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What is maturity?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by U.N. Owen, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    Any franchise will always face the problem of a generational split if the fanbase is large enough with one party calling for a more "mature" storyline. The Pokemon anime is no different. This debate always begs the question of what is maturity, so let's define exactly that.

    What is maturity? Please, for the sake of discussion, don't say X series was the perfect definition of maturity or Y series is an example of not being mature.
  2. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Princess of Mars

    It's definitely not gory, dark scenes; that's anything but maturity. Also boring is mistaken for "maturity" as well.
    satopi likes this.
  3. It's a question I've pondered for some time, seeing as its brought up so often.

    I'm convinced that "maturity" in this instance means something different than what "maturity" actually means. I think it's a general word to describe something that is more appealing to older fans, whatever that entails.

    This is where things get vague because what's associated with a story for older audiences then becomes mistaken for "maturity". For example, it's often said that a mature Pokemon would have a deeper and more complex story, as if a deep and complex story is only ever seen in media aimed at older audiences (it's not, for the record). Likewise, people often request a broader range of issues for the characters to deal with, which again is another thing which isn't exclusive to so-called mature shows but is nonetheless a feature of them.

    Maturity is also confused with gravitas. It's noticeable that the more serious a Pokemon series takes itself, the more people you see referring to that series as "more mature". As an example, BW and SM are accused of being immature because these are shows that rarely taken themselves seriously and play up the drama and tension of any given moment. On the opposite end of the spectrum are DP and XY, which do take themselves seriously a little more often than average.

    So I think anything that has greater stakes, more drama and at least the impression of being more than just a light-hearted romp through a region is perceived as being mature. This perception is only emphasised by Pokemon's rather infantile sense of humour, meaning those light-hearted moments really drive home that it's a kid's show we're all watching. Whereas you can at least pretend that there's something more profound about the more serious moments in the show.

    To put it another way, maturity here means: something that isn't obviously for children, and can be appreciated by older people.
  4. FrozTKnight

    FrozTKnight Will ORA ORA ORA you

    Telling a deep and compelling stories while tackling subjects and real world problems that a barely touched in media aimed at kids but (could also be viewed by ids if they want sometimes).

    This is isn't limited to shows aimed at adults as there are a lot of shows aimed at "kids" which are extremely mature. The famous ones in the west are The Avatar series both series one of the best examples of how adult a show could be but at the same time keeping their childish charm at the same time.

    GoT is one example of and adult show not because of the blood, gore, sex in the show but how the story is portrayed and how the characters act, every decision made in that show by certain characters have consequences as seen in the first season.
    Denko Sekka likes this.
  5. Satoshi & Touko

    Satoshi & Touko Beautiful Morning ^^

    Some others have kind of already said it for me.

    I guess I'll just put it like this.

    A more mature Pokemon anime is for a more mature audience. Little kids can watch something else.
    Denko Sekka likes this.
  6. AznKei

    AznKei Getting ready for Pump It Up XX.

    I find ironic when I see violent and vulgar games that are rated M for Mature, but the content themselves are anything but mature.
    Shadao likes this.
  7. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist MAL is nothing more than an echo chamber

    Haven't we already had this thread? There really isn't such a thing anyway. Or at least no way to agree on a standard definition of it. I suppose the best way to put it would be having two sides who are equally right yet fight against each other. Which isn't going to happen in Pokémon, since kids' shows prefer to operate in black/white morality instead of gray/grey or even white/gray.
  8. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    My meaning of maturity (at least as far as the anime is concerned) is meaningful development for the main characters, as in subplots that result in permanent changes or progress. What I dislike is when we see situations where a character goes through some kind of epiphany, and then simply tosses it aside a few episodes later.
    Shadao and LilligantLewis like this.
  9. AznKei

    AznKei Getting ready for Pump It Up XX.

    Oh, I've seen enough of these situations in this anime. That's why I'm more careful not to fell to the writers hypes/promotions/teases, regardless what series we're in.
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  10. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Maturity is...just not something I see in the anime's format. The anime has a silly tongue in cheek formula which very often relies on suspension of disbelief. Sure it can have EARNEST elements of development, but there's a difference between that and actually trying to make the whole thing look serious or 'mature'. I think this is why very often attempts to make a cartoon franchise 'mature' often just get dismissed as being pretentious.
  11. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris Hee hee...

    To put it simply, there's no maturity in this anime. It's just a long string of strange aesops obtained from strange events that by no means are normal.
  12. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    The point of the thread was to not say if the anime is mature. The point is to define maturity so the word doesn’t change meaning whenever we argue that “XY is the most mature the anime’s ever gotten” or “M03 is the most mature movie we have” or “Romance is needed for a mature story” or other balderdash that loses meaning because the term’s definition constantly shifts.
  13. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist MAL is nothing more than an echo chamber

    "Maturity" is essentially a meaningless word in the first place. If you ask 10 people, they'll have 10 different ways to define it.
    M3 happens to be my favorite movie, but in fact the first 3 movies were all excellent deconstructions of the Pokemon franchise in different ways (playing on the core themes of battling, collecting, and companionship realistically).
    Shadao and LilligantLewis like this.
  14. Shadao

    Shadao Well-Known Member

    Maturity is something more than just adult content. Maturity is to understand the reality of the situation and how do you deal with it. They are stuff that adults would have to explain to kids. Stuff they might not understand or if they do, may not fully handle on their own. For example, Big Bird realizing that Mr. Hooper has passed away is what I considered to be mature because that deals with the subject of death rather than dancing around it. Another example would be tackling abuse and how it can psychologically affect the victims in different ways.

    If you to want to properly refer what people used "Maturity" as a term for on the Internet, then Darker and Ediger or adult-aimed is the better use of the term. Or if that's too much, just use seriousness.
    Denko Sekka, SinnohEevee and satopi like this.
  15. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    I guess I'll put my two cents in. Most of you already said what's needed to be said.

    I think maturity is a loose term that can be spun to whatever meaning that suits the situation. It's how the character deals with a dilemma and responds to it, thinking carefully on their actions and how it affects the people around them. This happens a lot in entertainment but does it make the movie/show mature? Not necessarily, it would only apply to the character or get brushed off as common courtesy. Maturity in a show can be seen as mature if it tackles hard events that are barely touched upon.

    Also, not caring if you're called mature or not. :p
    SinnohEevee and Shadao like this.
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    In fairness, I think a lot of charm and personality to the anime comes from being cartoony and childlike anyway. Sure some plots are maybe a bit juvenile, but that's not because the story lines are lighthearted and silly but simply because the execution talks down to it's audience a little too much.

    I mean some accuse even pre-school cartoons of being too dumbed down these days, while earlier ones tried introducing kids to more wit and subtle topics while still being very whimsical.
  17. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    I definitely think that the anime has thrived because of its laid-back quality, and I'd find it unnatural if edginess were added since the anime shouldn't fall to that level just to appease older viewers.
  18. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    Alain was a tryhard edgelord though.
  19. AshxSatoshi

    AshxSatoshi Ice Aurelia

    Him and Gladion but thankfully SM toned him down compared to his game incarnation
  20. AdvancedGenGenesect

    AdvancedGenGenesect Well-Known Member

    I think it really depends if the added mature feeling will actually help the anime. Take XY for example, people say ash became more mature but it made him feel like a professional gary stu anime character. I think Maturity kind of describes the way in which you handle a situation or your main reaction during one, it also means not being totally oblivious to most things.
    Denko Sekka likes this.

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