What is your opinion for rng? is it hack or not?

[pokemonjeff]

Its hacking just like getting your pokemon to level 100.. oh wait..

They both take time, and rng actually takes skill and knowledge. Its not cheating, its completely legit. And serebii.net/forumns is PRO rng so this thread is kind of irrelevant.

 

[Sound]

I have nothing against RNG, except when used to get shinies. Those aren't legit. Legit shinies are either ones you find at random while walking through grass, where you have a 1 in 8136 (I believe) or by Masuda method with is 1 in 1756 (In that range, right?). Your bypassing those chances by using the RNG. IVs are okay, because there's a way to bypass those statistics entirely using breeding. Shines, on the other hand, don't let you bypass the dice rolls entirely. It's a rule in game that no matter what, you can't gurantee yourself a shiny. Just because there's nothing in the programming that says so, the way it is programmed does.

 

[Excitable Boy]

I have nothing against RNG, except when used to get shinies. Those aren't legit. Legit shinies are either ones you find at random while walking through grass, where you have a 1 in 8136 (I believe) or by Masuda method with is 1 in 1756 (In that range, right?). Your bypassing those chances by using the RNG. IVs are okay, because there's a way to bypass those statistics entirely using breeding. Shines, on the other hand, don't let you bypass the dice rolls entirely. It's a rule in game that no matter what, you can't gurantee yourself a shiny. Just because there's nothing in the programming that says so, the way it is programmed does.

You're bypassing nothing with PRNG manipulation. It's entirely based on what can be generated, as its based on the game's PRNG.

 

[MedicineBalls]

I would consider any sort of manipulation hacking.

And I know I could beat some of you who RNG anyways.

 

[Excitable Boy]

I would consider any sort of manipulation hacking.

Pressing buttons is a form of manipulation.

 

[Aegon]

And I know I could beat some of you who RNG anyways.

I am so scared now.

Those who RNG are not in an exclusive group that only includes competitive battlers. You do know that, right?

 

[Beck]

I would consider any sort of manipulation hacking.

And I know I could beat some of you who RNG anyways.

Those who use the Masuda Method, or Soft Reset are also abusing, or manipulating (whatever word fits your fancy), the RNG. They just don't know they're doing it.

 

[floatzel98]

Here we go.

Yep. I don't know how many times we have had this thread.

 

[Pokemonpal7]

It's done by an external device, therefore it is external manipulation, therefore it can't be used in an official Pokemon tournament, therefore I consider it, as do Game Freak or whoever runs the Championships, hacking/cheating.

 

[floatzel98]

It's done by an external device, therefore it is external manipulation, therefore it can't be used in an official Pokemon tournament, therefore I consider it, as do Game Freak or whoever runs the Championships, hacking/cheating.

It does not use an external device. you are allowed RNG'd Pokemon at VGC tournaments and other things.

 

[Rakurai]

I wish the developers would adopt a new RNG that isn't so easily manipulated.

Kind of senseless to have things like the Masuda Method to tip the odds in one's favor when you don't even have to subject yourself to the odds in the first place...

 

[Quinnzel]

Those who use the Masuda Method, or Soft Reset are also abusing, or manipulating (whatever word fits your fancy), the RNG. They just don't know they're doing it.

Considering that the Masuda Method is actually programmed into the game code (not to mention it's existence was revealed by the man himself), I would say no. It's like saying that because I know a certain Pokémon has a greater chance of appearing in a specific area, I'm RNG abusing. You have a better chance of obtaining a shiny Pokémon with the Masuda method, but there's still no guarantee and it still takes a really really long time.

 

[Excitable Boy]

I wish the developers would adopt a new RNG that isn't so easily manipulated.

Like the RS PRNG?

Considering that the Masuda Method is actually programmed into the game code (not to mention it's existence was revealed by the man himself), I would say no. It's like saying that because I know a certain Pokémon has a greater chance of appearing in a specific area, I'm RNG abusing. You have a better chance of obtaining a shiny Pokémon with the Masuda method, but there's still no guarantee and it still takes a really really long time.

You're still manipulating the game by playing it, which is PRNG manipulation.

 

[Gelatino95]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/default/halolz-dot-com-nope.avi.gif

In response to the thread title, it's not hacking at all. Hacking is inserting data into the game that wasn't previously there. RNGing uses the software that's already there, the same software that produces every pokemon in the game, the same way. Whether or not it is cheating is really up to opinion.

I personally don't think it's cheating. Just another way to play the game.

 

[randomspot555]

It's done by an external device,

False.

therefore it is external manipulation,

If "external manipulation" is now "hacking/cheating" (two terms of which are by no means, synonyms), then the very site you're on is "hacking/cheating" by your standards. It has a full Pokedex with moves, abilities, item locations, etc... none of which was ever "intended" to be on the Internet.

Yet here you are, using it.

therefore it can't be used in an official Pokemon tournament,

False.

therefore I consider it, as do Game Freak or whoever runs the Championships, hacking/cheating.

You're wrong.

I fully respect those who consider it some form of cheating or don't like to do it. But please don't act like you're speaking in some official capacity for Game Freak. Because you aren't.

I wish the developers would adopt a new RNG that isn't so easily manipulated.

They're fully aware of how their RNG works.

Kind of senseless to have things like the Masuda Method to tip the odds in one's favor when you don't even have to subject yourself to the odds in the first place...

There's still odds when RNG manipulations is being used You don't bypass anything. Allit does, essentially, is tell you when you'll hit your goal. You'll still have to hatch eggs, answer phone calls, and do all the other crap that breeders and soft resetters do.

 

[345tom]

I personally feel it to be a bit of a cheat. I mean, if I am to understand it rightly, it is that it tells you specifically what to do and where to be to get what you want, bypassing the luck factor of the game. I mean, in game there ate ways to find out rough IVs and EVs.

It's not the idea of getting the perfect battling Pokemon, I can fully understand that some don't want to spend so long breeding them, and the chances are most of your competitive opponents will be doing it to. I don't like the idea of using it for things just considered rarities like shinies.

And for those (likely to be RNG users) saying about MMing and SRing, the difference is that still has luck involved. I honestly don't care whether you do it or not, it's the attitude of accusing people who still have the factor of luck. Don't argue 'human error' being similar to luck. You can account for human error.

As said, my main problem isn't using it, it is the attitudes of many doing it. Many try to argue that anyone doing any method is still RNG abusing. Some times it seems that they say it to make them seem less in the wrong.

 

[Beck]

I personally feel it to be a bit of a cheat. I mean, if I am to understand it rightly, it is that it tells you specifically what to do and where to be to get what you want, bypassing the luck factor of the game. I mean, in game there ate ways to find out rough IVs and EVs.

It's not the idea of getting the perfect battling Pokemon, I can fully understand that some don't want to spend so long breeding them, and the chances are most of your competitive opponents will be doing it to. I don't like the idea of using it for things just considered rarities like shinies.

And for those (likely to be RNG users) saying about MMing and SRing, the difference is that still has luck involved. I honestly don't care whether you do it or not, it's the attitude of accusing people who still have the factor of luck. Don't argue 'human error' being similar to luck. You can account for human error.

As said, my main problem isn't using it, it is the attitudes of many doing it. Many try to argue that anyone doing any method is still RNG abusing. Some times it seems that they say it to make them seem less in the wrong.

Saying such is not an attempt at justification of the means at all. I mean, honestly. If you really think about it, when you breed over 9000 eggs, you're attempting to increase your odds of hatching a shiny Pokemon. That is a forme of manipulation. Is it as "sly," "cheap," "unfair" as the "correct" or "natural" way to play? I personally don't think it makes a difference. The same goes for when you SR. Every time you soft reset you are given a new seed, in the hopes to optimize your encounter. Is that not manipulation, starting over and over again to get what you want? Just because you can't see, or don't know it's coming, does not mean it is not manipulation.

To argue that it's illegal or that it's hacking is not even remotely reasonable. Just look at the facts. The morality of manipulating the games' RNG, however, is the question being asked.

 

[Zachmac]

It's not like RNGing has that much of an effect anyway, it just makes things slightly easier. A Lucario with 27 attack/31 speed and only 10 in every other stat will do almost as well as one with 31 in every stat.

 

[345tom]

Saying such is not an attempt at justification of the means at all. I mean, honestly. If you really think about it, when you breed over 9000 eggs, you're attempting to increase your odds of hatching a shiny Pokemon. That is a forme of manipulation. Is it as "sly," "cheap," "unfair" as the "correct" or "natural" way to play? I personally don't think it makes a difference. The same goes for when you SR. Every time you soft reset you are given a new seed, in the hopes to optimize your encounter. Is that not manipulation, starting over and over again to get what you want? Just because you can't see, or don't know it's coming, does not mean it is not manipulation.

To argue that it's illegal or that it's hacking is not even remotely reasonable. Just look at the facts. The morality of manipulating the games' RNG, however, is the question being asked.

I'm fairly sure I wrote there that there is still luck involved in MMing and SRing, not that it didn't increase your chances. Is that not the idea of these methods to increase the chances? There's a difference between increasing odds and fixing the odds.

The idea of hatching 'over 9000 eggs' (I hope you meant the meme) is that after that, you can still not hatch the shiny, so it is still a long process, and requires long albeit tedious work. Plus MMing has been officially announced, so doesn't really compare as a method. But you could just as easily argue repeatedly going to the same area to catch a Pokemon is increasing your odds.

As said, I dont have a problem with using it for IVs or natures, they all have some benefit, but if it's just for the sake of an off colour, ruining its rarity, it seems rather abusive.

 

[ToothPick]

Cheating means getting all your pokemon's stats to 999. Or getting hacked Pokemon. Or getting items never released by Nintendo. RNG is not cheating.

according to you, i can make a 'legit' pokemon with pokesav and an AR, and its not hacking/cheating, since the pokemon has normal stats.......... GG