RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Morrison and Barry are a lot weaker than Sawyer, that's not even close (and even worse with Morrison). I can see an argument with Gary because he was Ash's first main rival with more development after the OS.
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What do you think was a better Pokémon league, the Hoenn League or the Alola league?
- Thread starter RafaSceptile
- Start date
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Barry is a better character/rival than Sawyer....but whatever I'm done with this silly debate.All that matters is that Sun & Moon took the L in another poll once again.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Barry is not nearly a better character or rival than the main rival in XY, Sawyer. In the end Barry was Paul's fodder for showing how strong Paul was, such as characters like Alain's rival in the semifinals in the Kalos League. The diference was that we know Barry as a character.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
@PokemonBattleFanatic- I think a flaw in your arguments is you disregarding the character plot and development, and conclusion of arcs, and just basing it on battles alone. That really is a mistake. The league isn't just about battles, it's also a clumination of Ash's journey. So yeah plot can matter a lot when it comes to enjoyment of a league. Ash vs Katie was the only hoenn battle I liked and it was really good but it's hard to care for as much as ash vs gladion or ash vs kukui due to Katie being a nobody. AG really had a problem when it came to rivals . Thereby Alola league imo had more satisfying moments than the hoenn league, where the Morrison battle was complete bs, Nd the Tyson battle was meh considering the ending was extremely underwhelming to see. Losing to a meowth in boots. Really added to the pain when it was that Tyson who went on to win the whole thing. So yeah @RafaSceptile does have a point with his character based arguments.
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Here we go again. Yes, it does. Better trainers mean better battles because leagues are battle-oriented tournaments, people check on their skills there what they learned throughout their journey. Also, yes it does. Better battles and even number of battles mean better league.
No, it doesn't. Just because of A vs K that doesn't mean Alola league is magically above Hoenn and Kalos lol. That'd be same if I said Ash vs Alain is in Top 3 battles thus Kalos league is close to Sinnoh or better than Hoenn league.
And that's why it's overrated series. Being in 3rd place on here I assume, doesn't mean jack. AG is still better series than SM is. Even Kanto series is.
They still won badges that automatically means all of them are way stronger than 95% of Alola competitors.
HAHAHHAHAHH. Alola league has great battle episodes? HAHHAHAH. Sure, some are, but stuff like James vs Jessie, Ash vs Hau, Samson vs Hau, even some battles that are cut in half or more are great? Lol, this is same as me saying that Greninja vs Altaria is great battle despite seeing like 1 minute of it.
That's a different system you're aiming for which you said is character development which has nothing to do with league which I already explained and God-knows how many times that league is battle-oriented system which characters shine through their strategy, battling skills and their development as battlers... So, Ash vs Guzma is not better than Ash vs Conway because of strategic assault Conway prepared and Ash countering it with Gible. More important? Ummm...no, every battle for Ash in the leagues is important..
The most recent series it was the best? Lol no, XY is better than SM, if you wanna play your game of "polls" XY > SM, lol. Being character oriented that doesn't mean it's the best series especially when anything else is lacking -- balancing it would make series the best or one of the best which is not case in SM especially with change of how anime work and adding bad comedy in it.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean jack. You can't go around and say because of on 1 battle that makes it the best series of all time, that doesn't mean jack. You don't see anyone who likes DP go around and say: Ash vs Paul DL is the best -- that means DP IS THE BEST! No, it's because of quality of entire series.
Nice contradictory there you said that people like maybe 10-11 people think it was better than Ash vs Paul which is universally accepted as the best battle. WUT? How would be something better if something is universally accepted as the best? If we go by this; that those people's opinions who say Ash vs Kukui is better than Ash vs Paul are impugned or invalid.
And your part is uuuuuuuuuuuuuugggh. Writers decided that, writers want that, this is what everyone calls "bad writing" Writers doing whatever they won't without any path to follow, like without doing some logical thinking beforehand. Ash did deserve victory way beforehand in XY, in DP, he won in BF, in Orange Islands. I hate this "writers" argument. It's bad.
Lol no it doesn't. Alola league as stated again does have good battles but most of them are bad or Ok or mediocre.Shall we go one by one? We shall go 1 by 1:
1.Ash vs Faba: Bad battle episode. Meltan defeated Hypno with 1 attack and it was more comical stuff.
2.Ilima vs Guzma: Good battle episode because Guzma used strategy and battle was nice visually.
3.Samson vs Hau: Lol bad battle episode
4.Mallow vs Lana: Bad battle episode, sure it's good character driven episode but I already said about that when it comes to league. Don't forget we're talking about battle episodes not character episodes in the league.And it's bad because Mallow didn't do much all budget went to Z moves which were lackluster to begin with. Oh look I can finish it with one move.. so cool...
5.Mina vs Sophocles: Cut out battle we have only seen like end, good aerial visuals but since it's cut, we can't really say, Ok for what we have seen.
6.James vs Jessie: lol Bad
7.Kiawe vs Acerola: Good battle episode
8. Gladion vs Lillie: bad, Lillie is not a battler it was good character driven episode but bad battle episode
1.James vs Gladion: mix with Sophocles and Mallow battle where look at Z move soo cool and battle being cut.
2.Hau vs Ash: Bad battle episode.
3.Sophocles vs Kiawe: It was fine, nothing special
4.Guzma vs Lana: Good battle episode
Now we entered endgame which nitpicking starts.
Gladion vs Kiawe at start was pretty good when it came to Silvally vs Turtonator it dumbed down, like quality of battle fell down despite being top 4 battle.
Ash vs Guzma is pretty amazing it stayed amazing from start to end.
Ash vs Gladion at start was pretty mediocre vs Melmetal vs Gladion where Melmetal was using same animation over and over despite being final round. It picked up with Pikachu vs Silvally. Not to mention to league's standards those battle were washed down because they were 2 on 2 and 3 on 3. Gladion vs Ash should've been 6 on 6.
Quality vs quantity but you compare one battle with other battles? Lol. Overall quality of AG vs SM( leagues and not) stands that AG beats SM both ways.
13 episodes long which majority battles are plain bad. Ash's victory in Pokemon conference doesn't mean jack when it comes to which league is better, you see this is a problem with people like you, if Ash lost to Gladion you all would be saying Aloal league is the worst, while I would be saying it's better than Kanto at least. Your feeling doesn't determine facts.
Guzma's battles are the only ones that actually were great. Lol.
Between those 15 battles, majority are bad.
They are good battles but Silvally vs Melmtal and Turtonator vs Silvally were pretty meh/bad.
Ash vs Hau is pretty bad battle lol.
Evolution for Pokemon don't determine which league is better or not. lol
League battles should not be forgettable unless they're super bad like Ash vs Faba or memelously bad like Ash vs Hau.. unless you're not Pokemon fan.
That also mean jack, Ash vs Katie, Morrison and Tyson battles are better than Ash vs Gladion. Actually Ash vs Morrison is worse lol but still those two battles > Ash vs Gladion -- again Ash winning doesn't mean jack.If we go by your logic: Ash vs Brandon where Ash won is way better than Ash vs Paul because Ash won BF. LMAO.
Being relevant or not also doesn't matter. Yes it's weak when it comes to characters but better when it comes to battles which is what entire point of this is.. battles not characters. League is for battling not for counseling.
Lol no, Alola league doesn't have better league episodes than Hoenn, in characters yes, in battles: lol no.
Holy crap I wasted time on this.. nah it's good since I wasn't here for a hot minute.
EDIT: Sorry for saying jack a lot, I am Jack so...
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RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
1) Unfortunately, You need characters for an anime, but You don't need Battles. Characters are as important as Battles for a Pokémon League, and characters is the reason why the Hoenn League is worse than the Alola League
2) Even without Ash vs Kukui, the Alola League is at the level of the Hoenn League or even still better, because this was finally Ash's first victory in a Pokémon League Conference, unlike Hoenn, when his lose feels very underwhelming
3) AG Hoenn Arc is not so great, the BF Arc is the good part of the Series
4) """""won"""""", we don't know if they really won those badges
5) Yes, the Alola League has at least the same number of Episodes with great Battles than the Hoenn League (Ash vs Katie, Ash vs Morrison and Ash vs Tyson in 4 episodes, such as Ash vs Kukui)
6) Not every Battle is important, right the whole skipped Kalos League? Anyways, the Leagues aren't Battle oriented, they involve characters too, and even if the Hoenn League has good Battles, is a lot weaker in story and characters than the Alola League
7) XY is better in terms of consistent Battles, but it's worse (a Lot) in characters and writing. Anyways, both have the awful writing of return and send home during the League (Goodra and Naganadel)
8) I said that one Battle with 4 Episodes did the Alola League entirely better, because before of Ash vs Kukui was still at the level of the Hoenn League
9) It wasn't contradictory, reread the sentence
10) yes, and that's why saying that Ash should win because it's the Protagonist is Bad, Ash son for his méritos for an anime perspective
11) You have basically the same number of episodes in both Hoenn and Alola League (4 episodes) with 3 extra episodes in Hoenn and 13 extra episodes in Alola, but of those Battles in Alola were more relevant than the Hoenn Battles, for example, Ash vs Guzma and Ash vs Gladio
12) The only thing that AG Beats SM in their leagues is number of 6vs6 Battles, but those 3 6vs6 Battles are worse than Ash vs Kukui, Katie was a CotD, Morrison's Battle was original but Ash's Team was nerfed for unnecesary drama and Ash vs Tyson has an awful Ending
13) The conclusion of the League is very important, that's why even the can be debatable with the Alola League as One of the Best leagues, because the Sinnoh League's final episode was bad (Even if Ash defeat Darkrai and Latios)
14) Yes, again, the conclusion is very important, Ash vs Tyson can be great, but the conclusion was Super Bad. In a similar way, the conclusion did Ash vs Gladion better than the 6vs6 Ash vs Morrison
15) Again, characters are as important as Battles, especially when the League is the conclusion of Ash's travel in the region, You need characters for this conclusión, and the Hoenn League is one of the weakest in those terms
16) Yes, the Alola League has better episodes, we got the 4 episodes long Ash vs Kukui and Ash's winning the Pokémon League is a better episode than any Hoenn League Episode because nothing was relevant or New.
In conclusión, the Alola League is better because in terms of episodes with great Battles, it has the same number of the Hoenn League (4 episodes), but unlike the other 3 Hoenn League Episodes, those 13 Alola League extra episodes have many relevant character Moments, like Guzma's backstory and his Arc, Meltan evolution, Kiawe forming a New rivalry with Gladion, Ash winning his first Pokémon League Conference, etc.
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
1.We need characters for episodes aka arc that are character driven like Aether Arc, Necrozma arc, Team Flare arc etc, not league arc which showcase like.. maybe battles? How tactical or skilled is someone, his progress as battler until the end. No lol characters are not as important as battles in the league, in other anime arcs like I mentioned: yes, in a league no. Only character trait that is important in the league is well-mentioned progression of character as tactical/skilled battler which Hoenn league showed with people getting badges while in Alola anyone could enter and they didn't show that progression except some like Guzma, Ash, Gladion. Also we don't need battles? Battles are the most integral part of Pokemon, this is same as saying DBZ doesn't need battle it has comedy. LMAO XD
2. LOL NO. Even with Ash vs Kukui it is not. HAHAHHAHA I knew it , if Ash lost this league it'd be the worst league ever? Hhhahahahah. Nice arguments 10/10. I didn't know Ash winning a league somehow makes it better than league Ash didn't win ahhahhahah. Orange League is where Ash won too, so that league > other leagues?
3.AG arc is still enjoyable and good, they introduced contests for May. Sure, TA/TM arc was bad but anything else is pretty cool.
4.They won those badges as they fought and won them.
5.Lol no
6.Already explained. Kalos league is worse than Hoenn league in that matter because it was skipped but still better than Alola league. Despite Ash vs Sawayer and Ash vs Alain beating Hoenn battles( in 1 on 1) in mostly anything that doesn't mean Kalos > Hoenn league, based on your logic it is, but here it's not, we look at everything not just end battles and certain battles. Those 3 battles trump Alola league even with Kukui battle.
7.How is writing in XY worse than SM? You obviously didn't watch XY. Writing in XY > SM.
8.Lol no, Ash vs Kukui is not on level on entire Hoenn league hahahha. 1 on 1 ( Ash vs Kukui vs Ash vs Katie) yes Ash vs Kukui is better. But Ash vs Kukui vs all Hoenn battles? Lol no. Other battles are better because pf length, strategy, battles, writing etc.
9.It was, re-read the statement
10.Isn't that what you're saying? Re-read your 2nd statement/argument hahah. You're contradicting yourself again.
11.Relevancy don't mean jack, I already explained. Also, if you wanna go technical when it comes to relevancy: Hoenn league is more memorable than Alola league because it's older. Or even worse: Kanto league is more memorable than Alola league. Ask people around and lots of them would say Ash's Krabby evolving or Charizard losing a match. Even if those people knew about Ash winning a league they wouldn't even who he fought against because they don't watch anime anymore. They stopped at OS or AG or even DP.
12.Again in 1 on 1 yes they're worse than Ash vs Kukui but all together they're better than Ash vs Kukui. Your logic implies that 60 minute battles of Ash vs Katie,Morrison and Tyson are worse than 20 minute battle with Ash vs Kukui( if we reduce fillers). That's wrong, if it's 20 min( Ash vs Tyson) vs 20 minute ( Ash vs Kukui) yes Ash vs Kukui wins, but all together, they beat Ash vs Kukui. Based on your logic: Ash vs Paul battle is somehow better than all Kalos, Hoenn battles all together. LMAO
13.It is important yes, but not as nearly as important as battles during the league and even in that final battle. Your logic implies that Ash vs Gladion -- if Ash lost would've been WORSE than when Ash won, while it's incorrect because it's be same. Ash winning/losing the league doesn't make example Melmetal vs Silvally battle better/worse or Pikachu vs Silvally, it's same. Also, it's not debatable that Alola league is one of the best, it's debatable if Alola league is better than Unova league or not. Lmao and if you wanna talk polls: Hoenn league beats Alola league.
14.Conclusion doesn't mean battle is worse than other battle. Ash vs Tyson despite Ash lost is better than Ash vs Gladion. Ash vs Morrison can be bad compared to Gladion not because Ash won but because Morrison wasn't that good in the beginning. But hey: CHARACTER DRIVEN EPISODES, AM I RIGHT? Morrison didn't wanna attack Ash because they were friends, but you don't count that.
15.Characters are important for different trait which I said million times.
16.Alola league doesn't have better battle episodes. Lmao "new" ahhahahah you're obviously one of those people think that something's new is automatically better than something that is old. LMAO. Same with relevancy. You obviously don't understand this if you think Alola league > Hoenn league because Ash winning a league and because of one battle. So if Alola battles before Ash vs Kukui were SH*T and Ash vs Gladion sucked A*S but Ash won, that still would've been better than Hoenn league based on your logic.. CLAP CLAP.
Bad conclusion. Hoenn league is better because of better battle episodes, better character progression as fighters/skill users( getting badges, them getting better as trainers), better battles( 6 on 6, double battles). Alola league is only better when it comes to character driven episodes which is irrelevant to league since league is more skill based and battle-based arc.It is funny how you use polls as some objective view( Ash vs Kukui for an example) but on here Hoenn league won but you magically disagree with it? So when it pats your back it's objectively true( Ash vs Kukui) but when it goes against your will( this) it's wrong? LOL.
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brtnvm
Giselle best girl
(You don't need battles in Pokemon but you need characters...)
Holy skitty, I stopped reading that nonsense right there. Actually it's the opposite. The battles are what the entire concept of the franchise is built on...not flat one dimension or flanderized characters
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
1) All the Arcs are Character Driven because they are the motor of the anime
2) With Ash vs Kukui, the Alola League is better, not even Close. Again, You have 2 leagues with the same number of episodes with great Battles, but the Alola League showed a Lot more during the Arc than the Hoenn League and it was a Lot more relevant
3) SM is enjoyable too, a that point that more people vote SM as their Favorite Series than AG
4) We don't know if they really son their Battles
5) Lol yes
6) Kalos is better than Hoenn even with the whole skip. The 4 episodes Battles in Kalos with Ash vs Sawyer/Alain were better than the 4 episodes Battles in Hoenn with Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson
7) Because the screenplay is awful with the exception of the Team Flare Arc, we can see this with things like how everyone loves a Perfect Ash for no reasons, Even his Rivals.
8) Ash vs Kukui 4 episodes are better than Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson by far and the other 3 Hoenn League Episodes are not son great, the only relevant thing was Tyson's Meowth backstory
9) It wasn't, reread the statement
10) Again, reread the statement
11) Ironically, the Kanto League was more relevant than than the Hoenn League (Ash's first League, Kingler evolved) that's how irrelevant the Hoenn League was. Anyways, the Hoenn League is still better than the Kanto League
12) Ash VS Paul is better than Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson, yes, One less episode, but a lot better Battle and Character, in a similar way Ash vs Kukui is better than Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson
13) Yes it's very debatable if Alola League is one of the Best leagues, because it is the League with a similar number of episodes with great battles like most of the other leagues (4-5) but it shows a Lot more about the characters than any other League in the remains 12-13 Episodes
14) Yes, the conclusion is extremely important, because it can ruin a Battle such as Ash vs Tyson. Morrison was the only decent Character in the Hoenn League, but was still a last minute rival
15) Characters are important during the 192 EP in AG and 146 EP in SM. Characters are important 100% of time.
16) A Battle with 4 episodes long, as long as the 3 6vs6 Hoenn Battles, so yes, the Alola League is better than the Hoenn League by far
Good Conclusion, Alola League is better because of better episodes Battles (Ash vs Kukui is better than Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson), better Character Driven episodes (Morrison and Tyson's Meowth vs Guzma, Gladio's rivalry and Ash winning), and because on the 13 extra episodes the Alola League showed a lot more than the Hoenn League in 13 extra episodes
No, literally you can't do an anime without characters, but you can do an anime without battles
Character driven generally means when the personalities and agency of the cast are driving and changing the story beats more often than events or formulas. This is why SM is considered the most character driven series because it often heavily downplayed or altered formulas ever present in the show in favour of just letting the cast do their own thing.
The league sticks out because they altered the rules for the Alola tournament so the event was rather unpredictable and dependent on competitors' contributions, while beforehand it had a pretty foregone professional structure made out of prestige trainers (often Ash's rivals) with the usual formula of Ash getting in some good fights but still ultimately losing late in the tournament. Not to say the previous leagues DIDN'T have some character arcs and moments but they were generally setup around this formula, not the other way round.
This can also have effect to the battle quality as well since again the battles are not foregone conclusions. SM was very hit and miss with actual choreography and intensity (especially with only one full 6v6 battle) but it did a reasonable job having the cast progress according to their skill level and how well they worked. It even made a point of having some characters like Sophocles attempt a 'crash course' of sorts after its announcement.
The league sticks out because they altered the rules for the Alola tournament so the event was rather unpredictable and dependent on competitors' contributions, while beforehand it had a pretty foregone professional structure made out of prestige trainers (often Ash's rivals) with the usual formula of Ash getting in some good fights but still ultimately losing late in the tournament. Not to say the previous leagues DIDN'T have some character arcs and moments but they were generally setup around this formula, not the other way round.
This can also have effect to the battle quality as well since again the battles are not foregone conclusions. SM was very hit and miss with actual choreography and intensity (especially with only one full 6v6 battle) but it did a reasonable job having the cast progress according to their skill level and how well they worked. It even made a point of having some characters like Sophocles attempt a 'crash course' of sorts after its announcement.
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CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
1. Yeah but different trait, like battle trait in the leagues.
2.Lol no,Hoenn league is better than Alola league even with Kukui vs Ash.
3.And again funny how you claim that but despite here Hoenn league is winning you're magically invalidating Hoenn league > Aloal league because it doesn't go according to your script. Pretty sad.
4.They did because otherwise they wouldn't be in the league. LOL
5.Nice argument, well done 10/10
6.No, Kalos league is not better than Hoenn league, 3 awesome battles can't beat like 3 awesome battles + more double battles and 1 on 1 battle.
7. Hhahhaah screenplay is awful while you're worshipping SM's screenplay ahhahah. Perfect Ash in XY while Ash basically didn't lose in SM which makes him "perfect", LMAO.Yet you don't call out that.
8. No, 1 6 on 6 battle is not better than 3 6 on 6 battles, that's a fact.Unless those 3 6 on 6 battles suck which in this case it's not a thing. Ash vs Hoenn trio are pretty good battles. I didn't know based on your logic that one great battle ( Ash vs Kukui) > 3 good battles. LMAO.
If Ash vs Kukui is 5/5 and Trio battles are at least 3.5/10. I didn't know that 5 > 10.5. I didn't know that 5 is bigger number than 10. Lmao. But 5 > 3.5 which is logically correct.
9.I re-read and answered all your points.
10. Re-read above.
11.And Kanto league is way more relevant than Alola League and so Hoenn league is more relevant than Alola league. Lmao
12. Wrong. Ash vs Paul is better when it comes to 1 on 1 and same with Kukui vs Ash. Not all together.
13.It's not even debatable and funny how you repeat stuff like you strengthen your proof/claim while int he end it just backfires as annoying and pretty bland.
14.Wrong. Ash vs Tyson is not ruined if Ash lost. Tyson is obviously stronger and Tyson went through same regime Ash did to get what he wants. Just because Ash is a main character that doesn't mean he has to win. Lmao. Tyson is as person as Ash who went through thick fog to enter Hoenn league and he won with battling gym leaders and other guys.It's called realism not plot armor. That's why Hoenn league and other leagues are pretty good.
15.Characters are important yes but with different traits depending on situation.
16. Lol no, not even close. I already explained why. Oh and again; see this poll
.Bad conclusion and repeating like 2nd-3rd time.
HAHAHHAHA LOL NO. Pokemon battles are main key factor in Pokemon anime. You can do them without characters like humans, see Mystery Dungeon.
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Leonhart
Imagineer
RafaSceptile said:
Frankly, I thought that he should've lost to someone other than Shinji at the Shinou League. It just bothered me seeing him lose to his idol, and the battle was rather one-sided compared to some of the other League battles at the time. Jun losing was simply too predictable, and the battle itself wasn't good enough to make up for that from my viewpoint.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
1. Yeah but different trait, like battle trait in the leagues.
2.Lol no,Hoenn league is better than Alola league even with Kukui vs Ash.
3.And again funny how you claim that but despite here Hoenn league is winning you're magically invalidating Hoenn league > Aloal league because it doesn't go according to your script. Pretty sad.
4.They did because otherwise they wouldn't be in the league. LOL
5.Nice argument, well done 10/10
6.No, Kalos league is not better than Hoenn league, 3 awesome battles can't beat like 3 awesome battles + more double battles and 1 on 1 battle.
7. Hhahhaah screenplay is awful while you're worshipping SM's screenplay ahhahah. Perfect Ash in XY while Ash basically didn't lose in SM which makes him "perfect", LMAO.Yet you don't call out that.
8. No, 1 6 on 6 battle is not better than 3 6 on 6 battles, that's a fact.Unless those 3 6 on 6 battles suck which in this case it's not a thing. Ash vs Hoenn trio are pretty good battles. I didn't know based on your logic that one great battle ( Ash vs Kukui) > 3 good battles. LMAO.
If Ash vs Kukui is 5/5 and Trio battles are at least 3.5/10. I didn't know that 5 > 10.5. I didn't know that 5 is bigger number than 10. Lmao. But 5 > 3.5 which is logically correct.
9.I re-read and answered all your points.
10. Re-read above.
11.And Kanto league is way more relevant than Alola League and so Hoenn league is more relevant than Alola league. Lmao
12. Wrong. Ash vs Paul is better when it comes to 1 on 1 and same with Kukui vs Ash. Not all together.
13.It's not even debatable and funny how you repeat stuff like you strengthen your proof/claim while int he end it just backfires as annoying and pretty bland.
14.Wrong. Ash vs Tyson is not ruined if Ash lost. Tyson is obviously stronger and Tyson went through same regime Ash did to get what he wants. Just because Ash is a main character that doesn't mean he has to win. Lmao. Tyson is as person as Ash who went through thick fog to enter Hoenn league and he won with battling gym leaders and other guys.It's called realism not plot armor. That's why Hoenn league and other leagues are pretty good.
15.Characters are important yes but with different traits depending on situation.
16. Lol no, not even close. I already explained why. Oh and again; see this poll
Bad conclusion and repeating like 2nd-3rd time.
HAHAHHAHA LOL NO. Pokemon battles are main key factor in Pokemon anime. You can do them without characters like humans, see Mystery Dungeon.
1) It's not diferent trait, both are arcs, both need characters for be good
2) No, especially with Ash vs Kukui, the Hoenn League is not even Close when this was less relevant, shorter and with less episodes with great battles
3) It's pretty sad think that Characters are less important than Battles, no matter what anime is
4) Oh yes, because Ash won 8 Battles in OS (sarcasm)
5) 2 awesome Battles with better characters are better than 3 good Battles with 2 Last Minute Rivals and a Character of the Day
6) No One in SM is falling in love for Ash, unlike Serena, Miette, Sawyer, Alain and many other characters
7) Again, 4 episodes (Ash vs Kukui) and 4 episodes (Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson), overall the SM 4 episodes are better than the AG 4 episodes
8) Kanto League is as relevant as Alola (first and last for now Pokémon Leagues), anyways, both are more relevant than Hoenn
9) The 3 episodes long of Ash vs Kukui and the 4 episodes long of Ash vs Kukui are both better by a huge margin than the 4 episodes of Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson
10) No, Tyson is a last minute rival such as many others like Ritchie, Harrison or Cameron, and the conclusion of the Battle was pretty Bad in comparison with Ash vs Harrison, that's why the Battle is not great
11) Characters are always the Main reason of the events, so, they are very important
12) It's very Close, same number of episodes with great battles and overall a Lot more of things happened in the other episodes, unlike many of the other leagues, being the exception Johto and Sinnoh, the other good leagues
Characters are always main key in the anime, not even Pokémon is the exception.
Ash vs Barry had quite a lot of potential and it should have happened during the league instead of the skipped battle where Ash uses Snorlax, in the same way that Ash vs Astrid had potential in Kalos and Ash vs Kiawe in Alola
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
1.Yes it is. Example, Lillie development arc as character as personality is different than Lillie's development as battler. According to your logic, Ash beating someone is same trait as Ash releasing Pokemon or hugging Pokemon so they don't get cold or letting Pokemon in the cave. LMAO XD
2.Less episodes with great battles. Umm no? Alola league has more episodes but less great battles, most battles are bland or OK, while Hoenn has at least 3 great battles and remaining are good battles.
3. Because that's integral part of the series. Take an example of Mortal Kombat, if you remove fatalities and make MK more character driven series, you think that's good? No. Lol. Same with DBZ, remove fighting and make DBZ sitcom with good character development, you think that's good? No. Characters are important but less because that's what Pokemon anime is about. Take Tom and Jerry and add some cool story and character driven stuff and you think T&J will be good? NO. It already happened with a MOVIE. It sucks. Tom and Jerry will always be slapstick which is awesome in that way, same with how Pokemon with battles is awesome, remove battles anime is bad.
4.That was in Kanto back when Ash was a noob, so they gave it away. Come on, dude. Do I really need to explain it? And before you go: "OOOH BUT THIS GUY IS NOOB AND THIS GUY" I just have to say Sawyer?He was a noob and still beat all badges. Ash getting badges out of pity was one thing only, you can't say it happened to XXX without any proof.
5.Umm what 2 awesome battles? Ash vs Gladion is awesome battle? No. Ash vs Gladion is good battle. It lacks awesomeness due Melmetal vs Silvally and DL vs ML Counter battle. It's still good battle and Awesome and Good battle are still not better than 3 good battles.
6.Lana and Lillie and Kiawe and Sophocles all looked up to Ash...FAIL.
7.Again, is 5 bigger than 10? Answer the question.
8.Alola league is not more relevant than Hoenn. Didn't you read what I said? Hoenn was when still many people watched anime. So technically , Hoenn is more relevant than Alola if we go by that. But if you wanna talk about another relevancy, it's wrong because all leagues are equally relevant.
9.Already explained. Please repeat more little Chatot.
10.So is Guzma and how that makes Ash vs Tyson bad but Ash vs Guzma was good..?
11.Not really, since Pokemon anime can exist without humans. Name of show is Pokemon, not Ash Ketchum. Look at MD games.Sure they are games but yes Pokemon anime can exist without humans.
12.Chatot I choose you.?
Ash vs Guzma is more of a better battle than Ash vs Gladion lol
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
1) Lillie actually had more development in the League because it was involved with Gladion and Lusamine than characters like Barry.
2) Again, the number of episodes with great battles is the same than the Hoenn League, 4 episodes. Then, You have a 3 Episodes with OK Battles vs 13 Episodes with OK Battles but with Character Moments
3) DBZ is a Shonen anime, unlike Pokémon, a Kodomo anime, and yes, in DBZ we still have Character Moments like Mr Satán during the Majinboo Arc, that's not The case with the Hoenn League except Morrison
4) We don't know if Sawyer won his badges
5) I talk about the Kalos League, Ash vs Sawyer/Alain is better by a lot than Ash vs CotD (Katie) and 2 Last Minute Rivals, and in Alola Ash vs Kukui, a Character since Episode 1 is better too
7) Again, read 2)
8) Hoenn is probably the less relevant of Ash's Leagues, with the exception of Unova. Hoenn was no progression and it feels underwhelming in comparison with the BF Arc
9) Again, read 2)
10) Ash vs Tyson was worse because its conclusion, is probably top3 of bottom conclusion of Ash's Battles in the League , being only better than Ash vs Ritchie/Cameron (and probably Hau). Ash vs Guzma was a solid Battle but with much heavy Character Moments, with Guzma's Backstory and the conclusion of the Team Skill Arc.
11) The protagonist of MD games is a human
12) That's how basically it, the Hoenn League showed a lot less in terms of Character and his 4 part of 6vs6 Battles is worse than the 4 part 6vs6 Battle in the Alola League
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
1. Yes but she didn't have battler/skill development like Barry did throughout DP. And in the league what matters is...... drum roll please.... well BATTLES.
2.I already explained that. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BATTLES WHICH ARE 3 BATTLES VS 1 BATTLE IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ITS 3-4-5-6 EPISODES. GET IT ALREADY? 3 GOOD BATTLES VS 1 AMAZING BATTLE, 3 GOOD BATTLES WIN BECAUSE OF BETTER COMBINED RATING. Seriously it's not hard to understand.
3.Wut? We're on different page there.
4.Sawyer beat Wulfric, so yes he won his badges, Ash was given badges which was one time thing.
5. Yes in 1 on 1, all together nope. Ash vs Alain and Ash vs Sawyer together is like 9/10( lower because of 2 double KO in Ash vs Sawyer) and Hoenn Trio battles are together 10/10. Still Hoenn wins by 1 point.
7. Nope you read my 2.
8.No, because in all leagues Ash gets a chance to prove himself and to battle other people who are also strong. So yes, if we go by this: all leagues are equally relevant.
9.Read my 2
10.I already stated that conclusion don't affect a how battle went. Just because Ash lost that doesn't mean Swellow vs Donphan bit was bad. LMAO or Grovyle vs Metagross or Pikachu vs Meowth etc. And I already explained why conclusion is not bad. Tyson battled hard through the league and gyms. Again, this kid is using different trait of character development instead of battler development. *Facepalm*. Ash vs Tyson is better than Ash vs Guzma.I didn't know 2 on 2 good battle is better than 6 on 6 good battle. If you said Ash vs Guzma is better than Ash vs Cameron I would be yeah:makes sense, but not Tyson.
11.It's a Pokemon, Pikachu, Piplup, still Pokemon.
12. It showed less characters driven trait but showed more battle traits and had better battles compared to Alola league. Thus, Hoenn league is better.
If we go by your logic of 4 episodes vs xx episodes that means Ash vs Kukui would be better than Ash vs Paul which is 3 episodes LMAO 4 >3? Or Ash vs Kukui is better than Ash vs Alain because 4 > 2. LOL NO.What a bland logic. We calculate battles not episodes.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
1) No, Pokémon Leagues are about characters, like every anime is about the characters.
2) We're talking about the League, so, the Alola League Episodes are overall better than the Hoenn League, including the Episodes with Great Battles (4 episodes Ash vs Kukui > 4 episodes Ash vs Katie/Morrison/Tyson)
4) Sawyer won Wulfric's badge*
5) Hoenn Trio Battle is not even Close to 10/10, because no one of those Battles were 10/10. Ash VS Kukui is 10/10 and both Ash vs Sawyer/Alain are between 9/10 and 9.9/10, still both higher than the Hoenn Battle Trio
7) no, You read my past 2)
8) No, because in other Leagues Ash has progretion but the Unova League, and in other Leagues Ash has Main Rivals, unlike the Hoenn League
9) Read 7)
10) The conclusion affect how the Battle was, such as how Ash vs Trip is one of the worse League Battles. Yes, a 2vs2 Battle can be better than a 6vs6 Battle because the 2vs2 Battle is the conclusion of a Character Arc development, the Battle itself is solid and the conclusion isn't annoying like the Ash vs Tyson was
11) It's still a human
12) The Hoenn League has the same number of episodes with great battles, (4 episodes), and overall those 4 episodes were worse than the Alola League (maybe first part of Ash vs Kukui was worse than the start of Ash vs Katie but the other 3 were a Lot better than the Hoenn Trio). Plus, in the other 13 Episodes, the Alola League showed a lot more of character Moments and Battles, when some of they were solid Battles like Ash vs Guzma, Kiawe vs Gladio and Ash vs Gladio
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
1. Re-read by statement.
2.Re-read my statement.
3.Wut?
7. Re-read my statement.
8.Ash having not having main rivals doesn't mean league is less relevant or more in context I am purposing. LOL.
9.Re-read my statement.
10. Ash vs Trip is still better than Ash vs Hau, Ash vs Faba, Mallow vs Lana etc. How it's one of the worst battles?Ash showed strategy beat Trip and battle was somewhat enjoyable. 2 on 2 battle from battle standpoint( well logically) is worse than 6 on 6 battle. I already explained billion times about conclusion and character arc. Re-read my statement.
11.It's a Pokemon.
12.Showed more battles? Yeah showed more crappy battles that basically Alola league loses a points for that. Overall, Alola league is like 7/10, while Hoenn league is 8/10. Yes I include Kukui vs Ash. Remove Ash vs Kukui, Alola league would've been like 5/10, basically on same boat at Unova league.
I didn't know 7 is better than 8. Lmao. Only in Rafa's math/universe lower number is better than bigger number.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
If the Hoenn League is 8/10, the Alola League is 9/10. The Alola League has at least the same number of episodes with great battles but in the remains number of episodes, the Alola League has much more Character Moments.
And according to my math, 7.8 is higher than 7.1, at least for those reviews:
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Wrong. Alola league is worse than Hoenn league because of less amazing/great battles and more bad battles which make league worse, same how Ash vs Cameron made Unova league worse. Alola league is only better than Kanto and Unova leagues, but worse than Hoenn, Kalos, Johto and Sinnoh league.