What's so special about the Ash/Paul rivalry?

[345ash-greninja]

So strong it lost to Goodra of all Pokemon lmao. Yeah sure.

Hahahaha.

[IMG300]http://imgur.com/uuLZfn9.gif[/IMG300]

Damn, Goodra got bodied.

Nothing Paul's ground types, such as Gastrodon can't handle.

You do realise it did some serious work on a Pikachu battling at its peak, right?

Because you never actually saw Paul's Pokemon reach the Mega level. That's why it's hard for you

If Paul did reach the level, he would crush Alain with no problems.

Hard to imagine. Still got one-shot by Cynthia's Garchomp while MCX, even in ME Act 2, was still able to spare with Steven Mega Metagross. Don't know how much Mega would help.

 

[Janovy]

Hard to imagine. Still got one-shot by Cynthia's Garchomp while MCX, even in ME Act 2, was still able to spare with Steven Mega Metagross. Don't know how much Mega would help.

How can you compare a finished fight VS Cynthia with an unfinished fight vs Steven?

Also, friendly reminder: PAUL DOES NOT HAVE MEGA EVOLUTION.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

In my opinion the reason why this rivalry is better than other rivalry as of today is because the plot of it. None of Ash's rivalries are really plot driven unless you consider Gary's and even that's a stretch. AG had no rival, Trip was just awful like seriously bad and so was Cameron, and finally Alan.... joined the league to battle Ash... Anyway Paul's training method was the exact opposites of Ash and deemed "cruel" by everyone else in the show yet he was still beating Ash. It made the viewers (and actual characters) question "if loving your Pokémon is enough why isn't Ash winning". Ash kept trying to changing Paul views on his treatment of his Pokémon yet evidently Paul's method must of been doing something correct as he kept mopping the floor with Ash. I also enjoyed most of their interactions (when Paul wasn't being a complete butt) they kinda had that "Naruto-Sasuke" dynamic. DP did some unsual stuff with the whole Paul thing, Dawn's depression and Nando doing both a badge and contest quest and it all payed off.

 

[345ash-greninja]

How can you compare a finished fight VS Cynthia with an unfinished fight vs Steven?

It was able to spare and tank hits, which Torterra was one-shot.

Also, friendly reminder: PAUL DOES NOT HAVE MEGA EVOLUTION.

True. But neither did Cynthia, unlike Steven.

 

[Akkipeddi]

How can you compare a finished fight VS Cynthia with an unfinished fight vs Steven?

Also, friendly reminder: PAUL DOES NOT HAVE MEGA EVOLUTION.

Well it was a base Torterra vs a base Garchomp which resulted in the anhilation of Torterra from a Brick Break of all moves, something that's not even that strong a move.

Yes sure MCX vs Mega Metagross wasn't finished, but compare how it happened to Torterra vs Garchomp, you'll see MCX tanked a Meteor Mash and a Metal Claw from Metagross and still looked raring to go before Lysandre's Pyroar interrupted the match.

So based on that, Alain's Charizard is definitely more durable and can dish out attacks a lot more powerful than Torterra since he could go toe to toe with a Champion's mega while Paul's Torterra got destroyed by a Champion's base. So based on this, there's no way a potential Mega Torterra for Paul would come close to Alain's Mega Charizard X.

It made the viewers (and actual characters) question "if loving your Pokémon is enough why isn't Ash winning".

And in the end, Paul's methods made me question "If only catching strong Pokémon and overworking Pokémon is supposed to yield results, why isn't Paul winning?''. Cause even he competed in the Kanto, Johto and Hoenn Leagues and won nothing like Ash.

 

[U.N. Owen]

It wasn't a matter of battling; it was a matter of style. Ultimately, Ash's friendship is magic method came out on top against Paul's tiger parenting style. The message is then shot when cold-hard effective strategy is then brought into the mix.

 

[345ash-greninja]

It wasn't a matter of battling; it was a matter of style. Ultimately, Ash's friendship is magic method came out on top against Paul's tiger parenting style. The message is then shot when cold-hard effective strategy is then brought into the mix.

Obviously. Ash-Paul rivalry was undoubtedly the best best rivalry wrote, and that was primarily because they were exact opposites of each others, their battling styles were also totally different.

 

[BladexFade]

Well it was a base Torterra vs a base Garchomp which resulted in the anhilation of Torterra from a Brick Break of all moves, something that's not even that strong a move.

This is kinda an invalid point. Using in-game knowledge, Ash's Greninja move Cut* isn't exactly a strong move, but in the anime it's shown to be quite a formiddable. I'm sure you heard of the saying, "it's not the weapon that makes the man." And people usually forget Cynthia was likely serious because of Paul's arrogance.

But I agree with everything else. Alain's (base) Charizard should be roughly around Champion level in its prime. But I digress.

 

[345ash-greninja]

This is kinda an invalid argument. Using in-game knowledge, Ash's Greninja move Cut* isn't exactly a strong move, but in the anime it's shown to be quite a formiddable. I'm sure you heard of the saying, "it's not the weapon that makes the man." And people usually forget Cynthia was likely serious because of Paul's arrogance.

Cyntha was battling with casual body language, she hardly looked serious.

 

[BladexFade]

Cyntha was battling with casual body language, she hardly looked serious.

Yes, that is called not letting your emotions get the best of you/keeping your composure. It was noticeable she took the battle seriously after being irritated by Paul's action towards Chimchar's loss, and his cocky arrogance about Torterra's Frenzy Plant etc. which led to Cynthia's Garchomp intentionally landed a Brick Break on Torterra's vulnerable, soft part of the body(i.e. head).

 

[ash&charizardfan]

This is kinda an invalid argument. Using in-game knowledge, Ash's Greninja move Cut* isn't exactly a strong move, but in the anime it's shown to be quite a formiddable. I'm sure you heard of the saying, "it's not the weapon that makes the man." And people usually forget Cynthia was likely serious because of Paul's arrogance.

But I agree with everything else. Alain's (base) Charizard should be roughly around Champion level in its prime. But I disgress.

Dont forget steven was just playing around with MCX but when he got serious he still wasn't able to put down MCX in one hit, which actually he was very impressed with. That was definitely better than anything garchomp vs torterra was, and that to after garchomp couldn't move at all in starting and frenzy plant couldn't even scratch it.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

And in the end, Paul's methods made me question "If only catching strong Pokémon and overworking Pokémon is supposed to yield results, why isn't Paul winning?''. Cause even he competed in the Kanto, Johto and Hoenn Leagues and won nothing like Ash.

I always had a headcanon that it's his LOSTS in those other regions caused him to be the way that he is (that and Reggie losing the BF). Unless it was stated otherwise, I thought/think he got tired of all his losts and just decided to do a different training style in Sinnoh. A more important question is if he's from Veilstone city why did he challenge like 3 other regions before his own?

 

[Akkipeddi]

I always had a headcanon that it's his LOSTS in those other regions caused him to be the way that he is (that and Reggie losing the BF). Unless it was stated otherwise, I thought/think he got tired of all his losts and just decided to do a different training style in Sinnoh. A more important question is if he's from Veilstone city why did he challenge like 3 other regions before his own?

He basically got his starter Pokémon Turtwig from Professor Rowan. Then, he followed his brother Reggie to the Kanto Battle Frontier as he wanted to witness Reggie winning his last Frontier Symbol against Brandon. However, Reggie lost once and decided to call it quits. It was at that point that Paul decided to be the way he was, so no, he didn't become what he did only in Sinnoh. I'm not sure at this point, but I guess being in Kanto already at that time, Paul just decided to travel through Kanto first, then Johto and Hoenn before returning to his homeland Sinnoh.

He was probably the same power hungry brute in the previous regions as well, since he decided to become like that after seeing his brother lose to Brandon.

In the end the true message learnt was that Reggie was too soft as an elder brother. A couple of slaps from him would've straightened Paul right away.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

He basically got his starter Pokémon Turtwig from Professor Rowan. Then, he followed his brother Reggie to the Kanto Battle Frontier as he wanted to witness Reggie winning his last Frontier Symbol against Brandon. However, Reggie lost once and decided to call it quits. It was at that point that Paul decided to be the way he was, so no, he didn't become what he did only in Sinnoh. I'm not sure at this point, but I guess being in Kanto already at that time, Paul just decided to travel through Kanto first, then Johto and Hoenn before returning to his homeland Sinnoh.

He was probably the same power hungry brute in the previous regions as well, since he decided to become like that after seeing his brother lose to Brandon.

In the end the true message learnt was that Reggie was too soft as an elder brother. A couple of slaps from him would've straightened Paul right away.

Agreed with the Reggie part. It almost seemed at times he was condoning Paul's actions. If you're right about Paul being the way he was prior to DP then the writers really shot themselves in foot by making Paul seem like this strong trainer but lost in just as many regions as Ash. Still thought it was kinda weird his native region was the last league he challenged but I guess they did the same thing with Sawyer since he challenged the Kalos league before Hoenn.

 

[Thumbs2]

For all we know, Paul lost to Tobias in Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

For all we know, Paul lost to Tobias in Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn

This oddly may be true. Tobias did virtually appear out of nowhere with literally no backstory or flashbacks to his past.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

He basically got his starter Pokémon Turtwig from Professor Rowan. Then, he followed his brother Reggie to the Kanto Battle Frontier as he wanted to witness Reggie winning his last Frontier Symbol against Brandon. However, Reggie lost once and decided to call it quits. It was at that point that Paul decided to be the way he was, so no, he didn't become what he did only in Sinnoh. I'm not sure at this point, but I guess being in Kanto already at that time, Paul just decided to travel through Kanto first, then Johto and Hoenn before returning to his homeland Sinnoh.

He was probably the same power hungry brute in the previous regions as well, since he decided to become like that after seeing his brother lose to Brandon.

My guess is that he resented his brother after he lost to Brandon then gradually became what he was in DP which was getting better as a battler,trainer,and capturing strong pokemon,scanning it with a pokedex to check their moveset,then deciding either to keep or release them,I personally don't think he was already this fully developed from the very beginning otherwise he would have won a league a long time ago.

For all we know, Paul lost to Tobias in Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn

Or he lost to a bunch of Harrisons/Tysons while using his strongest pokemon(Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra) along with lower level pokemon like Weavile and Murkrow.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

For all we know, Paul lost to Tobias in Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn

Unfortunately, these are all baseless theories. We don't have any proof of these.

 

[Navin]

Dont forget steven was just playing around with MCX but when he got serious he still wasn't able to put down MCX in one hit, which actually he was very impressed with. That was definitely better than anything garchomp vs torterra was, and that to after garchomp couldn't move at all in starting and frenzy plant couldn't even scratch it.

Okay? Nobody is saying Torterra > MCX.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Okay? Nobody is saying Torterra > MCX.

It's more questionable with Charizard in base form because it has no impressive feats shown on screen without the keystone,but if we go by how powerful it is in MCX it should be respectfully stronger than Paul's Torterra/Ash's Charizard in it's base form but not by a huge gap.

Alain's Mega Charizard X > Alain's Charizard (Base Form) => Paul's Torterra = Ash's Charizard