What Specific Filler Episodes Would've Eliminated From The Johto Saga...

[Genome]

I have to agree with that, too much time spent making those boring matches serious or tactical, I think only the one against Golem actually explained anything about the sumo fighting style and its benefits, Ash cheap-KO'd his way to the top and really learned no lessons on better using Snorlax. I'm not sure if the 'referee' was parodying the sumo chant, or if that was honest acting, but I couldn't stand those horrible shrills at the start of every match.

As a Feraligatr enthusiast, I felt this was not how they should have presented Feraligatr at all. First of all, Feraligatr is not the sumo type just because of stumpy legs and a low center of gravity. Second, its great body from sprites/drawing to anime gets mutilated. Feraligatr's forearms are for some reason bloated compared to the upper arm, giving that repulsive Popeye syndrome. It's about a foot shorter than it should be, and it's missing that nice slack jaw look all animated lizardmen get, replaced with that silly gaping bird-face [IMG139]http://i25.*******.com/2d7wvv4.gif[/IMG139]. Finally, Feraligatr can't contort his face to get a constipated sumo look, and staring at you with that demented joy kills all seriousness they were putting on it.

Sorry to take Snorlax's precious filler from him, but this whole affair should have waited until Advanced/Frontier and be done with Hariyama. Greta's Yama did pretty good, but there was about zero sumo elements to that fight.

 

[CyberCubed]

Apparently a good sumo Pokemon battle filler was too much for people where it was right in the middle of eps where Ash just helped trainers with a problem.

Ring Masters was one of Johto's best unique concepts, its a shame that some people don't appreciate GOOD episodes for a change.

 

[tyranitar305]

The whirl island cup enough said..

 

[CyberCubed]

The whirl island cup enough said..

The Whirl Cup itself was good, but I do agree the Whirl Island fillers were pretty dull.

Whirl Cup gets props because its the last time Ash uses Kingler in a battle, and Misty actually got to do something for once.

 

[misty'scorsola]

I thought the whirl cup was great. It was nice to see Misty have a more active role (and overall she still did more than brock ) as well as see more water pokemon, my favourite type.

I hated certain fillers such as "a hot water battle" and that teddiursa one. Most of the gyms were pretty good in my opinion. I didn't care much for the whole Larvitar/Mt. Silver arc though.

 

[Sayho1234]

I hated certain fillers such as "a hot water battle" and that teddiursa one. Most of the gyms were pretty good in my opinion. I didn't care much for the whole Larvitar/Mt. Silver arc though.

I hated the Larvitar arc too! I wish that during the planning stages for the Johto saga that the writers would've instead scrapped the Larvitar arc, devoted the amount of episodes spent for that arc for the resolution to the GS ball plot, changed the plot of the 4th movie to have it not conflict with the GS ball plot, and given Larvitar a single filler episode.

 

[CyberCubed]

Most of the Larvitar episodes were very good. The only bad one was the Slowking ep.

The Larvitar arc was one of Johto's better arcs, which just goes to show you that Pokemon fans crap over the good episodes and then glorify the crap.

 

[Sayho1234]

Most of the Larvitar episodes were very good. The only bad one was the Slowking ep.

The Larvitar arc was one of Johto's better arcs, which just goes to show you that Pokemon fans crap over the good episodes and then glorify the crap.

Hey! Don't lump me into that equation of Pokemon fans. I agree with you that the episodes of the Larvitar arc were quality episodes, I only wish that that quality were devoted to a GS Ball Resolution arc plot over a Larvitar arc.

 

[CyberCubed]

The GS ball plot probably would have been resolved in the middle of the region if they were going to do it, not at the tail-end.

The Johto saga did have a number of obvious problems that fans have discussed time and time again, however there were some good episodes in Johto that people overlook since they only focus on the bad parts of the region.

I honestly think the bigger problem with Johto was the lack of screentime for Ash's Johto team, the lack of character development for the humans, and Gary appearing far too little.

The original trio deserved a better region to go out on, its a shame that some parts of Johto couldn't be rewritten to fix it a little bit.

 

[Genome]

Apparently a good sumo Pokemon battle filler was too much for people where it was right in the middle of eps where Ash just helped trainers with a problem.

Ring Masters was one of Johto's best unique concepts, its a shame that some people don't appreciate GOOD episodes for a change.

No, you don't get to fuss about this. It was far too much like other Johto fillers for me to care. The COTD was blant, the Feraligatr of the day sucked, too many boring sequences of either Pokemon manhandling each other or bouncing off of Snorlax's stomach, even Team Rocket was cut shorter than it usually is. Snorlax and the sumo theme are the only redeemable things about this, and there was virtually no insight on sumo traditions, sumo techniques, and the aims of the sumo way, instead we get the same cutaway battle babble as always. As serious as the filler guy was about his sumo stuff, the instant Team Rocket starts acting up he ditches his precious way of battle and orders Feraligatr to use some eyesore water attack.

Being better than Johto filler #143 does not make it good, being unique is not automatically elevate it either. The Deoxys movie was sure one of the most unique, but easily among the bottom 5 movies. In fact, there wasn't enough bad Johto to make this seem like an oasis in a desert of filler. The episode before this, Sick Daze, is much better and turned out to be one of Brock's finest moments because Brock got taken seriously. If you see it as the soap opera tragedy it tries to play out, it ends up feeling like one of the saddest episodes in the anime.

 

[CyberCubed]

Snorlax and the sumo theme are the only redeemable things about this, and there was virtually no insight on sumo traditions, sumo techniques, and the aims of the sumo way, instead we get the same cutaway battle babble as always.

When was the last time you rewatched that episode? I watched that ep about 2 months ago and enjoyed it for what it was. The only time a Pokemon bounced off of Snorlax was a Machamp in a quicky scene. The Snorlax Vs. Feraligatr match was pretty decent.

Snorlax finally got much needed screentime, the Kings Rock prize was useful since Misty's Poliwhirl evolves with it, and about the only aspect of the ep that was loopy was Ash promising Totodile it'll evolve and it never did.

Being better than Johto filler #143 does not make it good, being unique is not automatically elevate it either.

If that episode existed in any other region I would have had the same opinion on it. Its just noticeable that the writers made an effort to do something original for once in the midst of episodes about Ash treking through filler hell.

 

[HoennMaster]

If that episode was made it Hoenn or Sinnoh then it might have been more enjoyable.

 

[Genome]

Just understand I'm not saying throw Ring Masters into the dungeon when there were so many other Johto fillers having no redeemable qualities. Looking back at some pictures of this, this was the only battling episode between the two gyms surrounding this. Ash such it was devoted entirely to action, which ended up lacking. Snorlax VS Feraligatr turned out "pretty decent", all else just plain sucked. 3 battles were unneeded suspense, quickly put to an end by one pokemon deflecting the other (2 by Snorlax, 1 by Wobbu). The rest (Feraligatr VS Golem then Blastoise included) were meaningless talk as two pokemon were intertwined in the same position, only the important ones actually having a conclusion. It didn't even need a plot, just more than one good battle. That was an average episode, personal taste can easily tip the scale whether you liked it or not. Clearly I didn't for additional Feraligatr reasons.

Snorlax finally got much needed screentime, the Kings Rock prize was useful since Misty's Poliwhirl evolves with it, and about the only aspect of the ep that was loopy was Ash promising Totodile it'll evolve and it never did.

Does the King's Rock even really matter? For all we care it could have fallen from the sky flat on Misty's face at the start of the following episode and end up just as relevant. It didn't affect the plot/Ash's motivation in the least. The first time he held it, he probably found it as bland as today's cereal box prizes.

If that episode existed in any other region I would have had the same opinion on it. Its just noticeable that the writers made an effort to do something original for once in the midst of episodes about Ash treking through filler hell.

Let's look back at an episode that pulled off Ring Master's concept successfully: Primeape and P1 Grand Prix. Pokemon were limited to engaging in boxing sport, a Pokemon forgotten 'till now got its much needed episode. There was a prize, and the CTOD was a local practitioner most assured to win.

Here's what it did that Ring Master's didn't: Ash's selected pokemon actually learned something from all of this, TR had an active role and wasn't purged in their first battle, all minor instant KO battles featured unique moves and interesting match ups with and not just cheapened kills or a shot of two pokemon locked in combat, and filler guy was actually interesting as it turns out his addiction to the sport was killing off family relations. Ring Masters had some funny moments, but this one was just PACKED TO BRIM with humor. That's the difference between good and average, and I'm not even counting Primape's release, or Brock taking part.

There. I think you've sort of understood me so I don't need to post any further about this.

 

[Tom Nook]

The trouble with Johto is that often the episodes which had roots in the games and aren't "fillers" often sucked as much as the COTD syndrome episodes. Case in point, the handling of Jasmine and her gym storyline was absolutely horrendous.

With that in mind, the only fillers that could definately be removed are those from Goldenrod until Olivine, plus the lame steak from New Bark to Violet. I'd say Johto League Champions is the worst handled saga yet without even considering the others, that's how bad it was.

When I researched the Animedex about a week ago I came across an episode called "The Stolen Stones!" that was completly alien to me. Apparently the plot involved Team Rocket stealing fire stones from two COTD's and their Arcanines. Most irrelevant filler ever?

 

[Yamato-san]

No, fillers are not necessary. 2 pokémon can be introduced in one episode, they don't all need their own.

agree with this. Honestly, do we really need an episode devoted to each fucking member of an evolution line when a lot of them essentially act the same as their other forms sans a difference in strength (not that there was a whole lot of battling going on there) and some rather miniscule differences in physiology (oh great, Popokko could use Solar Beam... so could every other damn Grass-type in the show, sans poor shafted Bayleaf)? Though I constantly put it down for being over-rated, I think one thing the first seasons did right was debut a ton of Pokemon as they appeared in the plot (like having Seadra appear in a league match), as opposed to making the plot around said Pokemon... though, it's just as guilty of doing that as later sagas, at least the 80-episode time frame didn't cause it to become too glaring of a problem. What's even more sad about Jouto is that, by the time it was said and done, not all the Pokemon even got a decent showcase (where the hell was Bakuphoon outside of a special? And we never really saw much of Mokoko until the giant Namazun episode in Houen... as if that power plant episode where Bayleaf evolved couldn't have sufficed, or maybe have it replace random Trainer#678's Gourikii or Windie or whatever).

 

[BlueVapor]

Oh, there's quite a few that I'd scrap from the storyline:

Flower Power
For Crying Out Loud
Grin to Win
Type Casting
Fossil Fools
Carrying On
Wobbu-palooza
The Art of Pokemon
Fly Me to the Moon
Plant it Now... Diglett Later
Whichever Way the Wind Blows

There's probably more, but I didn't want to make a really long list, lol.

 

[Juputoru]

I'm this close to digging up a list of episodes I'd keep from Johto, one that I just know posted in a topic almost identical to this one at some point, but that would require effort. So here's a new list of the episodes I'd cut(which is a lot. I have very low patience for fillers that aren't interesting whatsoever). Obviously there'd have to be some new episodes to handle the Johto Pokes whose fillers I cut out, but that would only be an improvement since many of these Pokemon got episodes that were simply embarassing.

Roll On, Pokémon!
Flower Power
The Whistle Stop
For Crying Out Loud
Foul Weather Friends
A Farfetch'd Tale (Yes, I know this was actually based on the games. I don't care. Farfetch'd was KANTO. This is JOHTO. They could have at least introduced a Johto Pokemon somewhere in here)
No Big Woop!
Type Casting
Fossil Fools (ANOTHER fossil Pokemon ep? When Johto didn't introduce any new fossil Pokemon? Why?)
Carrying On! (oh god a pidgey episode too. I know that GSC was terrible about properly showcasing its new pokemon, but the anime didn't have to be like that too!)
Mountain Time
Imitation Confrontation (jesus hell, why did Imite come back? At least shove a new pokemon in there so it's not just "OH LOOK DITTO!" again)
Ariados, Amigos (alternately:Rewrite this so that Janine appears! Bam! This episode magically becomes worthwhile!)
Wings 'N' Things
The Grass Route
The Apple Corp! (funny how doing this list let me see the exact point when Johto fell into filler hell)
Houndoom's Special Delivery (poor houndoom deserved a much, much, MUCH better ep than this. As did Raikou!)
The Light Fantastic
Moving Pictures
Spring Fever (I appreciate the legendary birds finally getting proper episodes, even though they don't really belong in Johto, but Articuno's arc was just a tiny bit dragged out)
The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)
The Art Of Pokémon
Right on, Rhydon! (all Johto filler eps focusing on non-Johto Pokemon must die)
Got Miltank? (we had an entire gym arc focused on a trainer whose team star was Miltank! It doesn't need a filler!)
Fly Me to the Moon
Takin' It on the Chinchou
A Corsola Caper! (what's this, you say? Misty caught a corsola, you say? That's funny, I must have forgotten because Misty never does anything anyway!)
Throwing in the Noctowl
Espeon, Not Included
A Tyrogue Full of Trouble (you may have noticed there was a filler focusing on Ninetails right before this episode. That episode got a pass because it was actually pretty interesting)
Xatu the Future
Whichever Way the Wind Blows
Same Old Song and Dance
Outrageous Fortunes (hey, remember that Misty had a poliwag? That somehow evolved into a Poliwhirl in some episode nobody remembered? And how it evolved into a Politoed and still never did anything? Neither do I! Either do something with misty's pokemon, or don't bother wasting evo eps on them)
I Politoed Ya So!
Lapras of Luxury
A Crowning Achievement


I love how the march of worthless episode comes to a screeching halt around the Blackthorn gym battles. Sure, a few trickled by, but it's really amazing how the zone of terrible fillers is so clearly defined. Thank god the filler quality has improved since Johto...along with the pacing of the fillers, since we have actual storylines to punctuate the fillers. To be honest, I'd replace a lot of these fillers with a proper TR storyline to lead up the the Red Gyarados arc; if nothing else, TR desperately needed some time to be a credible threat in the anime, and they're sure as hell not getting it now.

 

[asperger1981]

All of it.

Johto had the absolute worst fillers due to the most poor writing I've ever seen for characters of the week, along with their no-personality Pokemon.

Lets face it, fellow fans.
The writers had already made an entire arc as a filler (the orange league) and were kinda tired down; at least until the idea of the pokemon contest as we know it today appeared.

An alternative competition method was just what was necessary for creating extra episodes, without looking like most of the time you are just wasting the time.

This is my post, and I'll stick to it.
;267;

 

[Yamato-san]

A Farfetch'd Tale (Yes, I know this was actually based on the games. I don't care. Farfetch'd was KANTO. This is JOHTO. They could have at least introduced a Johto Pokemon somewhere in here)

considering Boober was being showcased alongside it, that was ample opportunity to showcase a new Pokemon without replacing the one involved in the (extremely minor) event from the games. Was there something keeping them from using Magmug, or maybe Magmarashi (both Pokemon never really got an appearance all the way until the end of Jouto) in place of Boober?

Fossil Fools (ANOTHER fossil Pokemon ep? When Johto didn't introduce any new fossil Pokemon? Why?)

not only that, but they completely fucked up an interesting locale from the games (that, and Unknown wouldn't get its proper series debut until extremely late in the series, albeit with one of the few interesting episodes in the whole Jouto saga). To be fair, though, Omnite and Omstar were kinda screwed out of their initial showcases, with so much focus being favored towards Kabuto and Kabutops (the latter of which all the fossil Pokemon debuted alongside).

Carrying On! (oh god a pidgey episode too. I know that GSC was terrible about properly showcasing its new pokemon, but the anime didn't have to be like that too!)

which is sad considering another episode with Poppo occurs later in Jouto (though the latter I found significantly more interesting, bonus points for being a Nyaasu episode... but that seems to have made your list anyway -_-).

Imitation Confrontation (jesus hell, why did Imite come back? At least shove a new pokemon in there so it's not just "OH LOOK DITTO!" again)
Ariados, Amigos (alternately:Rewrite this so that Janine appears! Bam! This episode magically becomes worthwhile!)

seriously. -_- I agree on both accounts.

Houndoom's Special Delivery (poor houndoom deserved a much, much, MUCH better ep than this. As did Raikou!)

Raikou did get a pretty decent special, but it seems that every Pokemon (legendary or otherwise) gets a series appearance at one point or other as well (likely due to Satoshi having a ridiculous encounter rate graded on his Dex), and this really didn't cut it.

Spring Fever (I appreciate the legendary birds finally getting proper episodes, even though they don't really belong in Johto)

their connection with Lugia, maybe? I dunno.

The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)

oh good god, how many times did that Pokemon need to appear? And how many times did it need to continue appearing afterwards? (side note: This episode features a character named Haruka in the Japanese version.... yeah, good thing it's forgettable, or there'd be a lot of confusion)

Right on, Rhydon! (all Johto filler eps focusing on non-Johto Pokemon must die)

well, it is admittedly an interesting prospect that such a Pokemon can learn Surf in the games (even if the plot centered around it is disturbingly hypocritical). They could've used a different Pokemon than Mariru, though (like we didn't see enough of it in the Orange Islands, and its own filler episode earlier in the saga?).

Got Miltank? (we had an entire gym arc focused on a trainer whose team star was Miltank! It doesn't need a filler!)

tit-suckling pr0nz in my Pokemon.... yeah, you heard me XD (if the joke is lost on you, there was a scene cut out from the Japanese version). In all seriousness though, this episode gets some points from me personally due to Nyaasu focus (and a bit of Hinoarashi focus).

A Corsola Caper! (what's this, you say? Misty caught a corsola, you say? That's funny, I must have forgotten because Misty never does anything anyway!)

yeah, and that damn Sunnygo got on my nerves. Thankfully, it didn't abuse Water Gun (like the rest of her Pokemon did), but it still seemed to fit Jouto's ridiculous quota on cute Pokemon. She makes a single capture in the whole region, and what does she get? The unevolving piece of crap that might as well be on par with Satoshi's starter group. Well, at least Nyorozo was decent (until it evolved into the annoying Nyorotono, however -_-).

Outrageous Fortunes (hey, remember that Misty had a poliwag? That somehow evolved into a Poliwhirl in some episode nobody remembered? And how it evolved into a Politoed and still never did anything? Neither do I! Either do something with misty's pokemon, or don't bother wasting evo eps on them)

well, speak of the devil. XD

 

[Slowking[George]]

Tbh I loved all of Johto's fillers, but if I had to choose 3 fillers I wouldn't really mind gone, they would be:

1) Xatu the Future - kinda boring at the beginning
2) Imitation Confrontation - could have lived without it, just with memories from Ditto's original appearence
3) Same Old Song and Dance - uhhh