What do you think of Ash and Gary's friendship

[Leonhart]

The Camerupt episode made it look like Ash and Gary spent some time together as kids so I wonder what changed that made them rivals in the 1st place because even in the 1st episode we got the idea that Ash and Gary were already at odds with each other.

To be fair, I didn't think that Satoshi's side of the rivalry was that strong in the first episode. He seemed interested in Shigeru's Starter Pokemon, and it was Shigeru who declined to show it to him and he was the only one who was being rude in that interaction outside Okido-hakase's lab.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Wasn’t the broken Pokéball the cause of their rivalry?

I don't think it was the cause as much as it marked the start of their rivalry.

They didn't become rivals over the pokéball but when they finally figured they had similar goals and one would eventually have to battle and defeat the other.

 

[Redstar45]

I don't think it was the cause as much as it marked the start of their rivalry.

They didn't become rivals over the pokéball but when they finally figured they had similar goals and one would eventually have to battle and defeat the other.

True but it is better root of the rivalry as shudõ probably feel like the games or Pokemon special manga doesn't really explain why Red and Green are Rivalry from his pov .

 

[Leonhart]

True but it is better root of the rivalry as shudõ probably feel like the games or Pokemon special manga doesn't really explain why Red and Green are Rivalry from his pov .

In a way I appreciated the mystery of the origin of Red and Green's rivalry in the video games since it wasn't something that I felt needed to be explained to enjoy the games, but in the anime it would've been nice to have learned more about the fallout between Satoshi and Shigeru.

 

[Redstar45]

In a way I appreciated the mystery of the origin of Red and Green's rivalry in the video games since it wasn't something that I felt needed to be explained to enjoy the games, but in the anime it would've been nice to have learned more about the fallout between Satoshi and Shigeru.

I think in my headcanon it is part of the origin of Red and Green as Rivals to me at least.
To be honest i am bit more in the support for special manga when they did still have adventure as best friend with Blue (which i wish that anime took that idea as well ) which could definitely helped Satoshi and Shigeru actually fix their friendships even more .
Not to say Shigeru show up in the AG-Dpt arc is bad or anything like that ! I just feel like more could be done better than that with him in the long run.

 

[catzeye]

I really enjoyed the Ash and Gary's friendship and their Johto League battle is still one of my favorites of all time. Their dynamic was just antagonistic enough witohut it going overboard. Like others stated, the fact that respect came long before their final battle helped out. Plus I liked how Gary, even after dropping being an active trainer still could hold his own against Ash and still pushed (his battle frontier appearances were the best post-OS for me). I really wished that he could have been shown more after DP. I feel like he could have at least made an appearance in Sun/Moon and definitely in the new series.

I do agree wtih sentiments that the rivalry was underdeveloped a bit. Nowadays, the one thing that I prefer the Ash/Paul rivalry over the Ash/Gary one was the sheer amount of appearances and confrontations they had. I feel like we could have seen more battles between Ash and Gary prior to the final bout to build up more suspense. Also, it would be nice if he made more appearances so we could get a less rushed backstory between them.

And honestly, and Ash/Gary travelling around for the new series would be super interesting. I actually don't mind Gou as a character but I would be more invested in watching if it was Ash/Gary. Who knows maybe Ash and Gary (with Go) might get a small arc to travel around. It would be great to see the dynamic and it would be low key hilarious if Gou got jealous of Ash and Gary's friendship (considering Gou has a hard time making friends and Ash has such a strong dynamic with Gary that has a long history).

 

[EmberFireTrainer]

I really enjoyed the Ash and Gary's friendship and their Johto League battle is still one of my favorites of all time. Their dynamic was just antagonistic enough witohut it going overboard. Like others stated, the fact that respect came long before their final battle helped out. Plus I liked how Gary, even after dropping being an active trainer still could hold his own against Ash and still pushed (his battle frontier appearances were the best post-OS for me). I really wished that he could have been shown more after DP. I feel like he could have at least made an appearance in Sun/Moon and definitely in the new series.

I do agree wtih sentiments that the rivalry was underdeveloped a bit. Nowadays, the one thing that I prefer the Ash/Paul rivalry over the Ash/Gary one was the sheer amount of appearances and confrontations they had. I feel like we could have seen more battles between Ash and Gary prior to the final bout to build up more suspense. Also, it would be nice if he made more appearances so we could get a less rushed backstory between them.

And honestly, and Ash/Gary travelling around for the new series would be super interesting. I actually don't mind Gou as a character but I would be more invested in watching if it was Ash/Gary. Who knows maybe Ash and Gary (with Go) might get a small arc to travel around. It would be great to see the dynamic and it would be low key hilarious if Gou got jealous of Ash and Gary's friendship (considering Gou has a hard time making friends and Ash has such a strong dynamic with Gary that has a long history).

Their Johto league battle is one of my favorites as well. I also throughly enjoyed Ash and Gary's interactions as they were definitely opposites. Ash acted in the moment while Gary seemed to need more of a plan. I agree that their dynamic was just antagonistic enough without it going overboard or being too obnoxious. And who knows maybe he just might make an appearance in the new series. I like the idea of Ash and Gary teaming up / traveling for a short arc.

 

[EmberFireTrainer]

In a way I appreciated the mystery of the origin of Red and Green's rivalry in the video games since it wasn't something that I felt needed to be explained to enjoy the games, but in the anime it would've been nice to have learned more about the fallout between Satoshi and Shigeru.

Just what was the fallout between Ash and Gary? That's one question I've been wondering in the anime. I'd definitely be interested in finding out. It seems that they used to be really good friends at one time and then something must have happened.

 

[Redstar45]

I hadn't thought about it that way before, but it does sort of make sense that the writers had to change Shigeru's personality a bit after Kanto since his usual form of teasing would've gotten stale if he kept being rude to Satoshi for no reason.

It is why game screw up that part as that aspects not handle well in the GSC/HGSS as was supposed to be show that Green growth as the trainer and THE original content of G2 was show that he do respect Red and Sakaki (some thing as Pokemon : The Origin did his story well ) was inspiring by him and growing into a better person (did original content inspiring The the writers in AG series a idea of Shigeru Okido in following footsteps of his grandfather ?) and become one of the Four heavenly emperors

 

[SerenaRulez]

Yeah, I'm glad Gary stopped teasing Ash and had more respect for him in Johto. If he stayed how he was with teasing Ash and all the Gary was here, Ash is a loser attitude, that would get old fast and he definitely wouldn't be one of my favorite characters.

Gary would have been such a boring guy if he hadn't grown up between Kanto and Johto. I always wanted to learn more about what changed his attitude during that time but for whatever reason the writer never wanted to explore Gary's travels except in the Aerodactyl Chronicles episode that showed a little of his new quest.

 

[Leonhart]

Gary would have been such a boring guy if he hadn't grown up between Kanto and Johto. I always wanted to learn more about what changed his attitude during that time but for whatever reason the writer never wanted to explore Gary's travels except in the Aerodactyl Chronicles episode that showed a little of his new quest.

Shigeru was sort of a mystery in general back in Kanto. We didn't know much about his own journey other than he caught over 200 Pokemon and collected 10 Gym badges, but it seemed like the writers tried hard not to show his progress that often. We didn't even know which Starter he got until the Jouto League, and I would've liked to know more about what he did while Satoshi was at the Orange Archipelago.

 

[Redstar45]

Shigeru was sort of a mystery in general back in Kanto. We didn't know much about his own journey other than he caught over 200 Pokemon and collected 10 Gym badges, but it seemed like the writers tried hard not to show his progress that often. We didn't even know which Starter he got until the Jouto League, and I would've liked to know more about what he did while Satoshi was at the Orange Archipelago.

I thought that his starter was Evuil by orange islands arc end to match Pokemon special Pikachu ed version

 

[Leonhart]

I thought that his starter was Evuil by orange islands arc end to match Pokemon special Pikachu ed version

I probably thought the same thing at the time, but I'm glad that it was eventually revealed that he got Zenigame from Okido-hakase as a counterpart to Satoshi's Lizardon.

 

[Redstar45]

And that helped popularized the idea was startled in manga zesho that classic Lizardon vs Kamex still go on in Pokemon Masters and in the Pokemon The Origin anime.
So whole thing Fushibana VS Lizardon is not going to be a thing as we only had see that in the Pokemon special manga but let go ? nope as we don't really know how they were rivals or just Friends

 

[SerenaRulez]

Come to think of it why was Gary's Blastoise kept a secret for so long? Did the writers not know what starter to give him or did they actually plan that out in advance and just kept it hidden for dramatic effect?

 

[Redstar45]

Come to think of it why was Gary's Blastoise kept a secret for so long? Did the writers not know what starter to give him or did they actually plan that out in advance and just kept it hidden for dramatic effect?

Likely they weren't planning on continue it another year or so no thanks for popular of the Pokemon anime show and games. and event that know as The Electronic Warrior Polygon episode that put kids in doc room that put original anime show for delay for couple of months before they air again in late 1997-earlier 1998

 

[Leonhart]

Shigeru's choice of Zenigame as his Starter probably wasn't decided in Kanto, unless there's some evidence that it was already planned. I doubt that even Mr. Shudo had enough foresight to plan Satoshi and Shigeru's climactic battle, so even he probably didn't have Shigeru's Starter figured out in advance.

 

[jaden767]

Come to think of it why was Gary's Blastoise kept a secret for so long? Did the writers not know what starter to give him or did they actually plan that out in advance and just kept it hidden for dramatic effect?

I bet nobody planned it and it was meant to be a mystery even for the writers until they decided to write the Blastoise vs Charizard match.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

I probably thought the same thing at the time, but I'm glad that it was eventually revealed that he got Zenigame from Okido-hakase as a counterpart to Satoshi's Lizardon.

Same.

And the cool thing about Gary picking Blastoise is that the first pokémon Ash asked after arriving on the lab was Squirtle.

The whole thing is filled with irony. Ash picked Squirtle, someone else took it. Charmander was the last he tried before finding out all 3 were gone. Charizard became his powerhouse and most trusted team member post-disobeying arc. And later we find out Gary was the one who got Squirtle.

 

[Ubermuk]

I bet nobody planned it and it was meant to be a mystery even for the writers until they decided to write the Blastoise vs Charizard match.

That sounds like typical Pokemon anime planning so yeah this is probably what went down. It's why they had him use stuff like Arcanine and Nidoking instead of his starter for the longest time then they switched to Eevee.