What do you think each each Gen of the anime will be remembered as?

[Ignition]

Lol why all the hate for SM? BW looks good if I hear the comments.
OS: Ash as a noob trainer. Brock and Misty with pokémon without any personality.
AG: Sceptile, Contests, BF, Charizard defeating an Articuno.
DP: Ash coming up with more stratagies.Dawn was decent. Togekiss wasnt deserved.
BW: Nothing
XY: Ash gets kissed, Kalos League,TF, many emotions.
SM: Having a pokémon learning a move in a tree like what? Only using Lycanrock and Pikachu. Rushed arcs.

That's how the general fandom reacts. My post, for example, was from what I've seen online and only like 5% of what I typed do I genuinely mean.

The issue with him just using Pikachu and Lycanroc is something I still despise & I'm glad you pointed it out.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

That's how the general fandom reacts. My post, for example, was from what I've seen online and only like 5% of what I typed do I genuinely mean.

The issue with him just using Pikachu and Lycanroc is something I still despise & I'm glad you pointed it out.

Terrocat didnt compete in one Grand Trial. If it doesnt compete in the Poni Grand Trial, it would be sad

 

[Frozocrone]

OS: GOAT
ADV: WHY YOU NO MISTY
DP: pretty good
BW: SUCH A KID
XY: notice me senpai Grebinja
SM: where is muh XY

I admittedly have not put much thought into this.

 

[Apslup]

OS: "Ash won most of his Badges through luck/pity" "Muh Charizard" "Muh Nostalgia".
AG: Contests, Battle Frontier, "Thunder Armour", Max being a little unlikable ***** the whole.
DP: Made Contests actually interesting, Ash getting cucked by Tobias, Paul rivalry and the battle at the end, Ash getting some of his best Mons (Infernape, Staraptor, Gible)
BW: Reset, Ash is a Noob again, Iris and Cilan are annoying, the fact that Ash caught so many Pokemon and hardly evolved any of them. Also Tepig being a shitty version of Infernape.
XY: Ash is actually a good trainer? Good Animation, Serena is a qt, Bonnie and Clemont are funny, Ash Greninja and Ash getting cucked by Alain
SM: Ash looks retarded, too much Slice of Life and not enough action.

 

[Ashton Ketchum]

OS - Hyperactive beginning of Legend, more active humour, all silly is fine because - it's beginning, now great like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and classic Sonic games.
AG - Real Advance: continuation of old formula with new ideas, Ash starts growing up, more serious battles, more serious villains (but - ending of their storyline - fail), humour now more balanced, contests, overhated Max and second Ash' grand victory (BF).
DP - Continuation of progress, more suspense, more serious tone, much better real villains, humour still in balance with growing up, most strongest female companion, more awesome contests, one of the strongest Ash's team, touching episodes for Jessie and James, the best League and imbalncer Tobias.
BW - Freakin reset, bunch of wasted potential, Ash got amnesia, silly reproduction of Paul, silly reproduction of Charizard and Infenape, ruined war TR vs TP thanks to earthquake, the weakest Ash's team, most annoying female companion, underrated male companion, worst League, and - cutie Oshawot. And - humour at least kept himself in hands.
XY - strong and growing up story, coolest and kick ass Ash, Ash-Greninja (FINALY! ASH'S WATER STARTER IS EVOLVED!!!! AND DON'T GET GRASS STARTER!!!!!!), most joyful like family group, joyful humour, most development female companion, most emotional moments (especially - end), right direction for progress - In side of Shōnen, and Team Flare Attack arc - is Most Epic Episodes in whole series!
SM - Very-Very weird experiment, WHAT THEY DONE WITH ASH'S (and not only) FACE, horrible-cringy and annoying (and sometimes - insulting humour), rushed story arcs with potential, tooth dumbest idea in anime ever - send and without this experienced hero to the school, to killer of key elements of franchise - adventures and regular battles, Milotic punch to Ash's "Poke Balls", "Too Much Water" (@IGN), and - BRING BACK GRENINJA, IF YOU WANT SAVE RATINGS FOR FINAL EPISODES. And - R.I.P., original Oak...

 

[U.N. Owen]

Milotic punch to Ash's "Poke Balls", "Too Much Water" (@IGN)

I fail to see how this is memorable. The only time I've ever seen this brought up is when someone believes SM "wronged" Ash and people that complain Hau should be brought in to be hurt in Ash's place.

 

[Ashton Ketchum]

I fail to see how this is memorable. The only time I've ever seen this brought up is when someone believes SM "wronged" Ash and people that complain Hau should be brought in to be hurt in Ash's place.

Well, as I said early - If Hau was instead Ash plush for this punches, SM was little bit better.

 

[U.N. Owen]

Well, as I said early - If Hau was instead Ash plush for this punches, SM was little bit better.

You have my interest. How would it be better?

 

[AznKei]

"Too Much Water" (@IGN), and - BRING BACK GRENINJA, IF YOU WANT SAVE RATINGS FOR FINAL EPISODES. And - R.I.P., original Oak...

Of course it has lots of water, it's based of a set of small islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. At least you don't have to "swim" between the islands in the SM games unlike ORAS.

As for Greninja, let it go. The show would still be profitable without the ratings and that Pokemon, thanks for the franchise being way too succesful, and it doesn't need to take exemples of other shows.

 

[Ashton Ketchum]

You have my interest. How would it be better?

Well, because any other boy character deserves this instead Ash.

As for Greninja, let it go.

Never!

 

[U.N. Owen]

Well, because any other boy character deserves this instead Ash.

That's outright insane. The primary criticism of the SM anime is the type of humor. You're not fixing any problem. And what makes Ash such a figure of great importance that he needs to be "protected" like this was the days of the Hays Code? And why is it specified that it needs to be a male character? Slapstick knows no gender.

 

[DatsRight]

That's outright insane. The primary criticism of the SM anime is the type of humor. You're not fixing any problem. And what makes Ash such a figure of great importance that he needs to be "protected" like this was the days of the Hays Code? And why is it specified that it needs to be a male character? Slapstick knows no gender.

True. Bringing in a comic relief to take all of Ash's lumps won't exactly 'balance' things because then people will be complaining about said character being too much of a gag character, compared to Ash who, due to being main character, usually gets some form of involvement to circumvent his butt monkey role, making him rounded. Actually notice the characters who tend to get the best roles in SM tend to do a similar amount of slapstick and silly behaviour (eg. Kiawe) while the more dignified characters who seldom take part in gags they are the butt of actually tend to be inflexible and get the scraps of involvement (eg. Mallow). I feel like this series is empathizing more with the 'clowns' and can think of more creative ways for them to play part, just their buffoonish moments keep balance so they aren't glorified.

 

[345ash-greninja]

OS (Kanto): Being a hot headed rookie, pity badges, disobedient Charizard and the horrendous way Ash lost the Kanto League in the worst battle in Pokemon history that is Ash vs Ritchie.

OS (Orange League): For the first time Ash won some major competition, a.k.a. Orange League.

OS(Johto): Finally Ash proves himself worthy of earning legitimate badges (Orange League barely involved battling so they hardly count), Ash managing to finally defeat his childhood arch-rival Gary.

AG (Hoenn): Pokemon Contests (a new and a really unique type of Pokemon battling competition), Ash showing arguably the most balanced amount of personality in a saga.

AG (Kanto Battle Frontier): Needless to say, for Ash's undoubtedly best accomplishment as a Pokemon trainer till date, a.k.a. Conquering the Kanto Battle Frontier by deafeating all the 7 battle frontier facilities.

DP: Ash's intense and heated rivalry with Paul, the fiercest rivalry undoubtedly he ever shared with a rival, the best written Pokegirl ever that his Dawn who received pretty much as much focus as Ash did in the series, the best full battle ever in the history of Pokemon anime, a.k.a. Ash vs Paul in the Sinnoh League, Tobias competing with 2 freaking Legendaries in the Sinnoh League.

BW: Ash's terrible regression to a noob and him regressing in his League placement via loosing to an IQ>50 level trainer in Cameron who used only 5 Pokemon.

XY: Ash for the first time acting like a typical shounen and badass anime protagonist, grand art style and epic animation, Amourshipping (the main female for the first time having a canonical crush on Ash and him receiving his first kiss), Ash-Grenina (a special snowflake, legendary-esque rare transformation that happened once in 1000 of years, a exclusive power-up that Ash's Greninja recieved), 18th August 2016 (where plenty of Pokemon anime fans, being mislead by the hype bait title and previre, genuinely believed that Ash could win, suffered possibly the biggest heartbreak till date in the anime franchise till date, leading to an enormous amount of salt in the fandom, which took pretty much months to settle down).

Not giving my outlook on SM since it isn't fully finished yet.

 

[345ash-greninja]

That's outright insane. The primary criticism of the SM anime is the type of humor. You're not fixing any problem. And what makes Ash such a figure of great importance that he needs to be "protected" like this was the days of the Hays Code? And why is it specified that it needs to be a male character? Slapstick knows no gender.

Well, I'm not gonna say that slapstick/light-hearted comedy moments isn't required in an adventure show. It obviously is. To provide such comic relief amidst the intense action that happens most of the times in a adventure show, slapstick/light-hearted moments are obviously required. But then again, the slapstick should be at least well-balanced out between all the characters, and not only focus on a single character most of the times, which SM mostly does. The fact that Ash's has to bear the brunt of the slapstick 90% of the times in SM, especially during fillers, makes it look quite cringeworthy. It's not quite well balanced out between all the main cast characters at all.

Also there needs to be at least an upper bound upto where the slapstick/comedy/buttmonkey moments can go on in an adventure show which Pokemon overall primarily has been compared to being comedic. If the slapstick goes upto such an extent like it happens in a comedy show like Tom and Jerry (which SM sometimes does BTW), then it starts to looks quite cringeworthy and awkward.

Also, many a times, the protagonists of adventure/shounen shows have a heroic and magnificent stature, who are entitled to do some great, heroic and magnificent deeds like saving the world and stuff. If heroes of such a stature go through buttmonkey moments a lot rather than less, it looks really awkward and out-of-place. Like let's take the show Yu-Gi-Oh! for example. Yami Yugi(Pharaoh Atem) is one of the 2 main protagonists of the show(alongside his other self/entity Yugi Muto), and he has naturally a very serious/intense kind of personality who always has a serious kind of aura around him. So he doesn't usually go through buttmonkey moments there, because it doesn't quite suit his nature. Instead the slapstick/comic relief moments are mostly presented through Joey and Tristan, 2 secondary main character who are suited better for that stuff (and sometimes Tea too). If Yami Yugi went through a lot of slapstick moments in the show, I can bet you that Yu-Gi-Oh! would have diminished in quality as a show.

So having the adventure show protagonist, who is entitled to do many heroic stuff and so on, go through a lot of slapstick, isn't always a good idea, as you see.

 

[U.N. Owen]

So having the adventure show protagonist, who is entitled to do many heroic stuff and so on, go through a lot of slapstick, isn't always a good idea, as you see.

While I do agree with most of your post, the fact is that SM is a SOL anime with elements of adventure not unlike an episode of, per say, MLP:FIM. The idea was to refute this:

Well, because any other boy character deserves this instead Ash.

 

[Satomine Night]

Also, many a times, the protagonists of adventure/shounen shows have a heroic and magnificent stare, who are entitled to do some great, heroic and magnificent deeds like saving the world and stuff. If heroes of such a stature go through buttmonkey moments a lot rather than less, it looks really awkward and out-of-place. Like let's take the show Yu-Gi-Oh! for example. Yami Yugi(Pharaoh Atem) is one of the 2 main protagonists of the show(alongside his other self/entity Yugi Muto), and he has naturally a very serious/intense kind of personality who always has a serious kind of aura around him. So he doesn't usually go through buttmonkey moments there, because it doesn't quite suit his nature. Instead the slapstick/comic relief moments are mostly presented through Joey and Tristan, 2 secondary main character who are suited better for that stuff (and sometimes Tea too). If Yami Yugi went through a lot of slapstick moments in the show, I can bet you that Yu-Gi-Oh! would have diminished in quality as a show.

So having the adventure show protagonist, who is entitled to do many heroic stuff and so on, go through a lot of slapstick, isn't always a good idea, as you see.

Comparing Pokémon to Yu-Gi-Oh! is comparing apples and oranges. Firstly, the two shows have different audiences. Pokémon is aimed toward children. Because it's a long-running show that's not designed with an end in sight, and because its audience is fluid, the show has to change depending on what currently appeals to its target audience. Yu-Gi-Oh! was aimed toward preteens and teenagers, and because it was based on a manga, it was eventually going to end. Its audience was less fluid, so there was no need for the show to change as much. And, as is the case with many anime based off long-running shounen manga, Yu-Gi-Oh! got darker with each story arc, with more threatening villains and higher stakes for the main characters. In many ways, the series "matured" with the audience.

Secondly, the protagonists are very different characters. Ash is a hotheaded, brash young boy who has a tendency to leap into things without thinking, and that's often what results in his being in a slapstick situation. Yami Yugi, as you acknowledged yourself, is a very serious character. He is also levelheaded and thoughtful and tends to think before he acts. He just isn't the type of character who would find himself in a slapstick situation. Joey, on the other hand, is brasher and less likely to think before he acts, which is why he is more often the victim of humor. Even Yugi, who is less serious than his "other self," tends to be the victim of humor a little more often.

Thirdly, the shows themselves are very different. Pokémon is an action-oriented series, and much of the drama comes from the action—whether that action is a Pokémon battle or the characters getting into a scrape. Yu-Gi-Oh! is not as action-oriented. Instead, much of the drama comes from emotions, such as the high stakes of card games and the overly dramatic way characters react. SM's slapstick humor, which often depends on action, wouldn't work as well in a show like Yu-Gi-Oh!

I'm not saying that Ash should always be the buttmonkey. However, that's not because he is the protagonist of an adventure show, because there are a lot of adventure show protagonists who are often the buttmonkey. It depends on the nature of the show and on the natures of the characters themselves.

 

[Aquafinna]

Well, I'm not gonna say that slapstick/light-hearted comedy moments in a comedy show isn't required in an adventure show. It obviously is. To provide such comic relief amidst the intense action that happens most of the times in a comedy show, slapstick/light-hearted moments are obviously required. But then again, the slapstick should be at least well-balanced out between all the characters, and not only focus on a single character most of the times, which SM mostly does. The fact that Ash's has to bear the brunt of the slapstick 90% of the times in SM, especially during fillers, makes it look quite cringeworthy. It's not quite well balanced out between all the main cast characters at all.

Also there needs to be at least an upper bound upto where the slapstick/comedy/buttmonkey moments can go on in an adventure show which Pokemon overall primarily has been compared to being comedic. If the slapstick goes upto such an extent like it happens in a comedy show like Tom and Jerry (which SM sometimes does BTW), then it starts to looks quite cringeworthy and awkward.

Also, many a times, the protagonists of adventure/shounen shows have a heroic and magnificent stare, who are entitled to do some great, heroic and magnificent deeds like saving the world and stuff. If heroes of such a stature go through buttmonkey moments a lot rather than less, it looks really awkward and out-of-place. Like let's take the show Yu-Gi-Oh! for example. Yami Yugi(Pharaoh Atem) is one of the 2 main protagonists of the show(alongside his other self/entity Yugi Muto), and he has naturally a very serious/intense kind of personality who always has a serious kind of aura around him. So he doesn't usually go through buttmonkey moments there, because it doesn't quite suit his nature. Instead the slapstick/comic relief moments are mostly presented through Joey and Tristan, 2 secondary main character who are suited better for that stuff (and sometimes Tea too). If Yami Yugi went through a lot of slapstick moments in the show, I can bet you that Yu-Gi-Oh! would have diminished in quality as a show.

So having the adventure show protagonist, who is entitled to do many heroic stuff and so on, go through a lot of slapstick, isn't always a good idea, as you see.

I disagree with this. Naruto is an excellent example of a hero being able to endure slapstick and still be seen in an heroic light. Heck Naruto had his worse because his slapstick was another actual human character (Sakura most of the time). However that didn’t make him any less heroic.

 

[DatsRight]

Also check out Kung Fu Panda (the films at least), where a lot of the basis comes from the fact that the main character is a buffoon that still wins the day but fails to play things in a dignified way (the third film climax....just....the third film climax). I like that sort of defiance in conventions, the belief that only the serious dignified characters can be effective and the clowns should only be the unimportant comic relief. Where's the fun in that?

Concerning the slapstick, while I do admit it often goes Ash's direction, it's not as consistent as it's claimed to be. The past few episodes had other characters take as much comical pain and humiliation as he did (Lillie and Sophocles were shrunk with him with larger emphasis on Sophocles' neuroses than anyone else's, Stakataka trolled Kiawe, and even Mallow and Lana as much as him, and if anything he was instigating most of the gags onto the others with his antics in the spa episode). The Necrozma debut episode is also a good example of him being comical without much of any slapstick and still playing things serious when they were demanded.

Also remember that, yeah SOME climaxes in the anime should be serious, but a large amount are supposed to be lighthearted. If anything I could argue the twerps act too much like serious buzzkills against comical villains like Team Rocket and Skull, and a few comical XY episodes were harmed by Ash's personality not really immersing into the antics enough and just being stuck in stock shonen hero mode. Remember most of the OS episodes were REALLY tongue in cheek because of the TR/twerp chemistry.

Yeah the slapstick should be evenly shared, but I think this only rings true for Mallow and Lana, who seldom ever have any gags or antic plots targeting them and thus become kinda boring and uninvolved (though even then as mentioned we had a couple recent exceptions). Kiawe, Sophocles and even Lillie however I think have done plenty gags and not always shared with Ash. Otherwise the problem isn't really Ash being a sport for humour, but some others not being so and him having take a few extra lumps in their place. I'd rather he be that than the buzzkill however.

I am at least relieved that Ash is still competent in SM. He's a butt monkey but he's not the perennial screw up people accused his OS and BW counterparts of being.

 

[DuquÊ?]

OS - Nostalgia. Far to be the best gen, but will always remembered as the first. And "that cartoon where the character released all his monsters and doesn't evolve anything".
AG - Innovation. First time things really changed from the previous series, even if many points kept the same (CoTD, TRio blasting off etc). Ash finally start to be more independent of advices and evolve his pokemon. The contests.
DP - Development. Ash is actually sidelined in favor of Dawn, who have a good character arc. Ash vs Paul give Ash both an near invincible rival (so much that's almost stupid he could defeat him only one time and just because it was the league) and his polar opposite. When the character's pokemon started to have defined personalities, including ambipom, the most indecisive released pokemon ever. Also, "pocha pocha" (if you watched in japanese) until your ears bleed.
BW - Controversy and hate. The older fans consider it the blackest mareep, some younger people who started with BW appreciate it. Mostly the series where Ash became stupid for no good reason, got too much pokemon, and almost every non-Ash character was a bachelor in jerkiness (really, everyone in Unova sounded as too condescending for no good reason, as a worsened version of Kanto arc). Also, TRio becomes a legitim threat for a change was probably the only best thing, as OOC as they sounded.
XY/Z - Action, romance, super modes and plot. At least as much as you could expect from a Pokemon series. The first time Ash sounds as a main hero should be and, depending of opinions, his best version. I like the feeling of "old school shounen" the series pass, or like an eighties' old fashion adventure movie. It's comfy and thrilling. Team Flare's finale easily tops Team Galactic's finale. Also, that time a girl kissed Ash and it wasn't in the cheek. Serena will always have my respect.
SM - Blandness and slapstick. It's like a slightly better Johto, with better animation, the battles what matter are generally good, but still too uneventful. Even the supposed "climax arcs" have nothing aside quick conlusions with few or no consequences. Also, Ash get the shortstick so many times that even the TRio looks more successful than him.

 

[Leonhart]

I feel like in time XY&Z will be remembered less for its supposedly bad League finale and more for shoehorning Gekkouga and Puni-chan into every other episode, which was the worst aspect of Kalos for me.