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What is your opinion for rng? is it hack or not?

Squirel Princess

Goldenrod City
shuldnt be too hard, right?
Or what am i missing?

your missing how hard it is to enter the code, the "will it mess up my game?" and the time to check all that. it takes about 30 min to hand enter a 10 line code and then you have the 100-200 line ones that it would take to make a good hack... man that would take forever
 

LiarLiarRoyaq

New Member
imho, RNG isn't hacking but it is cheating. Pokemon EV's and IV's were only meant to make it so every pokemon is individual in the beginning. Not manipulated so that you have the pokemon to be the best it possibly can be.

I really dislike the methods of "competitive" battlers ,because they've made it where it's impossible to use whatever pokemon you want and still be competitive. You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further. Telling you exactly how to build your team.

The sad fact is due to all this IV and EV "training" we've ended up with a game that was originally about the individuality of trainers and their pokemon into a game that's all about . Who abused the game mechanics the most.

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.

To those who are going to respond to this trying to say I can use the pokemon I want just in different tiers. That's a product of your need to abuse the system. It's a symptom not a cure. To those saying you can use the pokemon you want as long as i don't mind getting beaten all the time." again that's a sad creation of the pokemon world YOU created. Not an answer, getting beaten all the time because I refuse to abuse my pokemon isn't right at all. Nor is knowing that i will get single handedly wiped every time i random battle fun in any way.

I relate it to all these people in the GTS asking for lvl 9 shaymin etc. You're making pokemon multiplayer not fun. I love the single player, but I would much prefer it if I didn't have to just stick to single player for the rest of Pokemon history because I don't always have the time to set up a match with someone I know that doesn't Abuse their pokemon. Sometimes I like to just have a quick fight and stop.
 

Lineaire

Well-Known Member
I find RNGing very useful, and actually a lot of fun. It's made me play Pokemon longer than I would have, and has made the experience more fulfilling to me. Since Nintendo (or Gamefreak or both) don't seem to have a problem with it when it comes to competitions, I don't feel too bad about it. You can choose to do it or you can choose not to, but the option is available to pretty much everyone (I think?) because you can RNG on DS/DSi/3DS nowadays and not being limited to only using a DS. I'm not saying that anything is automatically fair just because everyone can do it, but still I think if you're serious about competitions it's something to consider. I love video games but I don't want to spend days breeding one Pokemon just to get it above the average. Honestly I don't feel proud of myself when I breed a Pokemon normally (to have good stats) because it's all up to the game's chance. I just end up feeling tired, feeling like I wasted a lot of time, even if the result is good. At least with RNG I have more control which is why it's so fun to me.
 
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randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Ehem, I was just stating my opinion. No need to fuss over it. Hacking can mean more than just 'an external device modifying a game save'. Now now, I don't want to argue.

Your definition of "hacking" , being anyone who uses anything other than the game to play, makes using and reading this web site's online Pokedex as hacking.

That isn't what hacking is.

You have the right to your own opinion. Not your own facts. Hacking has a strict definition. You don't get to change the definition of a word.
 

Gelatino95

Not a tool
HACK! Play the games naturally and it's a more rewarding expierience, RNG and...I don't think so :(

Tragically, hacking is not what you think it is. Whether something is considered hacking or not isn't based on how much "fun" it takes out of the game. Hacking actually has a concrete definition, and anyone who declares that RNGing = hack is undeniably false based on definition. Cheating, however, is subjective.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
I really dislike the methods of "competitive" battlers ,because they've made it where it's impossible to use whatever pokemon you want and still be competitive.

False.

You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further.

Also false.

Telling you exactly how to build your team.

Lie, also false.

The sad fact is due to all this IV and EV "training"

Which has been around since Gen I and has never been required. Don't like it? Don't do it.

we've ended up with a game that was originally about the individuality of trainers and their pokemon into a game that's all about . Who abused the game mechanics the most.

No it isn't.

Not everyone plays the game the same way. If you don't want to be hyper competitive, don't play hyper competiitve.

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.

They'll make fun of you if you use dumb sets just to get uber cool points. There's nothing wrong with using whatever Pokemon you want. But battlers care about winning. If you use something that puts you at a disadvantage, then that's dumb.

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.

Using that definition, reading this website is cheating.

To those who are going to respond to this trying to say I can use the pokemon I want just in different tiers. That's a product of your need to abuse the system. It's a symptom not a cure.

Have fun having Mewtwo go against Butterfree in your super uber cool casual game battling with no tiers.

Geez you worry about how other people play games. Stop worrying about other people. Just play the game you want to play, and let other people play it their way.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
HACK! Play the games naturally and it's a more rewarding expierience, RNG and...I don't think so :(

Who are to say it not as a rewarding experence? Using a Pokemon with Max IV's is pretty damn rewarding if you ask me.

You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further. Telling you exactly how to build your team.

Wrong. Smogon doesn't do that.

The sad fact is due to all this IV and EV "training" we've ended up with a game that was originally about the individuality of trainers and their pokemon into a game that's all about . Who abused the game mechanics the most

IVs and EVs have been around since the begining. We're just making good use of them.

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.

No one really does this, those who do repesent the minority.

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.

Says who?

To those who are going to respond to this trying to say I can use the pokemon I want just in different tiers. That's a product of your need to abuse the system. It's a symptom not a cure. To those saying you can use the pokemon you want as long as i don't mind getting beaten all the time." again that's a sad creation of the pokemon world YOU created. Not an answer, getting beaten all the time because I refuse to abuse my pokemon isn't right at all. Nor is knowing that i will get single handedly wiped every time i random battle fun in any way.

So, you're upset because you can't win even though you have tools and knowledge to do so?

I relate it to all these people in the GTS asking for lvl 9 shaymin etc. You're making pokemon multiplayer not fun. I love the single player, but I would much prefer it if I didn't have to just stick to single player for the rest of Pokemon history because I don't always have the time to set up a match with someone I know that doesn't Abuse their pokemon. Sometimes I like to just have a quick fight and stop.

So just train your damn Pokemon and stop crying. Easy fix.
 

LiarLiarRoyaq

New Member
"Strong Pokemon... Weak Pokemon... That is only the selfish perception of trainers. Truly skilled trainers battle with their favorites." -Elite Four Karen

I saw this in another person's signature. Pretty sure this show's what the makers of pokemon think of the subject.


Also, apparently while i was posting this a few people (more then likely pokemon abusers) have responded to me with nothing more then their bias towards it.

You don't think it's a problem because you do it. As for me, seeing all the competive battlers i've seen going to conventions.

Randomspot i could quote every single thing you just said and respond with nothing but false as well. It just makes you look like a douche.

IV's and EV's not being abused by people would make it where looking at this site wasn't cheating. I don't use it's stuff beyond news and the forums. As I have no need for the information on different pokemon where I can just go in game and look at it.

Mewtwo isn't a problem to deal with in my scenario due to the lack of EV and IV training. i never said good move sets were cheating as that is something we were meant to control.
It's only EV's and IV's that are ridiculous.




Also to jb08045, training my pokemon is no fix as long as IV and EV trainers are out there. Smogon exists SOLELY to show you how to make your pokemon the way they are "supposed" to be made given whatever scenario you want to use them in.

More people i have met make fun of people for using anything outside the 50 pokemon i spoke of. when you walk into any given convention and not meet a single nice trainer outside of very small children (who even then may be brats, not to mention i don't care to play pokemon with kids) that tells you something. Overwhelmingly the majority are elitist.

not to mention the way you and randomspot replied to my points does nothing more then prove my point here. any further replies to me in the tones your taking will do nothing but FURTHER prove my point here. Cause you know yelling at someone whose saying that all "competitive" trainers are negative, and elitist really goes to show just how nice you actually are.

on top of that, this argument of yes IV and EV training vs No IV and EV training never was supposed to exist in the first place. The reason we weren't suppose to know is proven in by the sheer fact they originally programmed IV's and EV's so that each pokemon was unique in it's stats, not so people could abuse the system.
 
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Gelatino95

Not a tool
"Strong Pokemon... Weak Pokemon... That is only the selfish perception of trainers. Truly skilled trainers battle with their favorites." -Elite Four Karen

I saw this in another person's signature. Pretty sure this show's what the makers of pokemon think of the subject.

Yet Karen loses to every little snot-nosed brat who comes at her, regardless of what pokemon they use. Do you have any idea how many ten-year-olds have beaten HGSS by now? Obviously she's doing something wrong.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Randomspot i could quote every single thing you just said and respond with nothing but false as well. It just makes you look like a douche.

Except everything I quoted was a flat out lie. Smogon is not some singular entity. It has never forced anyone to do anything.

IV's and EV's not being abused by people would make it where looking at this site wasn't cheating.

What constitutes "abuse"? Knowing they exist?

I don't use it's stuff beyond news and the forums.

The world doesn't revolve around you. I was just pointing out your definition of hacking means anyone who uses this site is hacking.

Mewtwo isn't a problem to deal with in my scenario due to the lack of EV and IV training. i never said good move sets were cheating as that is something we were meant to control.

Mewtwo destroys Butterfree 100% of the time in a tier-less environment.

Smogon exists SOLELY to show you how to make your pokemon the way they are "supposed" to be made given whatever scenario you want to use them in.

Smogon provides analyses based off of their competiitve metagame.

Please tell me about the time someone from Smogon punched you in the stomach and forced you to use a certain Pokemon set at gun point.

More people i have met make fun of people for using anything outside the 50 pokemon i spoke of. when you walk into any given convention and not meet a single nice trainer outside of very small children (who even then may be brats, not to mention i don't care to play pokemon with kids) that tells you something. Overwhelmingly the majority are elitist.

Newsflash: People can be jerks. For example, this guy on this forum called me a douche for no reason.

on top of that, this argument of yes IV and EV training vs No IV and EV training never was supposed to exist in the first place. The reason we weren't suppose to know is proven in by the sheer fact they originally programmed IV's and EV's so that each pokemon was unique in it's stats, not so people could abuse the system.

Prove that we were never supposed to know about IVs and EVs.

lol guess you never heard about the effort ribbon, the EV reducing berries, the vitamins that increase EVs, the feathers that increase EVs, and the IV checkers.
 
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Mankanshoku Mako

Well-Known Member
imho, RNG isn't hacking but it is cheating. Pokemon EV's and IV's were only meant to make it so every pokemon is individual in the beginning. Not manipulated so that you have the pokemon to be the best it possibly can be.
lolnope. First of all, I highly doubt you know what EV's actually are since you falsely claimed they affect pokemon when it's first caught/hatched/etc.. They don't, EV's only come into play when battling with that pokemon begins. Secondly, IVs were not made to never be discovered. Game Freak would have to be stupid to think no one would find them and learn to manipulate them for making pokemon reach their max potential.

I really dislike the methods of "competitive" battlers ,because they've made it where it's impossible to use whatever pokemon you want and still be competitive. You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further. Telling you exactly how to build your team.
Smogon isn't demanding that you build your team a certain way, they're just telling others the most effective ways to do so. People listen to them because they give good advice, unlike anti-rng morons probably swinging their level 70 Charizard in every match.

The sad fact is due to all this IV and EV "training" we've ended up with a game that was originally about the individuality of trainers and their pokemon into a game that's all about . Who abused the game mechanics the most.
Pokemon always had IV and EVs, those who work hard and are educated about playing competively have always been on top. And this isn't exclusive to Pokemon either, educating yourself about inner workings of game is always the key to success, from everything from FPSs to fighting games.

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.
That's because everything outside "the top 50"(which is a really conservative estimate on the number of good Pokemon btw) is most likely inferior and using it puts you at a disadvantage.

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.
Wrong, as I explained in my first response.

To those who are going to respond to this trying to say I can use the pokemon I want just in different tiers. That's a product of your need to abuse the system. It's a symptom not a cure.
I remember an Amazing Atheist video I watched a few months ago where a person he was arguing against said that exact same phrase. As TAA replied(paraphrasing), "That's just a catchy marketing slogan, it doesn't really mean anything. 'Coke is a symptom, Dr. Pepper is the cure!'. 'Roses are a sympton, daisys are the cure!'. 'Nintendo is the sympton, Sony is the cure!' See? You can apply it to anything."

To those saying you can use the pokemon you want as long as i don't mind getting beaten all the time." again that's a sad creation of the pokemon world YOU created. Not an answer, getting beaten all the time because I refuse to abuse my pokemon isn't right at all. Nor is knowing that i will get single handedly wiped every time i random battle fun in any way.
Sorry, but Pokemon WAS always this way and weather or it is right that working hard on your Pokemon breeds success. What wouldn't be right is that people like you who evidently are too ruled over by emotions(Pogeymanz have feelings111) and/or are too lazy to raise good pokemon were handed success while the work of those who truely care about the game went unrewarded.

I relate it to all these people in the GTS asking for lvl 9 shaymin etc. You're making pokemon multiplayer not fun.
It's plenty fun for those who aren't lazy asses.

I love the single player, but I would much prefer it if I didn't have to just stick to single player for the rest of Pokemon history because I don't always have the time to set up a match with someone I know that doesn't Abuse their pokemon. Sometimes I like to just have a quick fight and stop.
Well sorry, competitive games don't work like that. People who do care about winning exist and they aren't going to stop just because you're crying that you can't have victories as well if you don't work for them.
 
imho, RNG isn't hacking but it is cheating. Pokemon EV's and IV's were only meant to make it so every pokemon is individual in the beginning. Not manipulated so that you have the pokemon to be the best it possibly can be.

I wanna be the very best like no one ever was...

I really dislike the methods of "competitive" battlers ,because they've made it where it's impossible to use whatever pokemon you want and still be competitive. You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further. Telling you exactly how to build your team.

No it isn't. Heck, there's even things such as the Dark Horse/Lost Heroes challenges that encourage the use of lesser used Pokemon in OU.

And no, Smogon never once has forced anyone to build a team any certain way.

The sad fact is due to all this IV and EV "training" we've ended up with a game that was originally about the individuality of trainers and their pokemon into a game that's all about . Who abused the game mechanics the most.

Yes, because Game Freak gave us customizable IVs and EVs with every intent that we wouldn't try to customize them...

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.

Like who?

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.

And you know this how?

To those who are going to respond to this trying to say I can use the pokemon I want just in different tiers. That's a product of your need to abuse the system. It's a symptom not a cure. To those saying you can use the pokemon you want as long as i don't mind getting beaten all the time." again that's a sad creation of the pokemon world YOU created. Not an answer, getting beaten all the time because I refuse to abuse my pokemon isn't right at all. Nor is knowing that i will get single handedly wiped every time i random battle fun in any way.

Or you just find a niche that a Pokemon can fulfill and take advantage of it. It's not exactly unknown for lower tier Pokemon like Slowbro, Tangrowth, and Quagsire to see OU usage because they have a niche that they can fulfill uniquely. Heck, that's the reason that Gastrodon and Dugtrio jumped into OU from RU and NU, respectively.

Also, all you did with this paragraph was take two common arguments from competitive battlers and say, "Don't say this because it's your fault."

I relate it to all these people in the GTS asking for lvl 9 shaymin etc. You're making pokemon multiplayer not fun. I love the single player, but I would much prefer it if I didn't have to just stick to single player for the rest of Pokemon history because I don't always have the time to set up a match with someone I know that doesn't Abuse their pokemon. Sometimes I like to just have a quick fight and stop.

Then you do that. You don't have to have battles with competitive rules, you know.

"Strong Pokemon... Weak Pokemon... That is only the selfish perception of trainers. Truly skilled trainers battle with their favorites." -Elite Four Karen

I saw this in another person's signature. Pretty sure this show's what the makers of pokemon think of the subject.

Or Game Freak was just trying to create some kind of Robin Hood-esque Elite Four member who loves Pokemon. Whatever.

Also, apparently while i was posting this a few people (more then likely pokemon abusers) have responded to me with nothing more then their bias towards it.

Lol, "Pokemon abusers." That's cute. It's a game, dude.

Randomspot i could quote every single thing you just said and respond with nothing but false as well. It just makes you look like a douche.

Ad hominem. Try actually addressing his arguments.

IV's and EV's not being abused by people would make it where looking at this site wasn't cheating. I don't use it's stuff beyond news and the forums. As I have no need for the information on different pokemon where I can just go in game and look at it.

IVs and EVs were made customizable for a reason. EV training isn't even anything unusual. For goodness sakes, the Battle Subway Pokemon have their own maximized EV spreads. If Game Freak didn't mean for people to EV train, then why would they assign each Pokemon a specific EV yield so that you can battle certain Pokemon for certain EV gain?

Mewtwo isn't a problem to deal with in my scenario due to the lack of EV and IV training. i never said good move sets were cheating as that is something we were meant to control.
It's only EV's and IV's that are ridiculous.

EVs were made to be controlled. That's why each Pokemon has their own EV yield, so that you can battle certain pokemon for certain EV spreads. Haven't we been through this before?

Also to jb08045, training my pokemon is no fix as long as IV and EV trainers are out there. Smogon exists SOLELY to show you how to make your pokemon the way they are "supposed" to be made given whatever scenario you want to use them in.

Smogon exists solely to collect usage data on competitive battles and create balanced metagames, which they tend to do a pretty good job of.

More people i have met make fun of people for using anything outside the 50 pokemon i spoke of. when you walk into any given convention and not meet a single nice trainer outside of very small children (who even then may be brats, not to mention i don't care to play pokemon with kids) that tells you something. Overwhelmingly the majority are elitist.

Again, like who?

not to mention the way you and randomspot replied to my points does nothing more then prove my point here. any further replies to me in the tones your taking will do nothing but FURTHER prove my point here. Cause you know yelling at someone whose saying that all "competitive" trainers are negative, and elitist really goes to show just how nice you actually are.

You picked two random people debating against you and just say that because they tried to refute your points, you have some kind of motivation to discriminate against competitive players?

You remind me of someone...

on top of that, this argument of yes IV and EV training vs No IV and EV training never was supposed to exist in the first place. The reason we weren't suppose to know is proven in by the sheer fact they originally programmed IV's and EV's so that each pokemon was unique in it's stats, not so people could abuse the system.

Again, IVs is one thing, but EVs have literally nothing to do with RNG, so I don't have the foggiest clue why you bring them up.


Before you respond to this, I recommend you actually respond to my points and don't just pull another ad hominem argument and tell me that I give you reason to hate competitive battlers.
 

Froggy

Momentai
I really dislike the methods of "competitive" battlers ,because they've made it where it's impossible to use whatever pokemon you want and still be competitive.
You can use any Pokemon. Just note that the competitive community has given you all the knowledge you need incase you don't want to play blindly.
You have Smogon which is dedicated to spreading this even further. Telling you exactly how to build your team.
Smogon doesn't tell you to do anything. They just state the builds that have worked consistently. You can beat Smogon builds with homebrews because Smogon builds are predicable and homebrews are not.

It's even to the point where alot of "competitive" battlers will make fun of people who use any thing other then the 50 or so pokemon that are tournament usable.
This is incorrect. This is a stereotype placed on us. I tip my hat to those who use their own builds.

We were never meant to know how to abuse IV's and EV's so anything done to make this possible is cheating to me.
If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo recently tried to expose the player base to IV and EVs through the B/W guide.
Smogon exists SOLELY to show you how to make your pokemon the way they are "supposed" to be made given whatever scenario you want to use them in.
Smogon exists to spread their opinion. It's not fact that you have to use those builds but it is fact that those builds are tested and accurate.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
Also to jb08045, training my pokemon is no fix as long as IV and EV trainers are out there. Smogon exists SOLELY to show you how to make your pokemon the way they are "supposed" to be made given whatever scenario you want to use them in.

And you don't have to use Smogon, why complain?

Overwhelmingly the majority are elitist.

Um no, as said, some people are jerks. Just because a few were rude to you doesn't all of them elitist. Some will want to win and will do anything to do so. Other people just like the strategy that fun of out predicting the oponent.

not to mention the way you and randomspot replied to my points does nothing more then prove my point here. any further replies to me in the tones your taking will do nothing but FURTHER prove my point here. Cause you know yelling at someone whose saying that all "competitive" trainers are negative, and elitist really goes to show just how nice you actually are.

Um, you have no point. You're just going around labeling people based on some small bad experences you had.
 

Ciliano

Well-Known Member
This topic again? It's funny that this topic continues to pop up, but I still am clueless as to how to RNG in the first place. I feel that it is not cheating as you are not doing anything that alters the coding of the game to give you an advantage. RNG'd Pokemon have normal stats, so I feel that they're alright.
 

ProjectTitan313

Fire breathing moth
I vaguely recall a massive, 1000+ post thread dedicated to something similar that got locked cause it degenerated to next to nothing, generally speaking. There were, of course, respectable opinions and intelligent debate from a few users on both sides of the matter, but a lot was utter ignorance or spam.
The topic of that thread was "Is RNG Cheating?". Which was, at its heart, an intelligent question asking for the opinion of the reader on the matter.

Short story being: the point of this thread is, as best I can tell, "is RNG hacking". Bluntly speaking, hell no it is not hacking, and that is fact, not opinion. So the matter of "is it cheating?" is an opinion, the matter of "is it hacking" is a factual "no".

Also why are we bringing up the "smogon hivemind and hooded ninjas holding a dagger to your throat if you don't use TrickScarf Rotom-W" nonsense? Completely unrelated.

Now... my opinion on the matter at hand.
No, I don't believe RNG is hacking. There is absolutely no interaction with any external hardware or software, nothing is changed/edited/modified. An RNG Abused pokemon will not be hacked on any legality checker, be it Game Freak or... other online legality checkers that cannot be discussed as decided by staff to the best of my knowledge.
They are generated by the exact same, unaltered built-in algorithms. You cannot RNG a Sturdy Shedinja, you cannot RNG a Wondertomb, you cannot RNG a Cross Chop Haxorus, you cannot RNG a Shiny Reshiram.

As for RNG Reporter: yes, its an external program. No, it does not alter or interact at all with the game or DS, and does not download/upload/edit anything. Just like an IV calc: external program, no interaction with the cart and console.
It is, in a way, a calculator with a calender. I've compared it to astrology before and I'll do it again.
An Astrologer predicts a comet will pass by the Earth, and will be visible in the night sky over, say, the United Kingdom for a few minutes around midnight. The speed, trajectory, and positions of the comet and Earth were all predicted using known mathematics and formulas about these heavenly bodies and a calender and calculator were used to determine when and where this would happen.
Did he hack the comet, the Earth, time itself, or all of the above?

So yes, I know how to use RNG Reporter, my pokemon are RNG Abused, and no that doesn't make me better than anyone. I've never had a chef insult me for not knowing how to bake a cake, and so I'm not going to insult someone who doesn't know how to RNG. Its rough to learn, some people feel it is cheating (and that is their respectable opinion), or just don't want to bother with it: that's fine. Its been a loong time since I've done a Wi-Fi battle, but I'm still well aware its customary (and I believe required?) to let the opponent know that I will be using said RNG'd mons.

But I'm not going to let someone call me a hacker without some pretty solid debate. As that, imo, would be an insult.
 
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