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What would you choose if you had a choice?

F

FrozenConstellation

There for grace I go
What would you choose if you had a choice? The truth or an ideal?

If you could, what would you choose? The truth? or an Ideal?
What if you lived in a world of what you choose? what do you think would happen?

For me, I would choose the truth most of the time. Even if were chose to ignore it, it wil stay there and come back to you later. make the right choice!
If I lived in a world like that though, I think there wouldnt be much movement(progress such as technology) I would probably be more monotonous there though...

Edit:Also I will give how I see about ideals :<
You will be able to adchive your dreams, but if everyone was like this...well...think about it D:
 
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A

Adrexus

Do it the bird way!
The truth. Living under an ideal would only be living in an illusion. You might say that scientists are idealists, but I say they are truth seekers. Examining the physical world through empirical evidence and using that evidence to explain the world might be said to be the ultimate form of truth seeking. If a scientist finds something that contradicts his current findings, then he must disregard that worldview and replace it with what is true. Scientists are in no way idealists (Except possibly for some who use science to force an agenda on people) Philosophers also run in that same vein. Most philosophers attempt to look at the world through morals, ethics and sometimes physical phenomena to explain the realities of life.

An idealist would be more along the lines of someone who has a vision of the world that they want to impose on the rest of humanity. Since humans have diverse views of the world, then who's ideal world is right? Hitler and Stalin were certainly idealists (Or some might argue that they sold an ideal worldview to people merely to accrue power). Look where the ideals of nazism and communism ended up. Now you could say that the founding fathers of America were idealists too. However, I believe the founding father's wanted to create a system that prevented (or at least minimized) the ability of rulers (or idealists) from imposing their worldview on the rest of the populace. Ideals change, which is why i'm wary when people say they want to fundamentally change the system.

But for me though, I choose God. I see nothing ideal about man's various experiments and failed utopias apart from God. That is what I see as true.
 
G

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
I liked your post until you said God while also praising truth.
 
I

I-am-the-peel

Justice Forever
Depends on what your life is like. If you care for a lot of people and are generally pretty sociable and selfless, you'd want a world of truth but if you had your specific ideals and were prepared to literally do anything to achieve them, you'd want a world of ideals.

For me, I'd stick with this world though a few tweaks here and there would be great, like with the governments.
 
K

kochoupink

butts lol
What would you chew if a choo-choo chose to choose your choice?
 
Cometstarlight

Cometstarlight

What do I do now?
Adrexus said:
The truth. Living under an ideal would only be living in an illusion. You might say that scientists are idealists, but I say they are truth seekers. Examining the physical world through empirical evidence and using that evidence to explain the world might be said to be the ultimate form of truth seeking. If a scientist finds something that contradicts his current findings, then he must disregard that worldview and replace it with what is true. Scientists are in no way idealists (Except possibly for some who use science to force an agenda on people) Philosophers also run in that same vein. Most philosophers attempt to look at the world through morals, ethics and sometimes physical phenomena to explain the realities of life.

An idealist would be more along the lines of someone who has a vision of the world that they want to impose on the rest of humanity. Since humans have diverse views of the world, then who's ideal world is right? Hitler and Stalin were certainly idealists (Or some might argue that they sold an ideal worldview to people merely to accrue power). Look where the ideals of nazism and communism ended up. Now you could say that the founding fathers of America were idealists too. However, I believe the founding father's wanted to create a system that prevented (or at least minimized) the ability of rulers (or idealists) from imposing their worldview on the rest of the populace. Ideals change, which is why i'm wary when people say they want to fundamentally change the system.

But for me though, I choose God. I see nothing ideal about man's various experiments and failed utopias apart from God. That is what I see as true.
Click to expand...

This right here.

Ideals, although good or bad, are ideas of other people of what they think is right or wrong or best for everyone

I also agree with the last part that Truth=God
Even though some people may disagree with me or think I'm crazy, I don't care.
 
G

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Adrexus said:
An idealist would be more along the lines of someone who has a vision of the world that they want to impose on the rest of humanity. Since humans have diverse views of the world, then who's ideal world is right? Hitler and Stalin were certainly idealists (Or some might argue that they sold an ideal worldview to people merely to accrue power).
Click to expand...

Adrexus said:
Ideals, although good or bad, are ideas of other people of what they think is right or wrong or best for everyone
Click to expand...

Cometstarlight said:
I also agree with the last part that Truth=God
Even though some people may disagree with me or think I'm crazy, I don't care.
Click to expand...

How can you guys not see that there isn't any difference here yet? You're an idealist with this mindset.
 
Auraninja

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
What is the ideal truth? What is the truth in ideals? They're two sides of the same coin.

However, I will go with ideals. Whether one supposed truth is more right than another, I believe that one has to work with oneself to make things possible. I don't want to work towards truth as much as I want to put my ideals in place and stick with them.

But what is the philosophical truth? There would have to be more to it than just whether one thing or another exists or not.
 
Cometstarlight

Cometstarlight

What do I do now?
GhostAnime said:
How can you guys not see that there isn't any difference here yet? You're an idealist with this mindset.
Click to expand...

The same could be said about you. That you're an idealist with a certian mindset.

The same could be said for everyone, but it's not the truth
 
G

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Psychic Politoed said:
But what is the philosophical truth? There would have to be more to it than just whether one thing or another exists or not.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's all a truth would require.

Something that is true.

The only thing we can define as true are things we can verify and prove. With evidence.

Cometstarlight said:
The same could be said about you. That you're an idealist with a certian mindset.

The same could be said for everyone, but it's not the truth
Click to expand...
First of all, I didn't even say what I was yet.

I'm just telling you that you aren't for "truth" if you use its definition as something you can't physically prove.
 
Auraninja

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Okay, Ghostanime, I'm willing to play a game for my purposes. Let me pretend that I am an atheist, and also, I'm not one of those pagans that believe in forces of nature or what not. Now, though I am an atheist, I believe that historically, there was a Siddhartha. This was a man who lived a life of luxury, but found people who suffered. He came up with at least two things that I believe would contribute to truth.

1. Suffering is inevitable.
2. Suffering comes from desire.

If I desire so much in life, but I can't have it, don't I suffer from not having it.

Now, back to what I do believe in. I'm still not a Buddhist, but I believe these two things are true.

So I ask you to think about that with as much scrutiny as you wish, but I also want to ask you questions.

1. Even at an atheist viewpoint, is everything that is valid verifiable?
2. Can we even fully grasp the truth?

Also, here is another historical figure. Henry David Thoreau was surely a man with ideals, but what was he searching for when he lived in the outdoors?
 
G

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
1. Suffering is inevitable.
2. Suffering comes from desire.

If I desire so much in life, but I can't have it, don't I suffer from not having it.
Click to expand...
Sure. You can prove suffering. Our emotions are as real as solid wood.

1. Even at an atheist viewpoint, is everything that is valid verifiable?
2. Can we even fully grasp the truth?
Click to expand...

To answer your first question, no; however, there is usually a valid reason to believe with a high amount of confidence.

Rarely anything is 100% verifiable, but you can come pretty close to saying "its pretty much true." The only reason you usually don't go that far is because 1) the amount of human knowledge and 2) the chance things could randomly change.

To answer your second question, no, we can't and we never will, but that doesn't mean you can't answer the question in the OP. I would assume it's under the assumption that you could or what your preference would be.
 
Schade

Schade

Metallic Wonder
an Ideal world sounds better than a world of horrifying truth
 
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