What's so special about the Ash/Paul rivalry?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Most competent OP rival is definitely alain

Most competent rival is still and always will be Paul,Alain hasn't shown anything that suggests he's superior to Paul in skill.

There's no other normal level trainer that consistently trained their pokemon equally,rotated out their team,captured powerful pokemon,and planned ahead for battles like Paul did.The only advantage Alain has over Paul is power but Paul has power as well so he's not too far behind and he's way more skilled than Alain is so he's more well-rounded of a trainer.

You take away his Charizard and the rest of his team aren't all that impressive,Paul has 6-9 powerhouses that would give any normal trainer a run for their money,insert a keystone for Paul's Torterra or Electivire and Alain would start hearing footsteps.

the fact ash couldn't beat him with his 2 strongest pokemon (AG and pikachu Haxachu) says a lot.

Charizard???.......

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Only losses before SL? Sure they were onscreen losses, but it is well known that Paul has competed in the Kanto, Johto and Hoenn Leagues as well, and failed to win any of them. For all you know, he could've lost in the early rounds in those Leagues as well.

With all the big talk Paul does, you'd think he'd have actually accomplished something, and hence looks down on Ash, but nope, he hasn't.

Most competent rival is definitely alain, the fact ash couldn't beat him with his 2 strongest pokemon (AG and pikachu) says a lot.

Yeah if you think about this, before coming back to sinnoh if you look at his team the only true powerhouse he had was torterra. Electivire was still an elekid, Magmortar, Drapion and ursaring weren't even caught back then. Honchkrow was only a murkrow, aggron was at best a lairon and he didn't caught his gliscor until later. He got most of his team after coming back to sinnoh, that makes sense why he lost so many leagues, heck even ash lost 3 leagues in a row with powerhouses like charizard, snorlax, sceptlie, swellow, heracross, glalie, bulbasaur and kingler.

Most competent rival is still and always will be Paul,Alain hasn't shown anything that suggests he's superior to Paul in skill.

There's no other normal level trainer that consistently trained their pokemon equally,rotated out their team,captured powerful pokemon,and planned ahead for battles like Paul did.The only advantage Alain has over Paul is power but Paul has power as well so he's not too far behind and he's way more skilled than Alain is so he's more well-rounded of a trainer.

You take away his Charizard and the rest of his team aren't all that impressive,Paul has 6-9 powerhouses that would give any normal trainer a run for their money,insert a keystone for Paul's Torterra or Electivire and Alain would start hearing footsteps.



Charizard???.......

Lol torterra and electivire dont have mega forms so no use thinking about that. If that was the case we can think of hypotetical mega sceptile and mega charizard for ash, since that is more possible. Those two alone can annihialate most of paul's TEDHUM on there own.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Lol torterra and electivire dont have mega forms so no use thinking about that.

Neither you or I know if know if he has a keystone for any of his pokemon but I'm leading more towards him actually having one because of his thirst for power,the guy always makes good use of a pokemon's ability during battle.

Giving him a keystone for Torterra/Electivire/Drapion would push Paul even closer to Alain in power than any other normal trainer ever attempted in XY.

 

[Janovy]

Take away the power of a Mega, and what remains?

If Paul and Alain battled on equal footing, Paul would annihilate him.

 

[Darthlord7]

Take away the power of a Mega, and what remains?

If Paul and Alain battled on equal footing, Paul would annihilate him.

Plus, Megas are vastly overrated anyways. People are treating them like they are some sort of gods here.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Take away the power of a Mega, and what remains?

If Paul and Alain battled on equal footing, Paul would annihilate him.

Yeah, no.

Plus, Megas are vastly overrated anyways. People are treating them like they are some sort of gods here.

Even if Paul got a Mega, he still won't stand up to MCX, let's be real. MCX can't be overrated after what it has accompolished on-screen.

 

[Darthlord7]

Even if Paul got a Mega, he still won't stand up to MCX, let's be real.

Paul might cannot beat MCX in an one-on-one battle but he has a more solid team and can use strategy as well while Alain focuses mainly on raw power.

 

[Akkipeddi]

Sure if Alain and Paul battled on equal footing, Paul would likely win given the larger number of Pokemon at his disposal and the fact that we can gauge how weak or strong they may be. But I'd say that Alain's three strongest Pokémon are equal to Paul's strongest three.
Base Charizard = Torterra
Bisharp = Drapion
Metagross = Electivire

Its beyond these three that Paul has the advantage given that the rest of his Pokémon are definitely stronger than Alain's Tyranitar, Weavile and Unfezant.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Paul might cannot beat MCX in an one-on-one battle but he has a more solid team and can use strategy as well while Alain focuses mainly on raw power.

Actually, Alain also uses strategy. Using Ice Beam on Noivern's wing, using Bisharp's flexible body to dodge High Jump Kick, Thunder Wave/Gullotine combo etc.

Sure if Alain and Paul battled on equal footing, Paul would likely win given the larger number of Pokemon at his disposal and the fact that we can gauge how weak or strong they may be. But I'd say that Alain's three strongest Pokémon are equal to Paul's strongest three.
Base Charizard > Torterra
Bisharp = Drapion
Metagross = Electivire

Its beyond these three that Paul has the advantage given that the rest of his Pokémon are definitely stronger than Alain's Tyranitar, Weavile and Unfezant.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Darthlord7]

Actually, Alain also uses strategy. Using Ice Beam on Noivern's wing, using Bisharp's flexible body to dodge High Jump Kick, Thunder Wave/Gullotine combo etc.

That's why I said "mainly".

He cannot be compared with Ash's unconventional tactics or Paul's strategic mind.

 

[Akkipeddi]

Fixed it for you.

Yeah I was using a conservative estimate for Alain's Base Charizard, but I do think so too that it's still stronger than Torterra.

 

[345ash-greninja]

That's why I said "mainly".

He cannot be compared with Ash's unconventional tactics or Paul's strategic mind.

That's definitely true.

He didn't have an answer when Ash told Pikachu to splash water to neutralize Sandstorm or jump on Metagross's head.

 

[Janovy]

Yeah, no.

Even if Paul got a Mega, he still won't stand up to MCX, let's be real. MCX can't be overrated after what it has accompolished on-screen.

And yet you have no real evidence to prove that since we haven't seen Paul with a Mega, haven't we?

We DID however see Alain's non-Mega Pokemon who aren't anything special. Paul could deal with them with no problems.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

And yet you have no real evidence to prove that since we haven't seen Paul with a Mega, haven't we?

We DID however see Alain's non-Mega Pokemon who aren't anything special. Paul could deal with them with no problems.

Well there is no use since none of his elites can mega evolve to. Besides Alain's MCX is to overpowered and a perfect match for all of paul's pokemon, so he would win. Besides alain do have 5 other members also. Even if they are way weaker than MCX, some of them are very strong like bisarp (who is probably good enough to be in tier 2 of ash's team) and metagross (in tier1 around snorlax level). Alain do have other strong pokemon also.

 

[345ash-greninja]

And yet you have no real evidence to prove that since we haven't seen Paul with a Mega, haven't we?

We DID however see Alain's non-Mega Pokemon who aren't anything special. Paul could deal with them with no problems.

Aren't anything special? Bisharp was quite strong, Metagross was used alongside Charizard in the League to sweep+dealt severe damage to a Pikachu battling at it's peak.

I have a tough time imagining Paul's Torterra/Electivire reaching MCX level with Mega.

 

[Pikachu52]

Honest question, because I'd really like to know what it is that people see in this rivalry. Not trying to be condescending here; I just really want to know why it's so widely praised here compared to Ash/Gary or Ash/Trip.

I don't really get it either.

I suppose because Paul as a character and the nature of the rivalry itself had the same qualities that differentiated the DP series - It's darker and much more violent that much of the Pokémon series. Paul was cruel, rude and cold and he was constantly insulting towards Ash after winning. DP also started using more dramatic battle scenes and Pokémon recieved more visible damage than had been the case in previous series. That made the battles a lot more edgy.

Ash/Gary might be less popular because he one, was obnoxious and arrogant toward Ash as opposed to cruel and rude so it was less intense and two, because he didn't really compete with Ash much. It took two seasons before they actually battled and they only had one major match up during the Johto league. Paul by contrast had a more active role in DP.

Trip I suppose is less popular because the losses felt less legitimate. Trip was a begining trainer so Ash, having four regions of experience shouldn't have been loosing to him. It was also less edgy, because Trip, while similar to Paul in terms of being rude and cold towards Ash, wasn't cruel.

My view - I didn't like the rivary so much because it's ultimate portrayal of Paul glossed and left unresolved his cruelty, and that was inconsistent with the anime's overall message. The audience is left almost with the view of Paul as legitimately a good trainer, when in fact he was cruel and self-serving. In some ways his personality isn't that different from Giovanni, but DP tried to cast him in a different light. He never recieved punishment for his misdeeds, which is odd given Team Rocket are sent blasting off for even the most benign of offences.

As for Paul/Alain... My argument would be that since we've never seen them face off against each other there's no way to tell. There's a tendency amongst a lot of people here to hype and overemphasise Paul's skill but there's no reason to believe he's any differnet to any other powerful rival Ash fought. My rule of thumb is that if they beat Ash, they can probably beat Paul.

 

[Janovy]

Bisharp was quite strong

So strong it lost to Goodra of all Pokemon lmao. Yeah sure.

, Metagross was used alongside Charizard in the League to sweep+dealt severe damage to a Pikachu battling at it's peak.

Nothing Paul's ground types, such as Gastrodon can't handle.

I have a tough time imagining Paul's Torterra/Electivire reaching MCX level with Mega.

Because you never actually saw Paul's Pokemon reach the Mega level. That's why it's hard for you

If Paul did reach the level, he would crush Alain with no problems.

 

[Akkipeddi]

So strong it lost to Goodra of all Pokemon lmao. Yeah sure.

Lol are you now making up your own BS to prove things otherwise? Bisharp demolished Goodra with a Guillotine before falling to a Rain boosted Water Shuriken by Greninja.

And Paul getting a Mega may be one thing, but unless he actually proves himself by beating an actual E4 member and 10 trainers in a row, there's no way Paul's potential Mega will ever match up to MCX.

 

[Dragalge]

So strong it lost to Goodra of all Pokemon lmao. Yeah sure.


Nothing Paul's ground types, such as Gastrodon can't handle.



Because you never actually saw Paul's Pokemon reach the Mega level. That's why it's hard for you

If Paul did reach the level, he would crush Alain with no problems.

But Goodra lost to Bisharp.

 

[BladexFade]

Plus, Megas are vastly overrated anyways. People are treating them like they are some sort of gods here.

Definitely agree, especially using that overrated (outlier) feats from Ash vs Diantha(that came with an intent to observe and gain insights on the behavior of Ash's Greninja), but I do feel like certain Megas(Champion/E4 level and ^) are reasonable. But I don't want to derail this good thread.