LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
If anybody was a Gary Stu it was Alain
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What is maturity?
- Thread starter U.N. Owen
- Start date
If anybody was a Gary Stu it was Alain
Satomine Night
The Power of Z!
When it comes to media, how people define "mature" seems to be more subjective, and sometimes, people's definition of it disregards the actual definition of "mature." A lot of people use "mature" to describe media that appeals to or is aimed at older audiences, probably because older audiences are themselves physically and psychologically more mature than younger audiences. But that's misleading, because maturity doesn't really have anything to do with how dark or serious something is. It has to do with either one's physical state of development (physical maturity) or one's ability to respond to the environment in an appropriate manner (psychological maturity).
(If you want a good, non-Pokémon example, Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame was a family film that was considered appropriate for young children, yet it is probably one of the darkest films Disney has ever put it, and even touched on issues such as lust.)
I agree; a lot of people confuse gravitas for maturity. A show being darker or more serious does not make it more "mature." It just so happens that a lot of works aimed a more mature (as in physically and psychologically mature) audience also happen to be darker and more serious in nature. There are plenty of works aimed at mature audiences that are not dark or serious in nature. Likewise, there are also quite a few works aimed at younger audiences that have darker and more serious themes.
(If you want a good, non-Pokémon example, Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame was a family film that was considered appropriate for young children, yet it is probably one of the darkest films Disney has ever put it, and even touched on issues such as lust.)
KyogreThunder
Call of Fate
Definitely, dark and edgy=/= mature, I think it is more related to seriousness than anything else.
I think even very light hearted franchises can touch on deeper issues with the proper amount of subtlety and substance.
Stuff like Winnie the Pooh has explored massive character deconstructions like feelings of abandonment or existential crisis, just because it's done in a whimsical way that fits the series doesn't change that.
The reason Pokemon has had so many bland stories is because it's had a comfort zone for so long and been regimented to a formula. Any time they've been left in a rather grey situation for example, they've always had some 'ticket out' like using Team Rocket or another bad guy to null out the problem. Only a small handful of stories like the third movie and the Mirage Pokemon special have even explored the heroes having to win in a manner that doesn't make a clear cut happy ending for example, or even just having them be put in situation that enforces a great deal of emotional or physical pressure without some miracle or intervention doing it all for them because 'the gesture was there'. Plot armour and unwillingness to diverge is the enemy in that area, not light heartedness.
Sure the games are darker, but the reason their stories work to their more fuller is better execution, and even then they don't try as many superficial 'dark' tricks as the anime does sometimes (eg. making the villain teams more one dimensionally shadowy and sinister and murderous, when its actually their more sympathetic, borderline pitiful traits in the games that give them more substance and depth).
Hell I could argue it's usually the more comedic series that are more liable to deconstruct these moments, just they place on some of their usual whimsicality to give it character. SM had a moment of the cast dealing with a death, not some reversible death in an action sequence, it was just their natural point in time to go and they had to accept that. The OS also had Team Rocket's rather depthful backstories that despite the goofy undertone, did a great deal to flesh them out and make them tragic characters.
Stuff like Winnie the Pooh has explored massive character deconstructions like feelings of abandonment or existential crisis, just because it's done in a whimsical way that fits the series doesn't change that.
The reason Pokemon has had so many bland stories is because it's had a comfort zone for so long and been regimented to a formula. Any time they've been left in a rather grey situation for example, they've always had some 'ticket out' like using Team Rocket or another bad guy to null out the problem. Only a small handful of stories like the third movie and the Mirage Pokemon special have even explored the heroes having to win in a manner that doesn't make a clear cut happy ending for example, or even just having them be put in situation that enforces a great deal of emotional or physical pressure without some miracle or intervention doing it all for them because 'the gesture was there'. Plot armour and unwillingness to diverge is the enemy in that area, not light heartedness.
Sure the games are darker, but the reason their stories work to their more fuller is better execution, and even then they don't try as many superficial 'dark' tricks as the anime does sometimes (eg. making the villain teams more one dimensionally shadowy and sinister and murderous, when its actually their more sympathetic, borderline pitiful traits in the games that give them more substance and depth).
Hell I could argue it's usually the more comedic series that are more liable to deconstruct these moments, just they place on some of their usual whimsicality to give it character. SM had a moment of the cast dealing with a death, not some reversible death in an action sequence, it was just their natural point in time to go and they had to accept that. The OS also had Team Rocket's rather depthful backstories that despite the goofy undertone, did a great deal to flesh them out and make them tragic characters.
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FullmetalJackie
Banned
To me maturity shows when characters are allowed to grow which isn't something that we see often in this show. I don't mind darker themes though, but those are rare too.
Satomine Night
The Power of Z!
Do you mean grow physically or grow emotionally? Because the characters have grown emotionally. Compare Ash when he started out on his journey to Ash now. In the beginning, Ash was a lot more immature and brash, and lazier when it comes to training his Pokémon. He had a much shorter temper, less patience, and didn't take criticism nearly as well as he does now. Even though he (supposedly) hasn't aged, he has grown emotionally. Even characters who are limited to a single region grow emotionally, especially the deuteragonists; and their growth is more prominent than Ash's, since their screentime is more limited.
I find it ironic that the one of the most comical regions is the one that has really put Ash in new situations and made him experience new scenarios and challenges, while one of the most serious regions was one of the most formulaic, with the permanent comfort zone reducing Ash to a hyper competent stock hero.
Leonhart
Imagineer
Even though I wouldn't be bothered if the anime's tone was slightly darker, I have a hard time imagining things changing that way especially after SM. SM has lacked maturity except for a few rare moments like when Mooland died, so I doubt that maturity in the future is on the writing staff's minds.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
The anime has alternated in tone since DP, so I doubt we can use SM as a guaranteed indicator of the tone of Gen VIII.