Zipper4242
Bewear is the most powerful being in the universe.
Where's Sinnoh in the poll lol? Not that I think anyone would vote for it. It's pretty unanimously his best league, but still...
What you just wrote basically contributes to my statement on why the Kalos League was bad. (And Alan vs Trevor was the best battle in there imo!) 2, MAYBE 3 memorable completed battles in a League that's everyone's been waiting for is bad. It was a terrible idea to rush into the League and like I said, if it wasn't for Greninja losing to Charizard in the past, there wouldn't have been much tension/pressure to begin with. At least in the Kanto & Unova Leagues, they kept the tradition of the flame being lit. Kalos League didn't even show Delia watching or anyone important to Ash aside from some random nobodys like the Furfour Trainer, which by the way, was pointless to show since that was going to make Ash late to his own battle.Doesn't matter if it was rushed because in terms of being the worst, the Kanto and Unova Leagues were far, far ahead.
Kanto League hardly had any battles which fully imvolved proper KO's. And then their was that utter disgrace of a battle named Ash vs Ritchie which is undisputedly the worst battle in the history of the Pokemon Leagues. Squirtle looses because it fell asleep due to Butterfree's Sleep Powder, Ritchie's Charmander looses because it runs away from Charizard being too scared and Ritchie recalled it, and the battle ends with Charizard taking a nap. That absolute joke of a battle in more that enough to make Kanto League the worst League ever.
Unova League turned a the rivalry climax battle between Ash and Trip(Ash's main Unova rival) into a 1 vs 1, where Pikachu win completely seemed DEM(got pummeled by Serperior in the entire battle and suddenly won out of nowhere with a combo move). An entire day pointlessly wasted with Axew getting lost. And the only full battle we saw in the League was an absurd 5 vs 6, with Ash having 6 Pokemon compared to Cameron's 5, and still suffered and embarrasing loss to that IQ>50, with an sudden evolution DEM from Lucario.
Kalos League might be bad in pacing but the completed battles we got to see there were excellent in terms of being intense and amination. Sawyer vs Tierno was one of the best 3 on 3 non-Ash battles we saw in Leagues, and Ash vs Sawyer/Ash vs Alain both were intense, exciting and amazing battles in terms of choreography, strategy and especially animation(there is hardly any doubt that those two battles were among the best animated battles in the anime).
The reason the Kalos League loss generated such enormous level of disappointment and salt was because of the false hype created by the writers by the misleading previews/titles prior to the Ash/Alain battle. Ash was for the first time in a League final, and for the first time he had a direct chance to win all. Plus that misdleading title of Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Ultimate Decisive Match!! and that raging Orange Shuriken in the previews looking like the move which will deliver the final blow. After that much false hype created by the preview, it's only logical that the viewers would feel dissapointed/enraged/betrayed/salty after the Ash lost the League. They sensed a realistic chance for the first time that Ash is finally going to win a League and accompolish his primary goal, being mislead by previews/titles, and it all went down the drain.
But if someone successfully manages to recover from the salt from Ash's Kalos League loss, it's easily understandable that Ash's Kanto and Unova League were much. much worse.
In my original post, I wasn't defending Ash losing to Cameron. If anything, I was defending his loss to Alan but in both situations, Ash "played himself" by helping Cameron register into the League at the very last minute and Ash encouraging Alan to compete despite Alan's previous disinterest which in the end, cost Ash the League win.]There is massive difference between loosing to an E4 level trainer with 6 Pokemon and loosing to an IQ>50 level trainer with 5 Pokemon, y'know.
In my original post, I wasn't defending Ash losing to Cameron. If anything, I was defending his loss to Alan but in both situations, Ash "played himself" by helping Cameron register into the League at the very last minute and Ash encouraging Alan to compete despite Alan's previous disinterest which in the end, cost Ash the League win.
Kalos, because he lost to a trainer he's repeatedly lost to. A Gary Stu too at that....
The League is where Ash is SUPPOSED to beat the trainer he never could in the past Gary;Paul;Trip, not lose to them. There's NO development in that at all otherwise.
I still don't respect anyone who places this **** higher than Sinnoh or Hoenn, and that will never change.
Also, Ash never got to battle Tierno or Trevor. His rivals who were around LONG before Sawyer and Stu showed up. AND we only got two battles that actually involved Ash fully.....
For the last time, Alain is NOT a Sue. Winning all his matches is not the equivalent of being a Sue. Alain was also manipulated by Lysandre into being his pawn and broke down upon the revelation. You wanna know what a Sue is? It's Paul. Losing only to people who are E4 or above in terms of skill, and winning the League match against Ash (you can't even deny he won, it was Electivire that stopped the ref, not Paul). Outright abuse pf Chimchar never punished. Absolutely 0 development in personality until the very last minute. Alain is Paul done right. Focusing solely on strength, and on top of that, on one Pokémon, but actually having the kindness and caring for his Pokémon aspect that Paul utterly lacked. Paul's motivations were pushed entirely off him and onto his brother, making Paul a shallow, prideful hypocrite.
Gary-Stuness Level
Tobias * * * * * * * * * * 10/10
Alain * * * * * * * * 8/10
Robert * * * * * * 6/10
Solidad * * * * * * 6/10
Paul * * * * * 5/10
XY Ash * * * * * 5/10
Zoey * * * * * 5/10
Iris * * * 3/10
Alan isn't a Gary Stu simply because he's reliant on one Pokémon especially in its Mega Evolution form. If anything, that's a flaw. Also, Alan was driven by at first, selfish desires of becoming the strongest Mega Evolution user for name sake, only to wind up getting himself involved in Team Flare when Lysandre gave him a Mega Stone & Ring in exchange for his services and his drive gradually changed to protecting the people he cares about like Manon. He has the will to win and couldn't allow himself to lose simply because he wanted to see Manon smile again and he was indirectly the reason why Hari san got sick. He tried pushing Manon away from him because he felt that was what was right to keep them safe. While he wasn't pushing his Pokémon through extreme measures like abuse nor seeing them as tools to get stronger, he has good reason for why his Charizard was strong which was through intense training and consistently battling against Mega Evolution users non stop. It was shown heavily after Hari san was in a coma and Alan wandered aimlessly with killer eyes.Yeah Paul has some stuness in him alright,he would have defeated Ash had the referee declared Infernape unable to battle considering it was on the ground for a few seconds should be and automatic win for Paul.
Paul's personality (which resembled Heero Yuy/Seto Kaiba/Part 1 Neji Hyuga) is what made him special and stood out from the rest of the crowd,the series needed something different besides the same goody two shoes/happy go lucky type of trainer and they did just that with Paul/Shinji.
Alain may have put all his focus on mainly one pokemon to make it extremely powerful but I find Paul's ability to put a good amount of focus on majority of his pokemon and turn them into powerhouses a little more impressive especially without the use of mega evolution.
Paul at least has something that drives him and that's power and wanting to win,these are two things he takes very seriously and it obviously showed throughout DP.
Alan isn't a Gary Stu simply because he's reliant on one Pokémon especially in its Mega Evolution form. If anything, that's a flaw. Also, Alan was driven by at first, selfish desires of becoming the strongest Mega Evolution user for name sake, only to wind up getting himself involved in Team Flare when Lysandre gave him a Mega Stone & Ring in exchange for his services and his drive gradually changed to protecting the people he cares about like Manon. He has the will to win and couldn't allow himself to lose simply because he wanted to see Manon smile again and he was indirectly the reason why Hari san got sick. He tried pushing Manon away from him because he felt that was what was right to keep them safe. While he wasn't pushing his Pokémon through extreme measures like abuse nor seeing them as tools to get stronger, he has good reason for why his Charizard was strong which was through intense training and consistently battling against Mega Evolution users non stop. It was shown heavily after Hari san was in a coma and Alan wandered aimlessly with killer eyes.
Alan didn't get off scotch free in the end. It was implied that he did do some time and he still can't forgive himself and admits that Ash is a better person than him and decides to get rid of the Mega Stone/Ring he was given and start from zero. The only Gary Stu I can think of is Gary when he just started his Pokémon journey. Fangirls, his own car, 10 badges, grandson of the famous professor, AND charismatic?! But noooo.... Gary barely appeared, learned from his mistakes, and became a competent professor in training. Nobody can't dislike Gary.
{Also, how is Tobias a Gary Stu? He was just a one note competitor who beat Ash with some legendaries.)
He didn't have that unbeatable aspect if he kept facing trash trainers, which he did. If anything, his Charizard in his Mega Evolution form is more of a Gary Stu.Just going to point out that from the overpowered/unbeatable aspect one can also reach a level which can make him seem like a stu from that aspect. Character/personality wise Alain wasn't definitely a stu, I'll give you that. But about from the overpowered/unbeatable aspect? In that aspect he was arguably portrayed as a stu in the whole of XY&Z main series(though not in the ME specials).
You basically proved my point there. If his Charizard in its Mega Evolution form is a stu regarding the overpowered/unbeatable aspect, a Pokemon that he uses pretty much all the time, then that pretty much equates to Alain being a stu from the overpowered/unbeatable aspect.He didn't have that unbeatable aspect if he kept facing trash trainers, which he did. If anything, his Charizard in his Mega Evolution form is more of a Gary Stu.
Not in cases of all Charizards though. Do you remember a certain Charizard disobediently taking a nap during the midst of a very important League battle, which resulted in Ash's most disgraceful and worst League loss ever(jointly with Unova), which is the topic of this thread?;006;But Charizard as a species are naturally superior than most aces. Charizard made that little ninja frog bow on the ground to assert their dominance.;006;
No, his Charizard /=/ Alan. Completely separate characters.You basically proved my point there. If his Charizard in its Mega Evolution form is a stu regarding the overpowered unbeatable aspect, a Pokemon that he uses pretty much all the time, then that pretty much equates to Alain being a stu from the overpowered/unbeatable aspect.
Simply because Ash was a trash trainer at the time? Yeah I do and do you remember a certain Charizard that made it look like Greninja was going to win only for it to get back up after stumbling a bit? Yeah, talk about getting your hype up only to crush it in a few seconds. I'd rather see Charizard take a nap than see another one of these torturing clickbait scenes. It's almost like Charizard was purposely acting like it was in trouble when it saw that Orange Shuriken... I think it turned to a Fire type move, because it had no effect.Not is cases of all Charizards though. Do you remember a certain Charizard disobediently taking a nap during the midst of a very important League battle, which resulted in Ash's most disgraceful and worst League loss ever(jointly with Unova), which is the topic of this thread?
Not really. Because Charizard was the Pokemon Alain used pretty much in each and every battle. So his Charizard being a stu from the overpowerd/unbeatable aspect just equates to Alain being a stu from the overpower/unbeatable aspect.No, his Charizard /=/ Alan. Completely separate characters.
No, but rather Charizard being a trash Pokemon at that time, who decides to disobey his trainer in such a crucial League battle, refusing to battle and deciding to take a nap in the middle of the battle.Simply because Ash was a trash trainer at the time?
Yeah I do and do you remember a certain Charizard that made it look like Greninja was going to win only for it to get back up after stumbling a bit? Yeah, talk about getting your hype up only to crush it in a few seconds. I'd rather see Charizard take a nap than see another one of these torturing clickbait scenes. It's almost like Charizard was purposely acting like it was in trouble when it saw that Orange Shuriken... I think it turned to a Fire type move, because it had no effect.
Not really. Because Charizard was the Pokemon Alain used pretty much in each and every battle. So his Charizard being a stu from the overpowerd/unbeatable aspect just equates to Alain being a stu from the overpower/unbeatable aspect.
No, but rather Charizard being a trash Pokemon at that time, who decides to disobey his trainer in such a crucial League battle, refusing to battle and deciding to take a nap in the middle of the battle.
Yeah the scene was torturously hypebait, and generated enormous amount of salt because of the misleading previews and titles. But at the end of the day, Ash and Greninja lost to an E4 level Pokemon which had pretty much swept through the entire League prior to that, defeated countless Mega Evolved Pokemon, including a E4 ace like Mega Houndoom, pretty much the strongest Pokemon in the entire anime if we exclude Champions and Lysandre's ridiculously OP Mega Gyarados, after putting up a valiant and intense fight, which lasted for 8 minutes. That's nothing to be ashamed of.
And regarding the Orange Shuriken, it was very powerful and definitely did a lot of damage, but Mega Charizard X managed to endure it because of its incredible and absurd tanking ability, it's just that simple. Do you really know that how incredible and absurd tanking feats MCX had prior?
*It tanked 2 direct hits (Flash Cannon + Meteor Mash) from Champion Steven's Mega Metagross, and came back immediately after without showing any signs of tiredness/fatigue
*It tanked a Land's Wrath from 50% Zygarde and still looked more than capable to continue fighting without showing any signs of tiredness/fatigue
So it's quite natural that it was able to tank an incredibly powerful move like the Orange Shuriken as well and still looked capable of battling. You replace MCX as the opponent with Mega Sceptile, and then the Orange Shuriken would've **** stomped it. A much weaker Water Shuriken was able to take out Mega Sceptile despite the 4x type resistance anyway.
And Charizard taking a nap seemed way worse to me than the Kalos League loss seemed way worse to me, it gets to my nerves till date. Ash loosing due to one of his disobedient Pokemon refusing to listen to him and taking a nap during a battle made it seem like Ash was a very bad trainer and gave a sense a humiliation, when it was never his fault in the first place. If a battle ends due to a Pokemon refusing to battle and taking a nap, then it pretty much defeats the purpose of a Pokemon battle.
FFS stop getting so sensitive/serious about Greninja jobbing to Charizard three times in a row.
XY Ash is only a Stu if you don’t think of him as a progression of OS - DP Ash; I do think of him as a progression of DP Ash, so he isn’t a Stu for me and anyone else who thinks similarly.JC Alain, Paul, and Tobias are NOT Stus, unless your only definition of Stu = powerful. If anything XY Ash was more of a Stu than any of them.
It was 2 times. Greninja did not faint in XYZ 23. If you want to tell someone to chill, please be factually correct at least.FFS stop getting so sensitive/serious about Greninja jobbing to Charizard three times in a row.
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