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Whatever you do, DON'T USE TOXIC STARMIE! : |

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Ragnarok, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok #BeastMode Staff Member Super Mod

    I swear, if I find out, I'll come after you... : |

    [​IMG]

    Introduction

    So the story behind this team's creation is, while I was tutoring someone, I discovered that some guy suggested that he use Toxic Starmie (seriously, what the hell :|). Not standing for such a horrible suggestion, I told him to stop wasting his time and throw the team away, while I build him a "usable" rain team to use on the ladder. I originally made this team without any intention of using it, but after looking at it for a bit, discovered it is pretty cool, so I made some tweaks to it and been having some fun so far. Moxie Gyarados in rain is pretty beastly, with Choice Specs Tornadus and Rapid Spin Starmie removing hazards and nuking the opposing team to support an easy sweep. Is the team generic rain? Probably, but what matters is that it works, and seeing as this is the first team I have been satisfied with in a while, I don't care whether it is generic or not.

    Team Overview

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

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    In-Depth Look
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    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant [+Atk, -SAtk]
    ` Earthquake
    ` Outrage
    ` Waterfall
    ` ExtremeSpeed
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Dragonite replaces Tornadus, who was my primary rain abuser. While he still has the Stealth Rock weakness, he adds an extra electric resist to my team, while it can come in a sponge special hits. I find this set to be very frustrating to face when throwing Spikes into the equation, and it has worked wonders for me so far. The idea to use Dragonite came to me today, as I needed something which could deal with stuff like Rotom-W a little better (and preferably something that could abuse rain and hazards). While the drop in speed frustrates me a little bit, in the end, the power side has been amplified with Choice Band and Stealth Rock, while ExtremeSpeed checks faster threats that don't resist it, covering some of the speed issues.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helm
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SDef
    Nature: Impish [+SDef -SAtk]
    ` Leech Seed
    ` Stealth Rock
    ` Bulldoze
    ` Power Whip
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Ferrothorn's role on my team is to set up Stealth Rock and help me with special threats such as Lati@s, Rotom-W etc. I have now switched back to Spikes, which further adds to the pressure this team can create. While a spin blocker would be nice, most common rapid spinners and taken about by Starmie + Ferrothorn, so I am not too bothered any more. Ferrothorn also helps me fight Volt-Turn teams, which have been rising in popularity over the past few weeks. Normally, when I see a Volt-Turn team in team preview, I lead with Ferrothorn and try and get up Stealth Rocks as soon as possible so they can't freely spam scouting moves early on. Volt-Turn teams are still difficult to handle, but Ferrothorn helps in some way at least.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid [+Spd, -Atk]
    ` Hydro Pump
    ` Ice Beam
    ` Toxic
    ` Rapid Spin
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Starmie supports this team by removing frustrating entry hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while removing Stealth Rock, which shortens the lifespan of Tornadus and Gyarados. As well as being a decent support Pokémon, Starmie doubles up as a strong rain sweeper, with it's boosted Hydro Pumps. Between Tentacruel and Starmie, I felt Starmie was the superior option on this team due to it's fast, sweeping nature. I chose to use Leftovers over Life Orb because I lack recover, and switching in + Life Orb recoil adds up pretty quickly. Hidden Power Grass allows me to hit Water-types, especially Ground / Water types such as Swampert (lol) and Gastrodon (who is set up on by Gyarados anyway, but it's still nice when he is removed from the picture). Ice Beam allows coverage over Dragon-types not holding a Choice Scarf.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Nature: Modest [+SAtk, -Atk]
    ` Hydro Pump
    ` Encore
    ` Ice Beam
    ` Hidden Power [Grass]
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Politoed is the weather inducer of choice, setting up a favourable weather condition Gyarados with a boosted Waterfall, weakening the power of fire-type moves for Ferrothorn, boosting the accuracy of Thunder and Hurricane to 100% while increasing the strength of Hydro Pump and water-type moves in general. The set of choice is Choice Scarf, which puts Politoed at 394 speed, enough to out-speed the likes of Gengar, non scarfed / polished Terrakions and Alakazam. Focus Blast is reserved for things such as Ferrothorn. Encore is used over Perish Song to mess up those frustrating SubDD Dragonite sets, while Ice Beam is reserved for dragon-types. This, and the Choice Specs sets are what I have had most success with when using Politoed, so I decided to go with what I know, rather than venturing out there to see what other possibilities are out there. If there is another set I would consider over Specs or Scarf, it would probably be the the 3 Attacks set on the analysis, which still retains the offensive nature, but grants me the ability to switch moves.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Nature: Impish [+Def, -SAtk]
    ` Earthquake
    ` Swords Dance
    ` Taunt
    ` Ice Fang
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    A rather odd choice, but I needed something to be able to do something to Terrakion (especially scarf variants), which could wipe out my entire team. Gliscor is essentially the Pokémon that helps me with physically offensive threats. Like Starmie, I had two options with Gliscor, I either use the defensive set, or I go down the Swords Dance route. There are two reasons why I chose Swords Dance. The first being that because of the offensive nature of the team, Swords Dance compliments it well, with the second reason being that I don't like having only one attacking move. Gone back to using Ice Fang so Gengar can't come in for free. I interchange between Taunt and Protect, which both benefit my team in some way (Taunt for Stall + Ferrothorn, Protect for Scarf Rotom scouting).

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spd
    Nature: Adamant [+Atk, -SAtk]
    ` Substitute
    ` Dragon Dance
    ` Bounce
    ` Waterfall
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Gyarados rounds the team off by being the game ender. By avoiding status, Gyarados has more breathing room to set up multiple Dragon Dances, while benefiting from the boost from rain and getting extra leftovers recovery with Bounce. It is pretty essential that my other Pokémon have done their part in weakening my opponent's team and removing Stealth Rock (though I guess I can recover some damage from that with Bounce), as I want the best possible environment for Gyarados to set up Dragon Dance and sweep without much interruption. Moxie is the ability of choice for Gyarados. While Intimidate can make setting up a bit easier, it's harder to stop Gyarados when Moxie is boosting his attack to ridiculous levels with every kill. Bounce allows me to hit fighting types and anything that resists Waterfall, while granting me an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers.

    Export to Text
    Code:
    Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - ExtremeSpeed
    
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Bulldoze
    - Power Whip
    
    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    
    Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Encore
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Protect
    - Ice Fang
    
    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Bounce
    - Waterfall
    Conclusion

    Thanks for taking the time to read this team. While I have mostly used Sand this gen, this team has sparked my interest in Rain again, so I think I will give that a try for awhile. As I said before, this probably as generic as they come with rain teams, but it has worked well for me (and my student). I can't think of much else I can do with the team to make it better, so I might as well post it for some criticism and suggestions.

    PS - Rotom and Terra weak.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2012
  2. dragonuser™

    dragonuser™ the greatest crisis

    hi sena :3


    ohhhh so thts y u were raging about starm so much V.V

    and yea after using this team a couple times in battles, I can vouch for its solidness. Only change I would make(more of a personel preference) is that i used a more defensive gliscor set, more sub stall set. As ferro handles scarf rotom fairly well, and glis usually beats all other forms wit sub + toxic + protect.

    but yea, coolio team
     
  3. Smugleaf-pwns-all

    Smugleaf-pwns-all Here comes the storm

    why would a choice specs user have a utility move (tailwind)? overall an impressive team.
     
  4. Ísjaki

    Ísjaki Flood Of Red

    i almost feel mentioned
    rock gem double dance Terrakion can potentially 6-0 if it gets a SD and RP in, and after gliscor is gone it is basically gg try scizor or something, idk i suck at team rating

    edit: i like DU's sub gliscor idea :3
     
  5. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    I really wanted to see you support Toxic Starmie.................. I'm going to have to make my friend make a Toxic Starmie team. Anyways, the team seems solid. I would suggest trying EBelt>Choice Specs to try to Bluff Specs and it doens't make him useless after a tailwind.
     
  6. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok #BeastMode Staff Member Super Mod

    Um, dude, the point of bluffing would be that I am not losing power aswell. The power loss on Hurricane would make it obvious that I am not using Specs....but atleast you didn't say that Gastrodon beats Terra, or to use Psychic Starmie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  7. zerofield

    zerofield i miss miror

    any other move would be neverused filler, tornadobro has prankster, bluffs n stuffs, yeah.

    anyway, generic nice team post, 3:3 flying, cool.


    lol toxic starmie, if you're that worried about gastrodon just use a grass move :|
     
  8. #TWERKTEAM

    #TWERKTEAM Banned

    If you go against Torterra you need to be wary since it can 2HKO your entire team, just fruit for thought.
     
  9. SilentOmen

    SilentOmen Shadow of Prophecy

    Toxic Starmie? The idea isn't that bad..... If Starmie had a little more bulk....... and wasn't weak to Electric, Grass, Ghost AND Dark (common weaknesses much?)..... and if Starmie was actually a Gastrodon who is better suited to use toxic.

    If you haven't gathered, I'm mocking the idea and agree that Toxic starmie sounds faulty. I do like the team. Offensive Starmie might cause this team a little stress, but I imagine your Starmie with Thunder is often a quick fix to that. I see comments about Magnezone and opting for bulldoze, but I honestly don't see it being that big an issue if Ferro is out. HP Fire (it's usual means to counter steal types) will be weakened in the rain, and most of the damage it will do will likely be healed off by Leech Seed and Leftovers. I guess it's not TERRIBLE to see Ferrothorn have a way to really stick it to Magnezone though (and perhaps HP Fire will do more than I'm figuring, even in rain) It's also nice to see Gyarados putting some fear into people.

    If I haven't clarified, I like the team, and good show.
     
  10. #TWERKTEAM

    #TWERKTEAM Banned

    Magnezone still beats Ferrothorn and relying on a speed tie to beat a pokemon isn't very wise, plus Rotom-W still beats Starmie.
     
  11. SilentOmen

    SilentOmen Shadow of Prophecy

    Then I'll kindly stand corrected. Eh, perhaps I'm jaded and blind sighted to the particular faults this team has from my own frustration with the quality of posts / teams being made lately. It feels like every time I'm looking (this thread aside), I'm looking at teams with no synergy and value or I'm looking at some one posting "advice" without any real reason to why why they are suggesting it "Change Dragon Claw to Outrage" (end of post from start to finish).

    Perhaps I'll keep my two sense to myself this one. Still kinda like the team though.
     
  12. windsong

    windsong WEST SIDE

    Yeah uh tbh volt switch offense kinda wrecks you since Rotom just Tricks Specs or Scarf onto Ferro and then it and Scizor can just pivot around wrecking everything. You can really easily fix this by just using Protect instead of Taunt on Gliscor, since your team doesn't really worry about hazards much with such an offensive spinner Starmie. I'd also suggest Ice Fang > Facade, since Gengar can constantly come in for free against Glis and nab at least one free KO before being forced out (meaning that any team with Gengar + Terrakion brutally wrecks you).

    Finally, Volcarona, especially SubQD and RainVolc all kind of demolish you, setting up freely against Ferrothorn and then just blasting through your entire team. Rain helps there, but RainVolc in particular is hard for you to handle, so that's a pretty major issue. Not really sure of any specific changes in order to fix that without changing the playstyle of the team significantly, but i'd suggest testing out a more defensive Politoed spread.

    OH AND DOC WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT BULKY LO SD TORTERRA IN TRICK ROOM BRUTALLY DESTROYS YOU
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  13. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok #BeastMode Staff Member Super Mod

    Thanks ee, will try those out.

    pfft, who uses torterra?
     
  14. #TWERKTEAM

    #TWERKTEAM Banned

    ...Don't tempt me
     
  15. ThatsJustPeachy

    ThatsJustPeachy Superiority Complex

    Change your Politoad to a Bellydrum toad if you want to be a thug. Or you can go the weak route and take windsong's suggestions.
     
  16. Fawn67

    Fawn67 CS Owner and West SL

    On Ferrothorn instead of G-Ball, you could use Thunder Wave to cripple volt turning or D-nite; or just things giving you trouble.

    On Gyarados you may want to try using Ice Fang/Earthquake > Bounce, because it has 20% 85% accuracy, tends to miss, and only has 8 PP.

    On Politoed I have success with Focus Blast > Encore because it ruins Ferrothorn. Though I normally used a Specs set, with the same moveset.

    On Gliscor does Facade really suffice for you? It never does for me. It just doesn't seem strong enough. I was thinking, have you tried Toxic Stall Gliscor? I think it'd have a nice place on the team for another statuser.
     
  17. Ísjaki

    Ísjaki Flood Of Red

    i suggest toxic on starmie
     
  18. DeviantMaster

    DeviantMaster Deviant_Fallacy

    Great team, but you should put toxic on starmie. it would really help round the team out.

    lmao nah jk. i also love running moxiedos on a rain team so i def love this team
     
  19. ashsinnoh

    ashsinnoh Well-Known Member

    **** all that! Use Toxic Staryu, like all men do! On the serious note, the team is good and rounded. As you yourself and other people mentioned you have problems with VoltTurn and Terrakion. That's where Toxic Staryu helps you. Ok, kidding... While Gliscor stops Scizor and Scarf Terrakion momentarily and you can outplay Rotom with Ferrothorn. I can try to suggest one thing for you but even me myself think that wouldn't help you so drastically. Rotom-C can kind of help with VoltSwitch stopping Rotom and burning or VSwitch on Scizor, seeing what set you can eventually run. May be useless suggestion but eh, i tried to help ^^ Also smogon has some funny people, giving super original suggestions, isn't it? XD
     
  20. Swagga09

    Swagga09 Well-Known Member

    Rotom-W gives this team alot of problems, espcially after ferrothorn goes down.
     
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