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What does it matter to Atheists if Christians don't believe what they do?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Lil Stew, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    Ah, it's the instinct. Especially if you're male. First, you bond yourself tightly to an idea, because it feels good to be part of a team, the team that represents this idea. Then, you want to be an important member. You start discussing and supporting this idea. Then, you try to convince members of the opposite team, or, more likely, convert them. You become a small hero of your team. Plus, you dominate, as you pwned the enemy.

    Well, you may just be a sporadic poster, looking for some serious chatting every now and then. But, for the regular debater, some unimportant dude once said:
    That's why you're here, to disagree. To engage in epic fights and win. And convert the kids who are watching. Whether you're an atheist, a capitalist, a pro-abprtionist. Not me, of course, since I am posting here because I do not care about what you think.

    The right think would be to use debating for the search of truth, so that we may conclude to the correct notion. But that's impossible, since no one is willing to leave their ideas, the ideas they grew up with. No one. Except me, of course. I will always leave a belief for one that is proven to be correct. But since I am 100% right in every aspect, I do not get in that situation.

    You like debating, lightly or seriously.
  2. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Guess what an Atheist is? A person that doesn't care. Funny how that works, right?

    Please learn what a religion is.

    Your post is fine until I saw this. I don't think a single person posts here to literally convert people outside of.. what's his name? That Trapinch dude?

    Oh yes, you are 100% right and willing to accept the truth. Only you. Of course. I must bow down to your Christian-highness.

    Tell me, what truths, and I mean real truths are there for the Christian God if you think you care so much about truth and that Atheists don't?
  3. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    Well, yes, not "literally". But it would feel good if that did happen, wouldn't it? There are aspirations.

    Huh? Who mentioned Christianity? I didn't even imply that I'm a christian here. You know that because we have debated before. I wanted to try to explain the hormones that drive people to convince and convert others. That part was, of course, not literal, but ironic. "Others are intolerant. I am tolerant, I accept other people's points if they are right, but only my points are the right ones".
  4. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    I'm still lost on why you'd say something like this, but fine. =P
  5. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    Dr. Ste was being facetious and humorous, GhostAnime. Remember when I used to pull your leg like that? Ah, good times, good times... :p

    And in regards to what thunderblade was saying, you know, it's kind of understandable why Christians or other religions might want so very much to convert nonbelievers. Babylon told me once that it was out of compassion for those nonbelievers; to help them and be sure that they'll all find eternal peace in the afterlife, or something along those lines. Now, certainly, given that a religious belief is not garaunteed to be correct, this compassion is for all intents and purposes misguided, but you have to be grateful that these people at least care. I find that rather kind of them, even though I won't actually convert.

    And one other thing, in regards to GA and Jink's points on atheism as a religion: It is pale and inadequate to define religion as just a belief structure. Obviously, there are many finer points and qualities that separate a religion from another, typical, everyday belief. Atheism, given that its belief is definite, in that it claims for certain that there is no god at all, is more than just a lack of belief in a god. Atheism is an adamant claim. So the way I see it, atheism doesn't qualify as a religion, per se, but still is a structured belief.

    Yeah, that didn't contribute much, but where else was I going to say it to make more sense? =P
  6. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    Actually, atheism isn't religion. There is no belief. Atheism is about the lack of belief. There is no belief, no organization, no annual rituals or the like. it's not a religion.
  7. Jazzy

    Jazzy Typical

    That's a debate in itself.

    It matters to me that christians don't think the way I do, because they tend to use no logic when applying their beliefs. Not all christians mind, just those good ol stereotypical fundamentalists, the kind that want I.D taught in schools, and protest against gays- things which I look at as being absolutely insane.

    I don't want these people actually working their evil agendas politically, which is what many of them do. It's a good thing we all think differently, but there's a limit.
  8. Blue Snover

    Blue Snover Cold as ice

    Well i'm a Christian because i was christened, but i'm also an aetheist because i don't follow any religion.

    I think that most people can agree on one thing though and that's a little thing called free will.

    I don't think it matters what you do or don't believe as long as you don't try to force others to believe the same as you.

    Does anyone remember the crusades, that is a prime example.
  9. Mr. Baker

    Mr. Baker Shake + Bake

    You remind me of Xerxes off of 300.......
  10. Nautilator

    Nautilator Member

    Then what would I have to be for you to consider me non-religious?
  11. Mr. Baker

    Mr. Baker Shake + Bake

    Atheism isn't a religion, it's the lack thereof, atheists don't worship anybody, so, it is in-fact non-religious

    for example: asexual organisms can't have sex; atheism is a disbelief in a higher power

    take away the parts in bold and you have the opposite idea
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  12. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    There is no debate. There are two types of Atheists, and most of the Atheists *here* lack a belief, and don't state that *NO* gods exist, but simply lack the belief in any. THAT isn't a religion.

    Of course, silly Agnostics such as Jink tend to think being Agnostic is somehow middle ground when in fact it is impossible to NOT be exclusively atheist or a theist. You either are or you aren't, but you can have a degree to it. You can be a theist that believes in a higher power (whether it's by faith, logic, or whatever), and you can lack a belief but leave the possibility, or say higher beings don't exist at all.

    Can't get in the middle of these two scenarios.

    Christened? No, sonny. Water isn't going to change what religion or stance you have on the universe. *YOU* do.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  13. Tim the turtle

    Tim the turtle Happy Mudkip

    I think there needs to be a disctinction made here between lack of belief (which you all, for some bizarre reason claim to have) and belief in the lack of something (which is what you actually do all have). You do not "have no belief" if you are an atheist, you "believe in the nonexistence of God", which is, of course, a belief. There is a very important difference there, so whilst I agree that atheism seems like it isn't a religion, you most certainly do believe something in order to be an atheist.
  14. sanjay120

    sanjay120 ?(???)?

    Rabbits will absorb their childrens' cells back into their bodies if they run into a lack of food or water.

    I counted three.

    I've always thought atheism was a firm belief in no god, and agnosticism was a lack of belief. Someone explain?
  15. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    Atheism is a lack of belief in a being. That is how it is defined. In order to be an atheists, you accept no belief in a deity. it's not a belief in no deity, but a lack of belief in one/several existing.

    Agnosticism is the middle of the road. It's where you neither believe or disbelieve in a deity. It's ultimately where you haven't decided if you believe in a deity or if you don't believe.
  16. Mr. Baker

    Mr. Baker Shake + Bake

    Being Agnostic is for lazy people.
  17. Tim the turtle

    Tim the turtle Happy Mudkip

    As I have said before, atheism is the beleif in no God, not no belief in God. There can be a "lack of belief in God" but that is only because really we aren't qualifying the statement "in God". We assume quite rightly that the "in" is just a shortening of "in the existence of". Hence we cannot say that we have a belief in the existence of God because we are atheists.
    However what we should say when we say "in God" is actually "about God". And we most certainly all have beliefs about God. Theists belief about God is that it exists, atheists belief about God is that it does not exist. As you can see from this, atheists most certainly do have a belief about God. Atheism is therefore a belief in no God, not no belief about God as you fallaciously have stated.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  18. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    I think we've had this debate before, and you said a lack of belief can also be a belief.

    But then we'd just be arguing semantics, right?
  19. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    But... but... yes, you can! =S

    Agnosticism is precisely that, an uncertainty. The belief that forms that word is "I do not know. There could be; there couldn't be- I have no idea either way."

    One way to think of it is with the saying, "the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference." Hate and love are quite polar, sure, but they're both an active, adamant emotion. Indifference is an absence. For our scenario, indifference can represent agnosticism. Of our three terms (theism, atheism, and agnosticism), agnosticism is the only belief that does not make a specific claim about the state of the divine.

    (And lol, I do not intend to imply that "atheism" and "theism" be represented by either "love" or "hate," lol. In either order! XP)

    Yes, that's pretty accurate, sanjay120.

    The first looks rather incorrect. Do you maybe have the source for that definition of atheism? >_>

    The second looks true enough.

    Wow, this is all really confusing, straightening out all these definitions. I'll repost what I and Tim the turtle have said, you guys can pick at our posts if you have differing opinions. Let's get our definitions in order so we can continue the real debate. ^_^

  20. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    No, you are incorrect. Agnosticism is about knowledge. Agnostics, by root word definition means 'No/Without knowledge.'

    This is still a lack of belief, which is a characteristic of Atheism; but not necessarily Atheism.

    You see, the thing is, with love and hate, there IS a middle ground, but with answer a question of what your belief is, you either do or you don't. There is no 'well, i sorta believe/don't believe!'

    If you answer yes to what you believe in, then you believe in an entity. If you clearly answer no, then you don't believe in an entity. If you answer I don't know...

    .. You still don't believe in any entities.

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