Well-Known Member
IVs on the other hand... Ehhh... They're not so fun. What gets me is that for actual competitive matches, your Pokemon absolutely must have perfect IVs in all stats that matter. How people obtain Pokemon with perfect IVs WITHOUT Random Number Generating (RNG) is beyond me.

That's why it's called "competitive".
If it's beyond you, find a guide or two.

If they just did away with IVs, that would be a good idea for most players. No one wants to spend hours trying to hatch a Pokemon with perfect IVs in three stats. It's not fun.

Except plenty of people do put a lot of time into breeding 'Mon with the best possible IVs for their build. So clearly they do want to.
If you want to make an argument against IVs then you're gonna need to think harder and come up with something that takes into account the bigger picture. Because here your only complaints are that you don't understand it, you can't be bothered and that you don't think it's fair.
You're not taking into account the critical role that the IV system plays in ensuring that Pokémon goes beyond your average, repetitive, grinding RPG. Specifically by making each and every encounter, be it a wild or a trainer battle, is somewhat different. It's why I can one-shot a Lvl 5 Gastly in Sprout Tower only to be given a certain degree of grief from the Lvl 4 I encounter immediately afterwards.
 

garretslarrity

Unova Champion
If they just did away with IVs, that would be a good idea for most players. No one wants to spend hours trying to hatch a Pokemon with perfect IVs in three stats. It's not fun.

I do. I managed to breed a Larvesta with FOUR perfect IVs right where I want them, and the Volcarona I started with had ZERO perfect IVs. And yes, it WAS fun!
 

Wizardly Oz

Scholar of Insects
EV's I don't mind -- they're optional, and good for giving Crunch a little extra bite to it.

However, IV's I do mind. One of the aspects I like about pokemon is that you befriend a weak creature and raise it to become strong, through experience and training. Yet, if your creature has 1 IV in each slot, the poor thing just cannot become strong. I understand this mechanic is somewhat like genetics and makes pokemon unique, but goodness! Many pokes are predestined to be failures it seems, and the trainer has absolutely no control over how well your Snivy can take a hit or dish one out.

And, IV's are nearly invisible. As much as I want to capture a Vulpix in the wild to raise, I cannot help but be wary of poor stats. Alas, if I did not care for such things regular gameplay would be so much more fun.
 

MadaMada

Well-Known Member
I do. I managed to breed a Larvesta with FOUR perfect IVs right where I want them, and the Volcarona I started with had ZERO perfect IVs. And yes, it WAS fun!

FUN? Is that sarcasm I sense?

Back in DPPT, it took an average of a freaking month to breed a single Pokémon with decent IVs (assuming you don't have great parents to start with).

It took me more than TWO MONTHS to breed a Charmander with max Speed and Sp. Atk, more than 25+ in the rest of the stats and Hidden Power Grass.

TWO MONTHS!!!, 2000 eggs. TWO MONTHS of doing nothing but riding my bike up and down. That was GRUESOME!!! I never wanna do that again.
 

garretslarrity

Unova Champion
FUN? Is that sarcasm I sense?

No, it was not sarcasm. I love breeding in general.

Back in DPPT, it took an average of a freaking month to breed a single Pokémon with decent IVs (assuming you don't have great parents to start with).

It took me more than TWO MONTHS to breed a Charmander with max Speed and Sp. Atk, more than 25+ in the rest of the stats and Hidden Power Grass.

TWO MONTHS!!!, 2000 eggs. TWO MONTHS of doing nothing but riding my bike up and down. That was GRUESOME!!! I never wanna do that again.

How hold on a second there. You did it in DPPT. I did it in Gen 5. See the difference? If not, it is because I had the Power Items, and you did not. I even mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that I would not dare try IV breeding without the Power Items.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Power Items were introduced in DP anyway and I'm fairly certain the whole passing-down-the-IV thing was in DP too, though it might not have been discovered until later in the generation.

Gen 5 with BW2 and Join Avenue makes both breeding and EV training so ridiculously easy that there really shouldn't be any more complaining about it. As for IVs, except in the most hyper competitive environments such as VGC, decent IVs will do just fine in 90% of situations.
 

garretslarrity

Unova Champion
Power Items were introduced in DP anyway and I'm fairly certain the whole passing-down-the-IV thing was in DP too, though it might not have been discovered until later in the generation.

The Power Items existed, but it was not until HeartGold and SoulSilver that they transferred IVs.
 
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