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What do you think about PC culture?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Sham, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Sham

    Sham Someone is calling us

    If it’s such basic information why didn’t he just go with calling him male instead of saying “judging”? It’s weird language for calling someone a guy and makes it look like he’s uncertain and just making a guess. If he indeed just went by his profile’s stated gender I’m wrong but it’s confusing language.
  2. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    Making a judgement is making a decision based on the information you have, and in this case it does fit. You can always be wrong with a judgement, but in theory there needs to be a logical basis you can put into words, and in this case it was simply “well your profile says male so I’ll go with that”
    keepitsimple likes this.
  3. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    Man, bad-faith posters are my favorite part of every debate!

    I "assumed his gender" based on it saying in the poster's profile that they were male, not because of their profile picture. I say "judging by" because I don't know the poster to actually know if they're male or if they're just putting that in because e.g. they're AMAB and have a different gender identity that the gender options on the forum -- male, female, and unspecified here, so the odds are pretty good that "unspecified" would cover it, but just in case, I've been saying "they" throughout this post (also because then it can more readily be applied universally and not just to this one person) -- don't fill properly.

    Also, by referring to the poster as male, you're also assuming gender. In a way, you're disproving your own point (assuming you had one), which is what leads me to think you're trolling.
    keepitsimple likes this.
  4. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    I’ve actually been annoyed by “proper” grammar that you can’t say “they/them/their” if you don’t know the gender of a person in some cases. Tell me which of these is grammatically correct? “Someone left his lights on his car” or “Someone left their lights on their car”? If you chose the first sentence, you’d be correct but what if two people owned the car? You don’t know that by looking at the car. I’ve had teachers that demanded that proper grammar skills be used and they got annoyed if you used they to denote someone of an unknown gender. I honestly hope schools stop teaching that grammar rule as it is extremely outdated and almost no one doesn’t use it as a singular pronoun for people especially if the gender is unknown. Grammar is important and all but sometimes you need to adjust to the times to stay relevant.
  5. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    They is perfectly fine to use, it was just passed around alt-right circles that it’s some new thing that’s terrible when a dictionary Twitter account showed it’s okay to use it to refer to a person.
    keepitsimple and Gamzee Makara like this.
  6. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    "It was just passed around alt-right circles that it's some new thing" is only true of modern opposition and doesn't apply to the historical complaining about the use of the singular "they." Of which there's quite a bit because singular "they" is almost as old as plural "they."

    Speaking of which, history lesson time for folks out there who are still salty about this bit:

    The singular they has been in use since the 14th century. Criticism of this came from a relatively small subset of prescriptivists in the 18th century for relatively under-explained reasons. Opposition had previously sprung up in the 16th century for reasons that were blatantly sexist, because of course they were. In both cases, most writers just straight-up ignored that **** because a. those people were wrong and singular "they" works just fine, people masturbating to ~number agreement~ are a little weird; and also b. language is strongly influenced by usage I mean, Shakespeare literally made words up and I ain't seen you folks getting all up in his dick over it. Most arguments about it stopped happening until relatively recently when, for a few days, a couple of cheerleaders for fascism over on Twitter started getting twisted over the fact that some people still use this completely grammatically-accurate construction to refer to people they didn't like. It was probably more driven by transphobia than by any real concern about how the language works, much like how the oldest complaints were couched in sexism, and the 18th-century complaints were... basically arguments about traditionalism which means they were also couched in sexism in this case.

    Anyone who says that the use of "they" as a singular pronoun is not "proper" grammar is

    Oh, great, I forgot the word I was going to say. Give me a minute here. It was right on the tip of my metaphorical tongue, too...

    Oh, right! Wrong. People who say that the singular they isn't grammatically correct are wrong. They probably shouldn't be teachers, as a result, but I'm not really here to judge that.

    Then again, education in America is pretty terrible and seems to only get worse as time passes, so that ship has probably long sailed. And not so much crashed as given up and sunk to the bottom of the ocean because it was sick of the world entirely.
    keepitsimple and Gamzee Makara like this.
  7. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    I’ve only had one English teacher who had to teach grammar as part of the lesson plan disagree with the proper grammar rule involving pronouns for unseen people with unknown genders. She said apparently the reason everyone used they was because in the 70s, feminists complained that using masculine pronouns when talking about unseen people of an unknown gender was sexist and they did have a point. So the new rule was that you were supposed to say “his or her/him and her/he and she” but that took too long and so everyone used they/them/their singularly and grammar fanatics said that was a no-no. On a related note, ain’t isn’t technically incorrect because it used to be used by snobby upper class folk who used it as a contraction for am not and the verb’s related tenses. But then the working class started to use it as well and those snobby rich people were offended by this that ain’t became associated with bad grammar. I think that grammar should not follow such strict rules and allow what is deemed to be incorrect as being proper as time changes and if it is applicable to the present.
  8. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    I’d be wary of anyone using 70’s Feminists as a main blame for something today, since we’ve had arguably 2 waves of Feminism since then.

    Grammar nerds can run into the problem where they argue how things should be rather than how things change naturally over time in society.
    Gamzee Makara likes this.
  9. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    I was talking about when I was in school. The teacher seemed slightly annoyed that some of the grammar rules were so outdated and not really applicable anymore. That was back in 2000. I agree with teaching students about sentence formation and how to use an adverb and an adjective but saying what words can’t be said in a certain way is just silly if it still sounds correct. I mean who is going to say “I’ll learn you!” instead of “I’ll teach you”? That never made sense to me nor did the singular use of they being deemed wrong.
  10. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    I know you're male the same way I know bobjr and The Admiral are 29.

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