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What Elements of SM Do You Want Maintained in the Anime?
- Thread starter DatsRight
- Start date
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
No sir. That would be Cameron from the Unova League. 6 vs 5. Evolution mid-battle in official League (at least Krabby had the courtesy to evolve after beating its first Pokémon).
And for the record, those who care about physical victory clearly did not bother to look further than the League itself. Alain lost even before he set foot in the League. Always caring about becoming the strongest, and never stop to think of what he already has. If he loses, he won't take it well (as demonstrated by the realization that he's been duped by Team Flare). Whereas Ash would be satisfied regardless of the outcome. And that is why Alain admits he never really defeated Ash in the long run.
Which reminds me, I do hope that future Pokémon series would take notes of SM treats the League as. Not as some grand, ultimate "must-win" finale but instead just a large tournament where everyone can have fun.
It would be so much tolerable that way. No more meltdowns over Ash not winning Leagues. Because really, what does winning the League change for Ash?
Doppelgänger
Superancient Member
That will never happen because the winning mentality is fundamental to Western culture. See this:
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
And that is why we're in the pinnacle of humiliation and shame thanks to "winning." But that's for real-life politics and we're not bringing that up here.
In fact, that is the reason why I came to love the Team Flare climax. It's not only epic and dramatic from a show's perspective, but it also showcase just how shallow Alain's goal really was and how he has to depend on Ash, the runner-up, for guidance when his victory in the League proves to be meaningless.
I think XY's 'moral victory' premise would have worked IF they hadn't made Ash's character so goal-centric in that particular series. They hyped up the potential league win too much and didn't really make Ash's default personality that interesting without it, so a lot of people ended up feeling gipped when he lost regardless of the meaningful story segregation for once.
This does appear to be something they learned from with SM, making Ash far less centred around the league goal and playing off this region's tournament as a more laid back activity everyone can take part in, the bigger potential issue is its possible handling of the other characters, since randomly making the non-battlers as competent as Ash with zero of the same training could still be a spit in the face for those invested in his actual progression throughout the show. It's nice Ash isn't completely revolved around battling this series, but then to go 'any schmuck can do what he does easy' is a bit cruel.
This does appear to be something they learned from with SM, making Ash far less centred around the league goal and playing off this region's tournament as a more laid back activity everyone can take part in, the bigger potential issue is its possible handling of the other characters, since randomly making the non-battlers as competent as Ash with zero of the same training could still be a spit in the face for those invested in his actual progression throughout the show. It's nice Ash isn't completely revolved around battling this series, but then to go 'any schmuck can do what he does easy' is a bit cruel.
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I'm rewatching XY and it's pretty funny even from the start it just feels like the anime was building Ash up to this grand victory. No other series, except maybe early DP, gave me that same feeling. XY really did feel like it was set-up like Ash's final series, but of course they couldn't leave him here as Ash/Pikachu must be around forever.
Real shame, if the anime did conclude with XY, then the BW series would have been viewed as the only anomaly in the animes continuity, and you could have said OS/AG/DP/XY presented Ash's quest well to an end.
Real shame, if the anime did conclude with XY, then the BW series would have been viewed as the only anomaly in the animes continuity, and you could have said OS/AG/DP/XY presented Ash's quest well to an end.
XY's grand folly was trying to have its cake and eat it too, trying to heavily hype up Ash being at his prime and being able to win this time round, but then throwing the curve ball of him losing anyway for story segregation and going "Oh but see, he's the moral victor. Him losing was the entire point in the story". Fair enough writers, but you spend a whole series toying with fans like that and they're still gonna feel ripped off, especially when you don't give much alternative appeal to Ash to make him investing a character when rewatching under that revelation.
They should have let them have their cake. It seems Tomioka's grand finale was the DP series where again he couldn't have Ash win the league and do an Elite 4 challenge. Then XY was Yajima being "fresh blood" trying to do the same thing. They said back in 2013, Yajima was only 28 years old, making him one of the "fans who grew up with Pokemon" getting to direct the show. It's kind of ironic because everything Yajima did felt like the things you feel people here state where they wanted the show to be more action oriented, or a ship for Ash, etc. Yajima only being 28 years old back in 2013 was exactly what gave me the feeling, he felt like a fan who grew up with the show.
Dragalge
"Orange" Magical Girl
True them bait titles were so awful. I’m not an Amourshipper but even I know it was a dumb thing to do towards the shippers to use those titles in those two episodes.
(OK those two episodes and the final Kalos League episode title were a tiny amount compared to the rest but that doesn’t change how bad the titles were handled. And I wanted Alain to win!)
I think the problem is both DP and XY were written like "endgame" sagas, where if this was any other series, felt like they could have worked as a final saga assuming Ash was allowed to win a league. Besides maybe the end of Johto (before we knew the show would go on forever), those were both good stopping points. With the end of AG we already pretty much knew DP was coming so nobody really thought Battle Frontier would be the end, but DP and XY don't have lead ins to following saga.
As I stated in a previous thread, Johto, DP and XY all feel like 'refinement series', they take what made the last couple of series good, streamline the whole thing and put greater emphasis on a more focused and linear storyline, while the other series have way more attempts at experimenting. I have my beliefs that Gen 8 will likely be the same as the former series, looking at what worked in SM and developing it while dialling back on everything else for something more consistent, for better or worse.
I think a recurring problem with these three series is that they often push for their main focus to be the draw appeal, and everything else tends to be a heavy last priority. This means the draw appeal is heavily reliant on them making the centrepiece material good, while everything else is padding at best, and usually very lethargic padding (there's a reason these three are known for their TERRIBLE fillers). As said before the others experiment more. That means a lot more flops and inconsistencies in their main material, but things can always change up and improve. A lacking area in SM can abruptly get a tune up and suddenly be given a lot better handling, even during the very later points of the series, though another can just as easily nose dive in quality, while with DP and XY, though more consistent with what they DID want to improve, usually when something was faltering, you knew it wasn't really going to get any better, it just wasn't part of the big picture they were focusing on in those cases. The problem with XY was that fans were banking on a big formula breaker, and that series was built on a formula.
I think a recurring problem with these three series is that they often push for their main focus to be the draw appeal, and everything else tends to be a heavy last priority. This means the draw appeal is heavily reliant on them making the centrepiece material good, while everything else is padding at best, and usually very lethargic padding (there's a reason these three are known for their TERRIBLE fillers). As said before the others experiment more. That means a lot more flops and inconsistencies in their main material, but things can always change up and improve. A lacking area in SM can abruptly get a tune up and suddenly be given a lot better handling, even during the very later points of the series, though another can just as easily nose dive in quality, while with DP and XY, though more consistent with what they DID want to improve, usually when something was faltering, you knew it wasn't really going to get any better, it just wasn't part of the big picture they were focusing on in those cases. The problem with XY was that fans were banking on a big formula breaker, and that series was built on a formula.
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Redstar45
The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Well s&m is new "formula" now as they keep doing same thing over and over again
I wouldn't really say SM is repetitive, it sometimes switches between several formulas, but that still actually makes it one of the most spontaneous series thus far, especially since some episodes can still go back to the old formula. Hence why SM is a punctuation of the usual 'experimental series' by being very unpredictable in quality, much like I feel XY was one of the usual 'refinement series' by being very linear.
Redstar45
The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
......it was exhausted that experimental pretty much now as it's "unpredictable" is now 100% predictable and very in your own word linear now and it is lost it dna of the Pokemon anime show now !
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
I am not going to fault them for trying something new, but as someone who's watched the show from the beginning, SM has taken so many liberties, that they've almost broken what the genre this anime is in, this might sound cold, but pokemon were created to battle, maybe not the extreme of the mewtwo movie, but even so battles are what should be the primary thing in this show, this slice of life stuff with his classmates should be on the backburner, not the forefront like it is now.
Because the sad truth is in the end, does it really matter what becomes of anyone besides Ash and Pikachu? Since outside of a special or two we're likely not going to see them again.
Not only that, but their not even giving their own maguffin quest this time proper treatment, Ash basically beat all four Kahuna's easily, and of the four only Nanu gave him trouble and that was due to a handicap, heck the way Kakui is structuring the League makes him no better than Guzma because the way that he's doing it, so people don't have to go through the island trials is essentially telling those people "you don't even need to try."
Other than Ash hopefully getting an animation change (since he sticks out like a sore thumb) the rest of the animation is the only thing I hope stays on when gen 8 comes, I don't care if we get filler periods again, I would take that over SM anyday.
it's one thing to experiment with new things, but when you go two far and your experiment goes off the rails, it's not a good thing.
Redstar45
The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Agreed.
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Yes it does. A character's finite presence is what makes them special and honestly, more valuable than Ash in terms of what you can do with them. When you have a quick shelf life, you really don't have as narrow of a room for character development. Ash doesn't get such a luxury since he'll always need to appeal to kids and has a long shelf life.
Redstar45
The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
It is really out of questions if we are not going to be see them and you know that !
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
Yet not all of them have been well received and it usually pertains to what their goal is going to be cause if they don't have one their just dead weight despite how much personality they might have, finding one like Serena did was able to salvage her character, and right now only Lana and Kiawe have long term goals, the other three alolan cast members don't, but still no matter how much of an impact a person leaves, they still leave in the end.
Ash is representing what the player "should be doing" in the games (I say this because Alola's gone off the rails so far, you wouldn't be able to find the track back), that's why he matters more than anyone else, because if the show is going to "premote" the games then Ash is doing what needs to be done, even if is by your logic restricting.
Sure they could get rid of Ash and Pikachu (or put them in a background role) but that doesn't seem likely until he wins an actual league, why the writers won't take that step is beyond me.