What would it take to "fix" the 2nd Gen starters?

[IceBurner]

Edit: I'd just like everyone to know I love the 2nd gen starters, Feraligatr in particular, but every competetive site/guide seems to find that they are left lacking with no update for the Adv. Gen, and these arguments tend to make sense. Hence, this topic.

I'd just like to see some ideas on what it would take to make the Metal Gen starter trio more viable in the Advance Gen.

For starters, It doesn't help that they haven't been updated at all since the last gen; no new moves, and abilities copied from other starters. Their single types are said to hurt, though it's very unlikely for this to change.

Well, any ideas?

The only clear-cut one to me is that Feraligatr would easily benefit greatly from a 2nd, physical type granting it STAB. Of course, that just won't happen, so it could use a really nice Ability. But wait, every starter has the same darn Ability. Though I think different Abilities for the Metal Gen starters would go a long way toward making them better, it's only slightly more likely than new typing. Defense isn't really a big problem, Water only has two weaknesses, both of which Feraligatr has counter-type moves. However, it only gets water STAB and its special attack is low, making this offensive Pokemon tame in comparison with most other offensive-types. So, to make Feraligatr a tad better, I think it needs a unique high-powered move with 100% hit. I don't know what type of move would be best (not ground, it has EQ), just so long as the power can make up for lack of STAB somewhere.

Please, discuss.

 

[ZadokRox]

I don't have any problems with the 2nd Gen Pokemon starters. Meguim (sp) is one of my favorite Grass-type Pokemon and I've very happy with it. I also like Typlosion, especially since it can learn Thunder Punch (now that Thunder Punch is available again on Emerald).

I will grant you that the 2nd Gen starters aren't held in as high regard as Charizard, I don't really think they are in too much need of being "fix" (though a couple of new moves would be nice).

 

[Orion-Sama]

In fact, the 2nd Gen Starters are OK as-is. I must admit Typhlosion wasn't much hot before Emerald, but now that it's here, it's as good as it once was.

Those 3 are probably the second best Starters. Meganium is an awesome Tank with a Movepool many Grass Pokémon would kill to have. She also pwns most of her weaknesses with Ancient Power. Her lastability and access to Counter is also another superb point. As far as Tanks go, she's probably the best, just seemingly outranked by Swampert, but certainly better than Blastoise...

Typhlosion puts Charizard to shame. Really. Its Type makes it not as vulnerable, and despite having the same Stats and almost the same Movepool, Typhlosion gets Thunder Punch. Not to mention it can use the Substitute/Focus Punch with moderated succes, and still own with Special Attacks. Just outranked by Blaziken...

Now, I must admit Feraligatr isn't much good. But that'll always be the case with Physical-based Waters. There are so many Water Pokémon that encasing all of them in the exact same role seems to be stupid and kills variety even more. Still, Feraligatr gets powerful stuff like Earthquake, Rock Slide, Hydro Pump and such. Swords Dance is also loads of help. I'll agree that giving it a Physical STAB would be very nice, but Types can't be changed between Generations. Ever (Magnemite/Magneton was a special case...). I think Dragon Dance would be better for Feraligatr, with quite decent Defensives and the so-so Speed. With the Speed and Attack Boost, it'd be quite useful indeed. Still, it is the only 2nd Gen Starter that can't live up much against the others, though Charizard is still worse...

There's no need to improve them, save this Move on Feraligatr. They're good as they are.

 

[intergalactic platypus]

They don't need fixing. I thought the 3rd gen starters were overrated, and the 1st gen ones aren't quite as good because they're marred by charizard. Overall the 2nd gen ones are very good

 

[Double-Edge]

in my oppinion, the 2nd gen starters are the best you can get

1st gen have poor movepools and have more weaknesses

3rd gen are way overrated, though they do have good dual typing

the 2nd gen have decent movepools (level up, tm, egg), there stats are all good, and just look cooler than the other 6

sure, there is room to fix the 2nd gen up, but they are just fine without dual typing/more moves

 

[Ethereal]

If Feraligatr ever got Dragon Dance, it would automatically become overused. It would be a powerhouse...Unless for D/P, the Game Freakers come up with some new way to make Dragon Dancers obsolete. :/

And does anyone but me think that Feraligatr should have been a Rock-type also? I mean, it already was under the impression that it was, what with the screwy stat layout that it had.

 

[~*Myuu the Ryuu*~]

well they do get the elemental hyper beams, they do get a special place in emerald and XD, and they are just fine as they are. I know this because i got whooped by a meganium in the battle factory >_>

 

[Eszett]

Beside the problem of every Grass type save Sceptile, Exeggutor, and Shiftry lacking a decent Grass-type move, I don't think they need much fixing. Sure, Typhlosion could use a few more physical moves, Meganium could have more access to powders and whatnot, and Feraligatr could get support moves like Dragon Dance, but only these scant changes would need to be altered to ascend these Pokemon into the ranks of the OU.

 

[SapphireL]

well, I LOVE Feraligatr XD

and as ETERNAL beat me to it (¬_¬ way to go. >_<) I think Feraligatr SHOULD get Dragon Dance. It needs more speed, so what better way?

and they don't need "fixing". Just...... that they're okay as it is imo.

 

[Dunsparce]

They need updated level-up moves like what Venusaur/Charizard/Blastoise got the GSC.

Aromatheapy, Sleep Powder, Magical Leaf, and Amnesia would be cool on Meg. I still don't know why Ninty never gave it Sleep Powder :/

I would love for Typhlosion to get Crunch (At least it has teeth unlike Sceptile)

Feraligater could have Dragon Dance to make it good (Like what other people have said)

Since I'm SOOOOO biased, I like the 2nd Generation Starters the BEST.

 

[Yami_no_Waru]

Typhlosion--A few more attacks, really just to make sense of it more (Haze, for example, as well as Crunch). Not bad as is, just a crap movepool.

Meganium-- Awesome. Just overshadowed by Sceptile and other tanks.

Feraligatr-- Great if you BP some Speed and Attack to it. Definitely could use some way to boost Speed. Maybe a new move?

They're not as used as the others because the 3rd generation has much more exact and powerful uses, and the 1st are more fondly remembered. Most people say Charizard, Blast, and Venusaur are crap, but I actually do fear them in battle. Charizard can get going with high Spec. Attack and a few good moves, and Venusaur's always a sleeper in waiting. Blastoise with Mirror Coat works wonders, though he definitely has stepped down in usage since the RBY/GSC days (which is horribly depressing for a Blastoise fan such as myself. I NEVER use my Blastoise in competitive battling. He's so... moveless).

 

[Kveran]

I quite like Typhlosion. Behind Houndoom and Arcanine he's my favorite Fire-type, and certainly covers his bases better than those two can with his access to Thunderpunch (much easier than breeding for HP: Grass/Electric.) I don't think he needs much in the "fixing" department.

Meganium, as mentioned, is a fabulous tank. In the presence of weaknesses, she can Substitute, then Leech Seed and use the seeding and Leftovers to regain HP. Behind the Substitute she can somewhat support herself with Ancientpower. The thing that really hurts her is the same thing that hurts most of the Grass Pokemon, and that is lack of a reliable, well-powered STAB move along the lines of Surf and Flamethrower. Razor Leaf? Please.

Feraligatr is definitely the weak link. I would also like to see him with Dragon Dance as an egg move (perhaps using Lapras as a chain?) because Curse does not do him much good at all. Really, though, with so many good water types around in second-gen (see: Starmie, Lapras, Suicune) and the addition of Swampert and Milotic in third-gen, there's not much of a call to use Feraligatr. Some Pokemon just get ripped like that.