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What do you think of the future Let's Go competitive scene?

Discussion in 'Let's Go, Pikachu & Eevee' started by shoz999, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Stuff like abilities and items served as ways to balance out Pokemon. As many of you know Let's Go isn't really competitive-focused, there is not even going to be a ratings mode like the core series games. In fact it's mirroring somewhat similarly to it's experimentally broken roots of Gen 1, perhaps more broken with Mega Evolutions staying. But who knows until the game releases. With that being said, how do you think the Let's Go competitive scene will be formed. Do you think Smogon will form tiers around this, that VGC will include Let's Go as part of it's tournaments as a separate event or will it succeed, replace, the 7th gen meta? Do you think that stripping away abilities and items will make powercreeping pretty bad here or do you think it won't? Heck, will try it out for yourself before judging it?
    The Unknown Trainer likes this.
  2. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    Pokémon itself was never really competitive-focused, but became that way as the competitive scene developed.

    Thus, I can easily see a scene forming around Let's GO. Gamers are naturally competitive, and want to be the best like no one ever was at everything. Honestly, I'm interested in seeing a scene develop myself. I might even join it.
  3. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Honestly I think it looks a little broken, in fact GameFreak clearly has no intention to market the competitive side of things. However I would be lying if I said I wasn't even a little curious to how things would play out. I'm especially curious how this might play out in the Worlds. I'm going to guess they are going to keep Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon for VGC since it still represent over 800+ Pokemon while keeping a Let's Go competitive section on the side, kind of like Pokken Tournament.
  4. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    This would be the first (and only) time I would ever consider tiers, because you are right, this game is incredibly broken from a competitive standpoint.

    I can easily see all megas being banned within fan tiers and metas, just for the sake of balancing things. However, I think that the lack of abilities itself balances things out among the megas, as many of them depended on their abilities, Kangaskhan and Charizard especially.

    What I'm most excited for is seeing the development of tiers for this game. I'm interested in seeing which pokemon ends up on top. In Gen 1, Cloyster was one of the strongest non-legendary pokemon. I wonder how that will play out now.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
    shoz999 likes this.
  5. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    With such a small roster I honestly expect it to stagnate really quickly. For like a month or two it’ll be interesting to see how things fare with no held items or abilities but I feel like because of the lack of variety it’ll die off really fast and just be really boring. It’s like how RBY competitive doesn’t change, it’s basically solved. Because the mechanics aren’t really different to the modern era I’m expecting this but worse.
  6. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    I don't expect a meta to form at all, I think it'd be too much of a bother to try and get battles beyond just your local friends. In USUM you can just go to the Battle Spot if you want battles and you can quickly get battles against a lot of different opponents to see how your team fares. In Let's Go you first have to manually find an opponent online, for example through Serebii Discord or forums, agree on a time, agree on rules, exchange friend codes, and then hope that the other person shows up. If you want to get like a dozen battles against different opponents for a bit of practice and discover weaknesses in your team it's going to take forever to find them.

    Cloyster is going to be among the weakest. Back in the days Cloyster was good because there was no special defence stat yet so it could take the occasional special attack, Clamp was broken in that it prevented the enemy from moving, and Blizzard was 90% accurate. In gen 2, it functioned as a Spikes setter. Nowadays it functions by using a Shell Smash set with a Focus Sash and then spamming Skill Link-boosted Icicle Spear and Rock Blast. In Let's Go, it loses the Focus Sash. It loses Skill Link. It loses Rock Blast (no breeding). I think the only thing it has left is Spikes, if I'm not mistaken Cloyster is the only pokémon with Spikes in Let's Go (I doubt Meltan gets it). Of course Stealth Rock is generally better, and that didn't exist in gen 2 yet...

    Let's be honest, Mega Mewtwo is going to be the strongest out of everything, maybe only challenged by Mega Alakazam because Alakazam is faster, but Mewtwo has more bulk, more movepool, and more versatility in that it can choose whether to go physical or special during battle. Up against Mega Slowbro? Go Mega Mewtwo Y and destroy it with Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball. Alolan Muk? Go Mega Mewtwo X and destroy it with Earthquake. Amnesia Mega Slowbro might work as a Toxic-stalling wall with recovery, but it needs to have already set up before Mewtwo comes in.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  7. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    We still don't yet know the movelists for all the pokemon, so Cloyster could possibly - and quite luckily - get Rock Blast.

    True, the lack of abilities and items lowers a lot of pokemon in their rankings. Cloyster is at a major disadvantage with its low Special Defense, as well as its low HP, but its Attack, Defense, and Special Attack could prove useful in some areas. Sadly, we're still in the zone where players rush towards the strongest pokemon by default - which would in fact be Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Alakazam - so in that sense, the vibe of any given competitive scene could be killed quicker here than anywhere else, as Minedreigon stated (though I don't agree that roster size is an issue).

    Of course, it's always the gamers, never the game, that taint a competitive scene, so if players choose to pick such pokemon for the mere sake of winning a match - which to me is like punching a baby in the face and claiming you won a fight - then the scene bound to go south quickly. However, if a more sensible approach comes into play, then this could be a rather wonderful and exciting ordeal. It all depends on how we choose to go about this.
  8. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Yeah, not seeing a meta happening at least in game given the lack of battle spot options. (Or even a GTS!) Lack of a focus (even a side one) in VGC seems like a missed opportunity too.
  9. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    Sucker Punch will be a more important move than ever before because Psychic tyes will have a big and natural advantage here. Mega Beedril will be very useful probably.
  10. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Mega Beedrill is just a less bulky, slower, and less powerful version of Mega Alakazam with a worse offensive typing. Aside from hitting Clefable and revenge killing Mega Mewtwo Y there isn't much it's going to do that Alakazam just doesn't do better, Bug is one of the worst offensive typings and Beedrill lost its Adaptability. Mewtwo can also dodge the super effective bug hit by mega evolving into Mega Mewtwo X and then just hitting Beedrill with any physical move and it'll go down. The thing is, if you can only mega evolve one pokémon in your battle, why would you pick Beedrill for that over Alakazam or Mewtwo?

    The difference between base 145 speed and base 150 speed is relevant, it's a region in which some Dragon Dance pokémon like Mega Gyarados and Dragonite are going to be, meaning that Alakazam outspeeds them after Dragon Dance while Beedrill does not.

    Sucker Punch I don't see having much usage either unless it gets more widely distributed. Kangaskhan is the only one even remotely viable that gets it the way it looks now, the others are Raticate, Dugtrio, and Gengar. Gengar should stick with special attacks, Dugtrio's bulk is abysmal and it doesn't hit that hard, and Raticate is just... Raticate, the Alolan one has a base attack stat of 71 and the Kanto one of 81, it's just not hitting hard enough to be scary. Sucker Punch isn't a powerful hit, Kangaskhan could get away with it because of Parental Bond, and some others like Bisharp because of STAB, but in this lineup it's just not scary. To show what I mean:

    0 Atk Mega Gengar Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 52-62 (28.5 - 34%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

    Mega Mewtwo Y loses physical bulk when mega evolving, it's not that bulky on the physical side, and it can just stall it out indefinitely if it has Recover. Alolan Raticate is a bit scarier but still hardly a threat.

    252 Atk Raticate-Alola Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 110-132 (60.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    That's still far from OHKOing it. Meanwhile, remember that Mewtwo can fight back:

    252 SpAtk Mega Mewtwo Y Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpDef Raticate-Alola: 296-352 (197.3 - 234.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  11. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    There's hardly any competitive potential from what we've seen so far, and I do wonder if that'll negatively affect sales or if nostalgia will make players overlook this flaw.
    Sceptile Leaf Blade likes this.
  12. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    So, this kind of throws a wrench in any kind of predictions for competitive viability and tiers for this game.
  13. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    Oh right. I forgot abilities are a no-go now. Mega beedrill and Kangashkan will lose a lot of their power now
  14. Mr. Oshawott

    Mr. Oshawott Well-Known Member

    Even with their Abilities gone, Mega Beedrill and Mega Kangaskhan can still be a serious threat to most Pokemon not bulky enough to withstand their attacks or fast and powerful enough to take them out in a couple turns.

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