doofinc
get rillaboomed
I figured one out for DP, the Japanese OPs are IMO the worst ones out of all of the JP OPs (OG - SM), though I will admit I have not heard the million variations of 1-2-3 yet (I think the most recent one > the DP OPs).
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What do you think each series did worst?
- Thread starter DatsRight
- Start date
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satopi
Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
I feel very much insulted, attacked, and offended by this comment alone.
(I will only agree about the instrumental change in the OPs not being a good fit.)
Bendicion
Water Master
May was rarely, if ever, shown training and practicing for a competent win, instead relying on luck, "hax", and borderline deus ex machina for her wins. May is the kind of character who opens the episode with "My Pokemon and I have been training extra hard!".
May was never really more than a side character with a side character's amount of screen-time and character development. If she needed to train and learn a new strategy, she did it off-screen. Hell, her contests were sometimes off-screen as Ash went off to train and the show focused on him. Where as characters that came after her by comparison, practically upstaged Ash and took control of the anime for themselves, more than once. I was really impressed by the amount of thought and attention given to them, and found myself empathising with them so much more.
May was never really more than a side character with a side character's amount of screen-time and character development. If she needed to train and learn a new strategy, she did it off-screen. Hell, her contests were sometimes off-screen as Ash went off to train and the show focused on him. Where as characters that came after her by comparison, practically upstaged Ash and took control of the anime for themselves, more than once. I was really impressed by the amount of thought and attention given to them, and found myself empathising with them so much more.
janejane6178
Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
OS: Ash was given badges
AG: max underrated
DP: perfect
BW: Ash being weak
XY: perfect perfect perfect wonderful
SM: horrible horrible horrible artstyle. The characters have their faces highly distorted (except for some that have distorted faces regardless of the artstyle, like the blue girl and orange boy ), inappropriate characters, awful concept of school which doesn’t feel like school but more like a kindergarten with a 15 years old boy in it
JN: episodes feel disconnected , Koharu losing her personality and becoming an Eevee’s puppet who just smiles all the time which is disturbing
AG: max underrated
DP: perfect
BW: Ash being weak
XY: perfect perfect perfect wonderful
SM: horrible horrible horrible artstyle. The characters have their faces highly distorted (except for some that have distorted faces regardless of the artstyle, like the blue girl and orange boy ), inappropriate characters, awful concept of school which doesn’t feel like school but more like a kindergarten with a 15 years old boy in it
JN: episodes feel disconnected , Koharu losing her personality and becoming an Eevee’s puppet who just smiles all the time which is disturbing
Bendicion
Water Master
What the hell is May doing winning her first ribbon against Grace in the first place when she has little battling experience? Seriously, she thinks Drew is a challenge and yet the person who defeats him can't beat May. It was a terrible episode that completely put me off of contests until DP. You laughably expect me to believe that the beautifly/medicham battle has the best strategy when May showed NO strategical ability beforehand against an opponent who was shown to be a better strategist than Drew who was leagues beyond May at that point? And even by the 50th episode, they still made absolutely no solid progress on her as a Pokemon Coordinator and never showed her improving her skills to the point where she could accomplish feats like she did in that contest. Drew is a better trainer than May in all aspects at this point in the series. Its extremely obvious. The fact that Grace was able to outclass Drew yet lose to May is telling me all I need to know of her horrible handling. May's Beautifly couldn't even use the moves properly the episode before, it suddenly mastering them didn't make a whole lot of sense.
TheLink
Eunie is as Eunie does.
Dude this isn’t a “Let’s list everything we dislike about May in multiple posts” thread. It’s a “what did each series do worst” thread. Can we please NOT actively try to get this closed?
On topic, a few that come to mind:
OS (Kanto): The world building kind of felt all over the place. Seems like it was torn between trying to match Shudo’s original vision and matching the games to…mixed results.
OS (Johto): An obvious one but…the sheer level of filler present. As a kid I didn’t mind it because, hey new Pokémon episode yay, but as an adult it just makes Johto a slog to watch.
AG: Lack of rivals in the Hoenn portion - not introducing literally any recurring rivals until the league was a misstep.
DP: The year-long gap between badges seven and eight - even though this wasn’t nearly as bad as some folks make it out to be since important events happened pretty frequently. That said, a gap the equivalent of 25% of the saga’s total run time being spent between what should effectively be 12.75% if we’re averaging it out still rubs me the wrong way.
BW: The Ash reset, but more importantly, being the beginning of the trend of the all-over the place characterization of Ash going forward.
XY: Not counting the sudden re-shift in Ash’s characterization, lack of continuity. No, Ash was not portrayed as some god like folks seem to think so I don’t think that’s an issue. However, not even referencing Ash’s Charizard when they had both brought it back in the previous series AND there was a primary character that had a Charizard that uses ONE of its TWO new forms. Should’ve given Zard Y to Ash. To name one example.
SM: The pacing was a little off. Seems like things meandered in its second year only for them to go into overdrive in its third, leading to some rushed feeling development.
JN: Not to beat a dead horse, but a tie between the lack of Pokémon interactions within Ash’s team and the shoddy way that the PWC has been handled. Multiple rank jumps of-screen? Really? And Ash’s team barely being shown outside of their balls when the previous saga did it almost constantly with a much bigger supporting cast to boot is just bad.
Sham
The Guardian of War
- OS I really don't have much words on based on the simple fact that it was the original series and thus bound to have a bunch of errors that should theoretically be fixed by the time other series replace it
- AG's world building aspect was horrendous when Kanto came around. The way that Kanto felt like an extension of Hoenn instead of it's own region was jarring. They could of taken advantage of so many things not addressed in the series in the games. Like introducing Janine or exploring other plot lines in GSC.
- DP should of had better team placing. Gible and Togekiss came way late when Ash's and Dawn's arc were essentially almost done. They just came off as last minute placements and spot holders so when they compete in the League/GF. I don't even think they were used in any Gyms or Contests.
- BW had the absolute worse departure episode in the history of this series. When Iris, Ash and Cilan parted ways it just seemed like they were all over it and just wanted to move on. Glad they established that Iris and Ash are close in JN but dang was that episode bad. You'd think Iris and Cilan were just characters of the day.
- Serena and Clemont had almost no substance in terms of friendship. So this "complaint" is mostly discussing XY's group dynamic. Dawn and Brock along with Iris and Cilan had established relationships outside of Ash. Ask yourself what did Clemont and Serena talk about outside of Ash? Even when they were each others date the focus was still on Ash (obviously this is because Serena had a crush on Ash but still their interactions are all about Ash). Ash's "inspiration" is what keeps them together.
- SM had the most absolute issues developing Pokemon in terms of strength. The fact that characters were learning new moves offscreen left and right like Primarina and Icy Wind and giving evolutions here and there with barely any training was wild. Mallow and Lana got fully evolved Pokemon with arguably doing the minimum in terms of battling and training.
- JN- TBA
Kuzehiko
That moment I found a lifetime treasure
OS: Ash being given badges in Indigo
Too many boring fillers
Lack of character and goal development for Misty and Brock
AG: Max contributed nothing to the overall plot neither was he developed. Brock didn't get any development yet again.
DP: Tobias, Ambipom/Togekiss, Ursula not winning a single contest, Dawn not beating Zoey, Kenny's character is annoying
BW: Ash's reset to his personality and trainer skills, Ash's undeveloped and unevolved team, Ash losing to Cameron. In short, everything Ash related
XY: Lack of dynamic between some companions in the XY gang, Serena's development was rushed as heck, battle Bond phenomenon, lack of continuity and Ash not beating Alain
SM: Literally everything, the sudden change of the series' formula, setting and animation was a huge impact, most characters were either uninteresting or boring except Gladion, Lillie and maybe Kiawe and Kukui.
Journeys: Many episodes being random and terrible, Goh's lack of struggle to catch Pokemon and him being undeveloped goal wise for the first half of the series,
Too many boring fillers
Lack of character and goal development for Misty and Brock
AG: Max contributed nothing to the overall plot neither was he developed. Brock didn't get any development yet again.
DP: Tobias, Ambipom/Togekiss, Ursula not winning a single contest, Dawn not beating Zoey, Kenny's character is annoying
BW: Ash's reset to his personality and trainer skills, Ash's undeveloped and unevolved team, Ash losing to Cameron. In short, everything Ash related
XY: Lack of dynamic between some companions in the XY gang, Serena's development was rushed as heck, battle Bond phenomenon, lack of continuity and Ash not beating Alain
SM: Literally everything, the sudden change of the series' formula, setting and animation was a huge impact, most characters were either uninteresting or boring except Gladion, Lillie and maybe Kiawe and Kukui.
Journeys: Many episodes being random and terrible, Goh's lack of struggle to catch Pokemon and him being undeveloped goal wise for the first half of the series,
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The person you're responding to is a borderline Misty troll who copy/pastes the same things about May in every thread for months at a time. Everyone knows what she's doing.
TheLink
Eunie is as Eunie does.
Ah. Hadn’t seen it myself. Noted.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Damn @DatsRight bringing out the evil twin thread 
Here goes
OS: Battles. They were horrendous and so were the writing surrounding them
OS Johto: Fillers. The worst of the series istg
AG: Non memorable. Hoenn was just so...boring, esp in competition with future sagas. May was boring compared with future poke girls, the league was boring, TR got boring, Brock got boring, the fillers were boring, the evil team and their plot was boring
AG BF: Worldbuilding of Kanto. Inner continuity when it came to regions really sucked
DP: Pacing and Tobias. I lump them together because Pacing is what led to Tobias. If they paced things better with lesser fillers we could have gotten more beyond Paul, like the Champions league or the BF, just something which wasn't as rushed and plot armory as Tobias
BW: Breaking continuity. With so many bad things about BW, this stands out the most. It broke continuity from OS-DP and ever since the series felt disjointed even though JN has done a good job improving on that
XY: Ash's characterization. It's like the writers fundamentally misunderstood who Ash is and what makes him likeable to counter the Ash is bad than Red memes and overcompensate for BW by making him a badass with zero personality. The depression arc had potential to improve it and comment on it and it failed miserably. He ended up losing the league too so you have to think what was it worth
SM: Ash's design. The artstyle of SM in general was good, it's just Ash looks out like a sore thumb, idk why. Asides from that I'd say third year being more packed when it could have been divided into the second year better, which was stagnant
JN: Lack of organic chemistry of Ash's mons/Offscreen stuff. Enough said
Here goes
OS: Battles. They were horrendous and so were the writing surrounding them
OS Johto: Fillers. The worst of the series istg
AG: Non memorable. Hoenn was just so...boring, esp in competition with future sagas. May was boring compared with future poke girls, the league was boring, TR got boring, Brock got boring, the fillers were boring, the evil team and their plot was boring
AG BF: Worldbuilding of Kanto. Inner continuity when it came to regions really sucked
DP: Pacing and Tobias. I lump them together because Pacing is what led to Tobias. If they paced things better with lesser fillers we could have gotten more beyond Paul, like the Champions league or the BF, just something which wasn't as rushed and plot armory as Tobias
BW: Breaking continuity. With so many bad things about BW, this stands out the most. It broke continuity from OS-DP and ever since the series felt disjointed even though JN has done a good job improving on that
XY: Ash's characterization. It's like the writers fundamentally misunderstood who Ash is and what makes him likeable to counter the Ash is bad than Red memes and overcompensate for BW by making him a badass with zero personality. The depression arc had potential to improve it and comment on it and it failed miserably. He ended up losing the league too so you have to think what was it worth
SM: Ash's design. The artstyle of SM in general was good, it's just Ash looks out like a sore thumb, idk why. Asides from that I'd say third year being more packed when it could have been divided into the second year better, which was stagnant
JN: Lack of organic chemistry of Ash's mons/Offscreen stuff. Enough said
Zweilous
Go-ing for Gold
OS - Kanto: Pokemon personalities. The Pokemon here had some very weak personalities, or personalities that only appeared in a couple of episodes. And yes, this includes many of Ash's Pokemon.
OS - Johto: Time-wasting. Who thought it was a good idea to devote 50% of the series to fillers. And not just fillers, but fillers with the same few plots, repeated over and over again? Misty and Brock did almost nothing, despite all the time they had. We barely got any development for the Pokemon. Like four years and barely anything happened.
AG: Team Rocket. The fatigue was starting to set in, and they felt more and more pointless in this saga.
DP: It's a tie between pacing and animation.
-Pacing. Things didn't need to be this slow or drawn out, with so little happening between big events. The Ash/Paul rivalry got pretty dull because they had to keep it lopsided for so long. This show was aggravating to watch week after week, though it's better as a binge.
-Animation. At least SM's style, as bad as it could be sometimes, lent itself well to the feel of the show. But DP was just plain fugly. Characters were constantly off-model, eyes were off, the backgrounds were bad.
-Originally, I was going to say fillers; DP had some horrendously bad fillers. But the final year of the show did a complete 180 and had really good fillers. Good job for fixing that.
(I don't hate DP or anything. It's a pretty good series. But I was rewatching some episodes recently and a lot of things came rushing back.)
BW: Team Spotlight. So they give Ash so many great Pokemon - in terms of unique species, or personalities, or battle styles, whatever. Rotation would be a fantastic way to break up the monotony of these 3+ year seasons, and could potentially cut down on fillers. And then most of them barely get any screentime, despite having three years and a buttload of time to develop them. Why did Palpitoad get cucked out of screentime for so long? Why not use him against Clay, instead of the Pokemon that has a weakness to Ground and no moves to counter it? You focused on Pignite's old trainer, but what about Snivy's? Leavanny evolved through friendship, yet it barely had any scenes with Ash.
XY: Ash was at his worst here. Yeah, he was strong. But he was so incredibly bland, personality-wise. He had mediocre chemistry with just about everyone, and it felt like a blatant self-insert. There were good moments and he was able to act as a catalyst for a few characters' stories, but these characters were basically getting blood from a stone.
SM:
-The humor. In an anime that constantly overuses jokes, this series' humor got stale by the second episode. We got some good nuggets here and there, but SM is the most insufferable series in terms of humor. And they run pretty much every single joke into the ground.
-Dishonorable mention to Lillie's English VA. Her performance was... not great. I only mention this because my oldest niece had a brief obsession where she talked just like Lillie. It was so freaking obnoxious, and I had to listen to it morning, noon and night. But SM was her favorite series and she loved Lillie, so what can you do?
Journeys: I can't use "lack of team screentime" since BW beat it there. And I can't say "underdeveloped/underutilized recurring characters," since every single series does that. Maybe it's the worst at showcasing its generation. I know it's meant to be about all the regions, but Galar, its story (such as it is), its characters and Pokemon are barely involved. I'm not too fussed, since SwSh had some of the worst character designs in the series, for both humans and Pokemon. I'm glad we didn't get a lot of these hideous freaks, stinking up the screen. But what about Nessa, Bede, Kabu and... I guess that it's it for humans. But I wanted to see the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra get adaptations.
OS - Johto: Time-wasting. Who thought it was a good idea to devote 50% of the series to fillers. And not just fillers, but fillers with the same few plots, repeated over and over again? Misty and Brock did almost nothing, despite all the time they had. We barely got any development for the Pokemon. Like four years and barely anything happened.
AG: Team Rocket. The fatigue was starting to set in, and they felt more and more pointless in this saga.
DP: It's a tie between pacing and animation.
-Pacing. Things didn't need to be this slow or drawn out, with so little happening between big events. The Ash/Paul rivalry got pretty dull because they had to keep it lopsided for so long. This show was aggravating to watch week after week, though it's better as a binge.
-Animation. At least SM's style, as bad as it could be sometimes, lent itself well to the feel of the show. But DP was just plain fugly. Characters were constantly off-model, eyes were off, the backgrounds were bad.
-Originally, I was going to say fillers; DP had some horrendously bad fillers. But the final year of the show did a complete 180 and had really good fillers. Good job for fixing that.
(I don't hate DP or anything. It's a pretty good series. But I was rewatching some episodes recently and a lot of things came rushing back.)
BW: Team Spotlight. So they give Ash so many great Pokemon - in terms of unique species, or personalities, or battle styles, whatever. Rotation would be a fantastic way to break up the monotony of these 3+ year seasons, and could potentially cut down on fillers. And then most of them barely get any screentime, despite having three years and a buttload of time to develop them. Why did Palpitoad get cucked out of screentime for so long? Why not use him against Clay, instead of the Pokemon that has a weakness to Ground and no moves to counter it? You focused on Pignite's old trainer, but what about Snivy's? Leavanny evolved through friendship, yet it barely had any scenes with Ash.
XY: Ash was at his worst here. Yeah, he was strong. But he was so incredibly bland, personality-wise. He had mediocre chemistry with just about everyone, and it felt like a blatant self-insert. There were good moments and he was able to act as a catalyst for a few characters' stories, but these characters were basically getting blood from a stone.
SM:
-The humor. In an anime that constantly overuses jokes, this series' humor got stale by the second episode. We got some good nuggets here and there, but SM is the most insufferable series in terms of humor. And they run pretty much every single joke into the ground.
-Dishonorable mention to Lillie's English VA. Her performance was... not great. I only mention this because my oldest niece had a brief obsession where she talked just like Lillie. It was so freaking obnoxious, and I had to listen to it morning, noon and night. But SM was her favorite series and she loved Lillie, so what can you do?
Journeys: I can't use "lack of team screentime" since BW beat it there. And I can't say "underdeveloped/underutilized recurring characters," since every single series does that. Maybe it's the worst at showcasing its generation. I know it's meant to be about all the regions, but Galar, its story (such as it is), its characters and Pokemon are barely involved. I'm not too fussed, since SwSh had some of the worst character designs in the series, for both humans and Pokemon. I'm glad we didn't get a lot of these hideous freaks, stinking up the screen. But what about Nessa, Bede, Kabu and... I guess that it's it for humans. But I wanted to see the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra get adaptations.
I chalk it up to several things:
- Most characters in the show had standard eyes, eyes that were more expressive, or eyes that really suited them. Unless his eyes were going wide or we got a good close-up, Ash's eyes were a radical departure from the last 2 seasons and the next one. They were also very different from the standard Pokemon styles.
- The little thingies on his cheek were were too wide and stretched out. Sometimes, it looked like he had a weird moustache.
- His spikey hair used to actually be spikey, but they were rounded off here. It's weird. And it only applies to him, because the other characters look similar to how they did in the Gen 7 games.
- His clothes were simpler than much of the main cast's, imo. He had a basic look compared to everyone else.
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I think:
OS Kanto: Battles. Pokemon personalities except Pikachu, Butterfree and Starters. Primeape should have been Ash permanent sixth pokemon.
OS OL: Tracey. Boring Character.
OS Johto. Too much Filler. Needed arcs for Ash, Misty and Brock, and more training for all of Ash Johto Pokemon.
AG: Lack of recurring Rivals to make the league more intense.
DP: Too much filler episodes. Some Pokemon like Torterra and Ambipom. And the ending with Tobias: He could have been a great recurring character, instead of a NPC.
BW: Almost Everything. From Ash and his Pokemon development, the league and rivals, the bond between the main trio... all needed a different work.
XY: Ash personality, his relationship with the other characters was bland. The conclusion: rushed league, releases, and the arcs except team flare.
SM: Balance. The change of art style, pace, tone, priorities... gave fresh air to the series, but was too sudden. They should have balanced the series main ideas with more battles and a more similar tone to XY sometimes. The Alola Characters were an excellent group, but individually... not. Except for a few exceptions like Gladion or Guzma.
Journeys: they should have focused much more on Ash, his Pokemon team and battles in the PWC from the second or third episode, and Goh being more similar to the supporting role of Misty and Brock in the OS and not take that boring "protagonist" role: he could always being the Galar League Challenger instead of Ash.
OS Kanto: Battles. Pokemon personalities except Pikachu, Butterfree and Starters. Primeape should have been Ash permanent sixth pokemon.
OS OL: Tracey. Boring Character.
OS Johto. Too much Filler. Needed arcs for Ash, Misty and Brock, and more training for all of Ash Johto Pokemon.
AG: Lack of recurring Rivals to make the league more intense.
DP: Too much filler episodes. Some Pokemon like Torterra and Ambipom. And the ending with Tobias: He could have been a great recurring character, instead of a NPC.
BW: Almost Everything. From Ash and his Pokemon development, the league and rivals, the bond between the main trio... all needed a different work.
XY: Ash personality, his relationship with the other characters was bland. The conclusion: rushed league, releases, and the arcs except team flare.
SM: Balance. The change of art style, pace, tone, priorities... gave fresh air to the series, but was too sudden. They should have balanced the series main ideas with more battles and a more similar tone to XY sometimes. The Alola Characters were an excellent group, but individually... not. Except for a few exceptions like Gladion or Guzma.
Journeys: they should have focused much more on Ash, his Pokemon team and battles in the PWC from the second or third episode, and Goh being more similar to the supporting role of Misty and Brock in the OS and not take that boring "protagonist" role: he could always being the Galar League Challenger instead of Ash.
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Tsukuyomi56
Emblian Royalty
OS: Ash's pity badges in the Kanto arc, Johto's fillers
AG: No rival for Ash
DP: Pace felt a bit dragged out in some parts, Grotle/Torterra becoming the whipping mon after learning Rock Climb
BW: Juggling too many Pokemon on Ash's team and the league. Team Plasma was clumsily handled though it was somewhat attributed the original storyline was canned thanks to an earthquake.
XY: Ash felt a bit bland and too many fillers leaning on the Rocket Trio as the antagonists. Lack of interactions between the main cast.
SM: Development of the Pokemon of the main cast is a bit inconsistent, some arcs were rushed.
Journeys: Not a lot of focus on Galar, quality of filler episodes vary widely.
AG: No rival for Ash
DP: Pace felt a bit dragged out in some parts, Grotle/Torterra becoming the whipping mon after learning Rock Climb
BW: Juggling too many Pokemon on Ash's team and the league. Team Plasma was clumsily handled though it was somewhat attributed the original storyline was canned thanks to an earthquake.
XY: Ash felt a bit bland and too many fillers leaning on the Rocket Trio as the antagonists. Lack of interactions between the main cast.
SM: Development of the Pokemon of the main cast is a bit inconsistent, some arcs were rushed.
Journeys: Not a lot of focus on Galar, quality of filler episodes vary widely.
Mythical-Moonlight
I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
Just Out of curiosity, what Human designs did you think were hideous?
Imo the only characters I really felt fall into that category are Swordward and Shieldbert. And maybe Milo
Well I guess you could say Opal and Mustard but they're Senior Citizens so their cases are justified (plus they looked good in their prime imo)
Zweilous
Go-ing for Gold
Milo, Swordward, Shieldbert, Gordie, Avery, some of the generic trainer classes, and the uggos who made it into the show already. (Leon, Hop, Piers, and I don't care for Magnolia.) I don't like Melony, either. Opal IS ugly, but in a charming and fun way. I'd say Mustard is decent, and he looks better now than he did as an adult.
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