What Is Your Stance On Homosexuality?

[Fused]

This is a difficult question to answer, I'm afraid. For someone who has grown up under the influences of religious teachings, as I infer ironknight has, it's difficult to imagine the sort of mentality you would have in the absence of these teachings. He (and I, for that matter) isn't necessarily opposed to homosexuality because his religion dictates that its wrong. Rather, the religious sentimentality against homosexuality has been around us for so long, that it has become an intrinsic and natural part of our mentality. Inadvertent brainwashing, I suppose you could say. It's a predisposition that influences our opposition, not necessarily the strict teachings of our religious institutions. For that reason, isolating the "religious factor" that you speak of would be difficult to do. ironknight and I excercise tolerance, but not acceptance. Which, based on what I have said, is reasonable and understandable.

You say that tolerance should be accepted. But you say that non-acceptance should be accepted. And you say that we should accept that our demands to be accepted will never be accepted. And you say that we should accept that people like you won't give acceptance because of trend that people like you are ultimately going to carry on.

Tolerance is acceptance without progression. Without progression, there is no learning. Tolerance is a form of ignorance, you could say.

I'm just trying to figure this out. You're basically saying that you can't accept homosexuals because your religious beliefs incline you to, liberally, accept ignorance instead. Your religious beleifs are basically saying to pick them over human beings, which I guess is a cocnept I don't understand.

Buttsex, obviously.

And lesbians?

And must it be reminded (again) that anal sex/buttsex/gay sex/fudgepacking/who-the****-cares sex is not exclusive to homosexual males.

 

[ChedWick]

And lesbians?

Scissoring

 

[Vaporeon4evr]

You say that tolerance should be accepted. But you say that non-acceptance should be accepted. And you say that we should accept that our demands to be accepted will never be accepted. And you say that we should accept that people like you won't give acceptance because of trend that people like you are ultimately going to carry on.

Tolerance is acceptance without progression. Without progression, there is no learning. Tolerance is a form of ignorance, you could say.

I'm just trying to figure this out. You're basically saying that you can't accept homosexuals because your religious beliefs incline you to, liberally, accept ignorance instead. Your religious beleifs are basically saying to pick them over human beings, which I guess is a cocnept I don't understand.

I'm afraid you may be missing my point, out of desire to be antagonistic. You seem to forget that tolerance is indicative of progression. It certainly is a step up from "non-acceptance", or opposition, which I do not advocate.

I tolerate my neighbor's loud music. However, I do not accept it. There is indeed a distinction, and the two are far from antonymic. Tolerance is by no means ignorance. It's a step in the right direction. Absolute acceptance takes time, due to the enormous difficulty of adjusting an inherent mentality. Which would you rather: that I simply tolerate homosexuality, or that I oppose it? Evidently, tolerance is a good thing. Only recently has this country been able to even remotely overcome its bigotry toward homosexuality. Unfortunately, the gay community demands immediate acceptance, and history has shown that is takes time for acceptance to set in. How long did it take from African Americans to achieve complete social equality? Some would argue that they still are victims of prejudice and inequality, but they are nevertheless much better off now than in the dark days of slavery. Such things take time. I am not asking that you "should accept that your demands to be accepted will never be accepted" or that "you should accept that people like me won't give acceptance because of trend that people like me are ultimately going to carry on". I am asking that you understand that mentalities cannot change as quickly as you would like. Realistically, the notion that homosexuality is natural and acceptable just will not become universal overnight. In this regard, tolerance is an important first step. In time, I will come to enjoy and respect my neighbor's decision to play his music loudly. But it will take some getting used to.

And lesbians?

And must it be reminded (again) that anal sex/buttsex/gay sex/fudgepacking/who-the****-cares sex is not exclusive to homosexual males.

And it must be reminded that you need to lighten up and learn to take a joke. Seriously, you are far too young to be this serious.

Besides, lesbians can use strap-ons.

The Latin Vulgate Leviticus 18;22, when translated, reads "A man shall not lie with a man like he would his wife."

Which obviously means that gays can f*ck each other, provided they do not not do so in the manner they would with their wives. So, if a man does his wife lying down, he'd better be standing if he f*cks another man. Done. Debate over.

 

[Fused]

I'm afraid you may be missing my point, out of desire to be antagonistic. You seem to forget that tolerance is indicative of progression. It certainly is a step up from "non-acceptance", or opposition, which I do not advocate.

Oh yes, I'm like a vampire. I live only by being unfriendly.

And it must be reminded that you need to lighten up and learn to take a joke. Seriously, you are far too young to be this serious.

I can take a joke... when it's proper for a joke to be made. But when I'm asking a rather relevant question for the furthering of this debate, perhaps that isn't the best time to make a humorous remark. Also, my age shouldn't be used as a reflection of my maturity, or lack thereof. When it comes down to the fact that I'll be having this discussion with people for my entire life, yeah i'm going to take it somewhat seriously.

Besides, lesbians can use strap-ons.

Whee.

Which obviously means that gays can f*ck each other, provided they do not not do so in the manner they would with their wives. So, if a man does his wife lying down, he'd better be standing if he f*cks another man. Done. Debate over.

:B You're timing is impeccable.

 

[Porygandrew]

The sad part of this debate is when a legally married couple has their marriage nullified and one of the partners sent back to their home country

 

[Vaporeon4evr]

Oh yes, I'm like a vampire. I live only by being unfriendly.

Now that that's been established...

I can take a joke... when it's proper for a joke to be made. But when I'm asking a rather relevant question for the furthering of this debate, perhaps that isn't the best time to make a humorous remark. Also, my age shouldn't be used as a reflection of my maturity, or lack thereof. When it comes down to the fact that I'll be having this discussion with people for my entire life, yeah i'm going to take it somewhat seriously.

Perhaps I was only providing comic relief during the interim, while you waited for said poster to answer your question.

Okay, you're right. Homosexuality isn't funny, guys. Neither is buttsex/scissoring. How about we get back on track, rather than debate the apparent inappropriateness of my sarcastic remarks, or refute my ad hominem asides?

:B You're timing is impeccable.

It's what the Bible says. I am simply interpretting the verse literally Very literally.

 

[Erienne]

The Bible is... well, for anyone religious out there, asterisks. Since when do you see walls being blown apart by the sound of a shofar, or the Earth swallowing someone whole? Or waters being parted by a staff. Or water flowing out of rock. Or, for the biggest of them all, God creating the Earth.

Wake up. No, I'm not an atheist. I'm a practical theist, I believe in the God of science, not the magic God that does everything but couldn't stop the Holocaust.

You cannot justify hatred by the Bible. It just isn't right. You cannot justify ill treatment of any race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, etc. by some book. Leviticus was written by at least two people who contradict each other a bunch of times, and the original text was lost in translation.

You can't cherrypick laws to inforce and laws to ignore. You cannot eat shrimp and lynch homosexuals without being a hypocrite. And, my favourite reasoning, how Jesus nullified all the laws: so, is the homosexuality law null as well?

Don't listen to the Bible. Find the moral teachings, but not the stuff that teaches hatred. Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality.

 

[Vaporeon4evr]

^Was that directed towards me? If so, I'm afraid I have been severely misunderstood.

 

[Erienne]

I couldn't tell. I just aimed it blindly. Were you justifying something?

 

[Vaporeon4evr]

Not really. I was more or less explaining my inherent discomfort with homosexuality as being derived and biased from my religious upbringing, rather than a narrow and parochial adherence to the Bible.

 

[Erienne]

Shame. I had no religious upbringing, and both of my parents as far as I know are agnostic. So I personally have no discomfort with homosexuality, based on the fact that I have high morals but no religious belief whatsoever.

God, or Carl if one prefers, frowns not on those who have sex with others their gender, but those who blindly persecute others. I was reading this post two pages ago by ironknightsomething, and I think this post was provoked by it.

I agree, a Church has every right to deny a homosexual arrangement. But so what. Marriage can be performed in a government sense, not in the fact that you go to some priest and he gives you your heavenly right to marry. As if.

 

[Fused]

I agree, a Church has every right to deny a homosexual arrangement. But so what. Marriage can be performed in a government sense, not in the fact that you go to some priest and he gives you your heavenly right to marry. As if.

I think this is a little funny because some churches, very slowly of course, are beginning to accept, welcome and wed homosexul couples.

Not really. I was more or less explaining my inherent discomfort with homosexuality as being derived and biased from my religious upbringing, rather than a narrow and parochial adherence to the Bible.

I guess I can relate to this because, conversely, despite that I grew up in a religious household, my city seems to be pretty accepting (which 30 years ago it was thee xact opposite). At my high school, several teachers and students are gay and therefore the student body interacts with homosexuals in a positive manner everyday.

I was brought up religiously, but I guess i was just taught to love people and nothing more.

Plus my being gay may or may not have something to do with it.

 

[BynineB]

I find it odd how people continue to discuss religion in a thread about homosexuality.

C'mon guys, it's a book written 2000+ years ago and you're taking a possibly misunderstood quote from it, and using that as evidence to support the fact that homosexuality is wrong or that the Bible is wrong.

 

[otto66]

Well i think being gay is wrong... i mean its half cuz i'm a chistian and half that its just WEIRD! well anyone who does not believe in god in the end will go to hell anyways and don't come saying i'm wrong cuz trust me.. in the end you will be proved wrong. well back to the subject. gays are just weird i mean have you ever heard of itscriscrocker on youtube? he's the most gay person ever! so what i think is that gays are just weird.

 

[otto66]

Well i think being gay is wrong... i mean its half cuz i'm a chistian and half that its just WEIRD! well anyone who does not believe in god in the end will go to hell anyways and don't come saying i'm wrong cuz trust me.. in the end you will be proved wrong. well back to the subject. gays are just weird i mean have you ever heard of itscriscrocker on youtube? he's the most gay person ever! so what i think is that gays are just weird. ;107;

 

[ironknight42]

This is largely my beef with religion. A teacher of mine told me this once (mind you he was a devout Christian) and he said "I love my religion, but there comes a point where it crosses a line: it begins to dictate how you feel rather than how you act." And I thought about that, and it makes sense in this scenario: you act kindly towards people, towards everyone, as yourr eligion (I assume) teaches you to. but then you say you don't like it because of your religion. That's my problem. You don't like it because of your religion. Were your religion not a determining factor, how do you honestly think you would feel aboutt his issue? I'm not trying to be mean, it's jsut a hypothetical question..

Like I said it just seems odd

This is usually what I hear from people, and it's really the same as me saying "I find your heterosexuality odd and disagreeable" yet I hold no degree of contempt towards you or your lifestyle. Why? Probably because I'm surrounded by it everyday and have it shoved in my face and am expected to follow right in line.

Heterosexism. Plain and simple.

If you found heterosexuality odd, it would be understandable from your perspective, really I see nothing wrong with the hypothetical statement from your point of view.
Which is funning because the sexual acts found in homosexual relationships are not exclusive to homosexual relationships.

While this may be true, it is the idea of two men or two women engaging in the acts with one another that is odd.

Being homosexual isn't a sin but the acts typically associated with it are (not to mention acts that are, again, not exclusive to homosexuality.) That's kind of like saying having asthma isn't a sin but using an inhaler is.

I understand, as I have stated people being homosexual is fine by me, it is the act as explained right above this response. The asthma analogy is not 100% or close to 100% true, asthma can be an inherited condition, while homosexuality I would think is not, while some predispositions may certainly be involved in the end it boils down more so to environment and even some personal choice.

Just so I don't continue to have the urge of responding to this certain phrase, explain to me what exactly you mean by "the act of homosexuality."

Anal sex most notably between two men or two women, and more generaly most kinds of a physical relationship with a person of the same sex.

How is homosexuality a choice? How isn't heterosexuality a choice?

Homosexuality is not a choice as there are no credible statistics relating any kind of sexual orientation to personal choices or experiences. There are several studies that support that sexual orientation is an innate, biological characteristic, but sadly there's nothing to speak for choice. Unless you care to elaborate how something as mysterious as human sexual orientation is related to choice (and how a plethora of choices only lead to two or three sexual orientations) I'd be inclined to listen.

Here is where I believe we might wind up arguing alot more...homosexuality is most certainly in part genetic, I would believe that you a possibly predisposed to homosexuality, but I would not attribute homesexuality to genetics 100%. Environment almost certainly effects your developement of sexuality, consequently in the end you do at the minimum have the choice of whether or not to engage in the acts. Mabye you didn't have the choice of whether or not you like someone of the same sex, but you certainly at the minimum can decide if your going to have a physical relationship with the someone of the same sex. Just my opinion but none the less I stand by it. Sorry, if you took any offense.

 

[iGaga]

Well i think being gay is wrong... i mean its half cuz i'm a chistian and half that its just WEIRD! well anyone who does not believe in god in the end will go to hell anyways and don't come saying i'm wrong cuz trust me.. in the end you will be proved wrong. well back to the subject. gays are just weird i mean have you ever heard of itscriscrocker on youtube? he's the most gay person ever! so what i think is that gays are just weird. ;107;

So you blindly follow religion and have no mind of your own? Very nice. Also, who said gay people don't believe in God? Why you believe that is beyond me. Also, you cant judge an entire culture by one person. That makes you..just a rude and hateful person, which is a sin. So, I guess you're going to hell now. : D

It's like judging everyone from the south off the stereotype that they are fat, lazy, cant read, idiots, and hicks. Or, saying all black people are bad because some guy who robbed your house was black. Or, saying all muslims are terrorists because people from a islamic group who bend and warp Islam to their own demented needs. Or, saying all women are weak and stupid because you saw a girl who couldn't figure out/life a computer. Or, saying that all gay people are feminine because of one guy.

:| You sir, should not be allowed to breed.

 

[BynineB]

So you blindly follow religion and have no mind of your own? Very nice. Also, who said gay people don't believe in God? Why you believe that is beyond me. Also, you cant judge an entire culture by one person. That makes you..just a rude and hateful person, which is a sin. So, I guess you're going to hell now. : D

It's like judging everyone from the south off the stereotype that they are fat, lazy, cant read, idiots, and hicks. Or, saying all black people are bad because some guy who robbed your house was black. Or, saying all muslims are terrorists because people from a islamic group who bend and warp Islam to their own demented needs. Or, saying all women are weak and stupid because you saw a girl who couldn't figure out/life a computer. Or, saying that all gay people are feminine because of one guy.

:| You sir, should not be allowed to breed.

Nice job feeding the troll.

 

[Mawile412]

Well i think being gay is wrong... i mean its half cuz i'm a chistian and half that its just WEIRD! well anyone who does not believe in god in the end will go to hell anyways and don't come saying i'm wrong cuz trust me.. in the end you will be proved wrong. well back to the subject. gays are just weird i mean have you ever heard of itscriscrocker on youtube? he's the most gay person ever! so what i think is that gays are just weird. ;107;

Hey hey Chris Crocker is entertaining! Being weird has nothing to do with being gay. Im weird and i'm straight!
Eh i don't believe in hell so it doesnt matter to me. How do you know there's a heaven or hell? Hint: we don't. Dont say "It's in the Bible!" because the people who wrote the bible knew as little as we do now. so in reality, more than half the bible must be lies.
Yeah Homosexuality is different; however, that doesn't mean you can't me nice to gay people and treat them with the same respect you treat straight people. If you say homophobic things, then it shows that you're a hateful person and who's going to your so called "Hell" now?

 

[Fused]

Well i think being gay is wrong... i mean its half cuz i'm a chistian and half that its just WEIRD! well anyone who does not believe in god in the end will go to hell anyways and don't come saying i'm wrong cuz trust me.. in the end you will be proved wrong. well back to the subject. gays are just weird i mean have you ever heard of itscriscrocker on youtube? he's the most gay person ever! so what i think is that gays are just weird.

I would've thought by now you guys would know better. Moving on...

Like I said it just seems odd

What a great reason to be against it. I guess I'm against ketchup on mac and cheese.

While this may be true, it is the idea of two men or two women engaging in the acts with one another that is odd.

I feel like your counters, such as this one, are very vague. What specifically makes them odd?

The asthma analogy is not 100% or close to 100% true, asthma can be an inherited condition

It also can just be a chance occurence. Like homosexuality.

while homosexuality I would think is not, while some predispositions may certainly be involved in the end it boils down more so to environment and even some personal choice.

Care to explain how it boils down more so to environment and personal choice? You had to know this was coming, and this is basically where you just committed suicide. There's been over 100 pages explaining why the environment/choice is bull.

Anal sex most notably between two men or two women, and more generaly most kinds of a physical relationship with a person of the same sex.

And kissing, dry humping, hugging, holding hands, etc.?

Here is where I believe we might wind up arguing alot more...homosexuality is most certainly in part genetic, I would believe that you a possibly predisposed to homosexuality, but I would not attribute homesexuality to genetics 100%.

This is where we agree because, like you, I also do not attribute homosexuality to genetics. In fact, I barely attribute homosexuality to genetics. As with asthma and what not, sure there can be some inheritance, but it seems to me, from the researching I've done, that homosexuality is the result of a biological occurence, one that isn't necessarily the genes you get.

Environment almost certainly effects your developement of sexuality, consequently in the end you do at the minimum have the choice of whether or not to engage in the acts.

If environment is such a big factor, care to explain how straight parents raise gay children and gay parents raise straight children? Also would you care to elaborate the specifics of the relationship between where you are and who you find sexually attractive?

Mabye you didn't have the choice of whether or not you like someone of the same sex, but you certainly at the minimum can decide if your going to have a physical relationship with the someone of the same sex. Just my opinion but none the less I stand by it. Sorry, if you took any offense.

Well, thank you for the apology, because with that last bit, yeah I took a little offense. You're basically telling me I'm wrong, not necessarily because I am a homosexual, but because I decided I wanted to live an open, honest life and find someone that I'm happy with and want to develop an intimate relationship with.