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What if scenario: Ash loses the Alola league?

Galar doesn't have E4 either so does that mean Leon isn't champion of Galar region?
In the games, Galar does things differently by having Gym Leaders compete for the title of Champion to reflect soccer tournaments, whereas other regions make vague mentions that Gym Leaders can face off against the Elite Four and the Champion. Alola had no league to speak of, but Kukui was slowly preparing it and connected it to the Grand Trials as to make their tradition reflect with the league so it'd look homely. He also recruited other people to act as the Elite Four members; some were connected to the Grand Trials, while some others had the strength to prove their worth (Kahili).

...It's just that the anime really made a mess of the Alola League by making the Grand Trials completely optional attractions without enough quirky mini games. Then it took things to a stranger degree with the PWC where Galarian Gym Leaders are now shiny rivals that are pretty much the cream of the crop inducing the Worf Effect on everyone else (Ash included).
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus shall be a masterpiece
In the games, Galar does things differently by having Gym Leaders compete for the title of Champion to reflect soccer tournaments, whereas other regions make vague mentions that Gym Leaders can face off against the Elite Four and the Champion.

It's just that the anime really made a mess of the Alola League by making the Grand Trials completely optional attractions and there aren't enough quirky mini games, then it took things to a stranger degree with the PWC where Gym Leaders are now shiny rivals that are pretty much the cream of the crop inducing the Worf Effect on everyone else (Ash included).
Galar does things differently
SO DOES Alola
Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
The concept of trial captain's isn't in the anime. There are trials and grand trials though and the whole island pilgrimage as part of tradition
And there's an official league set up by the masked royal to emulate other regions and encourage more battling in Alola
Ash wins the first ever league, and beats Kukui the strongest and is called champion, a title reserved for other champions we have seen in the anime and not league winners.
Ash is both Alola league winner and a champion, stop ignoring what's said in the anime
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
In the games, Galar does things differently by having Gym Leaders compete for the title of Champion to reflect soccer tournaments, whereas other regions make vague mentions that Gym Leaders can face off against the Elite Four and the Champion.

It's just that the anime really made a mess of the Alola League by making the Grand Trials completely optional attractions and there aren't enough quirky mini games, then it took things to a stranger degree with the PWC where Gym Leaders are now shiny rivals that are pretty much the cream of the crop inducing the Worf Effect on everyone else (Ash included).
Alola having no requirements has the same reason as restaurants having promotions during their inauguration: Marketing purposes. They wanted to have as many trainers as possible so people will be interested in the next edition.
 

Pokemonfan5

Well-Known Member
In the games, Galar does things differently by having Gym Leaders compete for the title of Champion to reflect soccer tournaments, whereas other regions make vague mentions that Gym Leaders can face off against the Elite Four and the Champion.

It's just that the anime really made a mess of the Alola League by making the Grand Trials completely optional attractions and there aren't enough quirky mini games, then it took things to a stranger degree with the PWC where Gym Leaders are now shiny rivals that are pretty much the cream of the crop inducing the Worf Effect on everyone else (Ash included).
They make Ash and Gladion the finalist who completed all the grand trials, that was Alola first ever league so the bar is low, Alola league shown how first ever Champion of any region can be decided.
 
Alola having no requirements has the same reason as restaurants having promotions during their inauguration: Marketing purposes. They wanted to have as many trainers as possible so people will be interested in the next edition.
Problem is we don't get to see if that's even going to happen because the region is old and uninteresting for, ahem, marketing purposes too.
They make Ash and Gladion the finalist who completed all the grand trials, Alola is the first ever league so the bar is low, Alola league shown how first ever Champion of any region can be decided.
Those two weren't even promoting the fact they completed the Grand Trials.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus shall be a masterpiece
Problem is we don't get to see if that's even going to happen because the region is old and uninteresting for, ahem, marketing purposes too.

Those two weren't even promoting the fact they completed the Grand Trials.
That's cool and all but how is Ash not the champion? How does any of this state the contrary to what the anime literally told us?
 

Dragonsoldier77

Well-Known Member
I’m not even saying this to downplay ash’s achievement, he was the strongest In alola when he was there. But it doesn’t change that we don’t know if he actually carries a ‘tittle’ the same way the other champions have.

Nobody has mentioned it, he has never been introduced as such, and none of ash’s action has been something that comes as a result of it. All of the champions has gotten their tittle brought up so far, but not ash. Even in the one hour special where the PWC recap was styled as an in-universe PWC news roundup, iris got introduced as a champion while ash didn’t.

For all intent and purpose the ‘tittle’ has carried as much weight as the orange island ‘tittle’ in terms of affecting the narrative. That’s why i don’t think it mattered when they were deciding the format. They would’ve sent him back on badge quest, much like after the orange islands, if they really wanted to.
 

Shadao

Champion GETTO DA ZE!
I’m not even saying this to downplay ash’s achievement, he was the strongest In alola when he was there. But it doesn’t change that we don’t know if he actually carries a ‘tittle’ the same way the other champions have.

Nobody has mentioned it, he has never been introduced as such, and none of ash’s action has been something that comes as a result of it. All of the champions has gotten their tittle brought up so far, but not ash. Even in the one hour special where the PWC recap was styled as an in-universe PWC news roundup, iris got introduced as a champion while ash didn’t.

For all intent and purpose the ‘tittle’ has carried as much weight as the orange island ‘tittle’ in terms of affecting the narrative. That’s why i don’t think it mattered when they were deciding the format. They would’ve sent him back on badge quest, much like after the orange islands, if they really wanted to.
Or it could be that Ash's reputation as a strong trainer is all you need to know about him. Just like how Red is known as simply the Pokémon Trainer rather than Champion of Kanto despite the obvious fact we know he's the strongest.

As for the question itself, that was already answered with every other League. Ash moves on to the next League or tournament that's available. By this point, he doesn't really care if he wins or lose. He just wants a good heart-pounding battle that pushes him to the limits. The reaso11n why he won the Alola League was simple. He was already in champion territory by XY and there was no going back any more. Champion territory with his new team, no reserves. Now imagine a League where everyone could compete. Of course, that is the Watson explanation.

The Doylist explanation is address a misconception that brew among the fanbase because Ash didn't win the other Leagues. The idea that winning the League makes you a Pokémon Master. And that if Ash wins, the show is over.

Ever notice that during the Alola League hype, the showrunners directly address the question of Pokémon Master. And how winning isn't really everything, the most important thing is to learn? That you can learn from defeat? And that becoming a Champion is just another step rather than the endgame? All of that was to prepare the audience for both Ash winning the League and that he'll be still around for the next series. That is the true purpose of Alola. To break Ash free from the old Gym League formula and do things he would otherwise not be able to do in a strickly predictable formula. If he didn't win Alola, then the PWC would come across as a Battle Frontier copout (considering people were still fixated on winning Leagues over beating really tough masters supposedly on par with the Elite Four) rather than something Ash will naturally explore as a trainer.
 

Ryker101

Well-Known Member
Doubt anything would change long term tbh. As far as continuity goes, just remove a few trophies from his room in ep 2. I bet that if they wanted to do the PWC if he lost, they still would. Him winning Alola league was more about closing those plot threads and giving him his battle with Kukui (for Torracat’s and Pikachu’s rematches), rather than planning specifically for the next series.
 
It's not like the PWC actually has anything to do with Ash being Alola's champ, so they could've done it regardless. Still, I think they would've had second thoughts letting Ash win against Champions and E4 members if he lost a 3v3 match to someone like Gladion.

...then again, this IS the Pokémon anime, so anything's possible.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Ash won the very first Alola League Championship which really isn’t as widely impressive as winning the other regions’ Leagues. Ash had a very good chance of winning mainly because less Trainers competed in the Alola League and all of them made at least one episode appearance before the League was announced. If Ash had lost, it’d make no real difference in the long run. Galar’s League is set up differently as well but it was stated in the games to have been happening for at least a century given Opal’s age and the fact she inherited the Ballonlea Gym from her mother 70 years ago and battled Mustard for Champion of the Galar region but lost which was stated to be 50 years prior to present day SwSh. We also know that Peony held title of Galar League Championship for a bit.

So what this all means is even if Ash had lost the Alola League, the Galar League would be structured in a similar battling format only with Dynamax and Gigantamax Pokemon being allowed to be used.
 

thor94

Well-Known Member
Only Alola recognize Ash as a champion (and only for SM serie, in JN it looks all the natives were cursed with global amnesia and forgotten about his supposed status).
Otherwise in JN, it seems other regions don't recognize his title, and it is not for an excuse like "foreign region champion, so unknown". Lance, Steven, Cynthia, Alder and even Iris are officially recognized as champion even outside their own region (in BW unova recognize cynthia as sinnoh champion, in advanced hoenn recognize lance as kanto/johto champion, JN said iris is unova champion, etc).
Ash is not legally seen as regional champion in JN likely because, like for a lot of the real world fanbase, even in the eyes of pokeverse population, manalo conference because the totally lack of subscription requirements and the general low level is not seen as a true league conference.

Since no characters in JN (including alola natives) seems to recognize his new title, so losing the league wouldn't have really changed anything in the anime. But it would have really pissed of the real world fanbase to see ash can't even win a joke league mostly filled with casual trainers, tourists, kids or the corner street old grandma who entered with the family pokepet.
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
I wonder if fans would watch JN as much if Ash did lose the Alola League. I know for sport fans whenever their favorite/local team is winning the league/cup/championship it motivates them to watch their team again in the next season, hoping it would win again. But if their favorite/local team is constantly losing, the fans would be always negative, to the point they would rather cheer another team instead.

Personally, if Ash did lose the Alola League, I'll mostly call him an "eternal loser" and that the show really stick to the status quo like all the leagues before, except Orange Islands.
 
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Shadao

Champion GETTO DA ZE!
I wonder if fans would watch JN as much if Ash did lose the Alola League. I know for sport fans whenever their favorite/local team is winning the league/cup/championship it motivates them to watch their team again in the next season, hoping it would win again. But if their favorite/local team is constantly losing, the fans would be always negative, to the point they would rather cheer another team instead.

Personally, if Ash did lose the Alola League, I'll mostly call him an "eternal loser" and that the show really stick to the status quo like all the leagues before, except Orange Islands.
Well, there are a lot of fans who stick with the Chicago Cubs for over a hundred and eight years until they actually won in 2016, so I don't think it'll be that easy for fans to abandon Ash for another team.

If anything, they'll think there's some curse placed upon Ash and the only way to break the curse is to dig up a Colonel Sanders statue from the river and personally deliver to Nintendo HQ or something equally ridiculous.
 

thor94

Well-Known Member
Well, there are a lot of fans who stick with the Chicago Cubs for over a hundred and eight years until they actually won in 2016, so I don't think it'll be that easy for fans to abandon Ash for another team.
Unfortunately it is already happening, even if Ash didn't lost, several fan abandonned ash for Goh team. Mostly because Goh improve and do what most fan expected for a trainer (study, think before strike, allowed to catch a lot of pokemon even legendaries, has time to bond and train with most of them, and despite being more a researcher, in only few month or even weeks, is quickly catch ash years of experience in battle and out of the box strategy). When Ash is basically left on the road side with a pointless title everyone in universe don't recognize or care.
 

Pokemonfan5

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it is already happening, even if Ash didn't lost, several fan abandonned ash for Goh team. Mostly because Goh improve and do what most fan expected for a trainer (study, think before strike, allowed to catch a lot of pokemon even legendaries, has time to bond and train with most of them, and despite being more a researcher, in only few month or even weeks, is quickly catch ash years of experience in battle and out of the box strategy). When Ash is basically left on the road side with a pointless title everyone in universe don't recognize or care.
Idk where you see that but most fans actually had opposite reaction, think before strike? Goh rarely show anything good in battle, most fans called it sooooo boring how Goh just throw Pokeball and catch it without any difficulty specially when it comes to legendary, most fans hate that part.

Time to bond? When? Beside Galar starters Goh just put all the Pokemons at ceries park and only bring them when he need their help and need some kind of miracle for Go to bond with them on screen, wait Goh actually train his pokemons? We see that less than 1 minute probably in entire JN series, reach Ash's experience in battles? Go was pathetically weak against Moltress in JN68 while BF Ash beat 2 legendaries and you're Seriously comparing him to the Ash who was high champion level in previous series?

One of the most important part of Pokemon anime is battles which is something Goh rarely do that until he was forced to otherwise he is only about Monster ball go when it comes to Pokemon.
 
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