What's so special about the Ash/Paul rivalry?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Gary was motivation to keep up

Paul was motivation to get stronger

There was no motivation in Trip as his story evolved around Unova Champion Alder,they could have built the rivalry around region vs region seeing as Trip didn't think too fondly of people from Kanto but no they didn't.

 

[OfCorsola]

Increased tension through out the series really made it interesting. Also, the whole Chimchar-Paul-Ash complex played a role as a catalyst in increasing that tension between the two characters. But yeah, Maldread pretty much has it covered.

 

[Soniman]

I swear people overexagerate Sawyer's skill increase but w/e

Point is Ash and Paul's rivalry was as close to perfection as you could get on this show

 

[Navin]

No other battle had as epic of an ending as this right here (Ash vs Drake and Ash vs Gary come close though!):

[IMG300]http://i.imgur.com/8eibbEV.png[/IMG300]

 

[Janovy]

I swear people overexagerate Sawyer's skill increase but w/e

Do they really? I get that Sawyer is smart and all, but to go from a total newbie to nearly defeating Ash is...hard to believe.

 

[Soniman]

Do they really? I get that Sawyer is smart and all, but to go from a total newbie to nearly defeating Ash is...hard to believe.

He was established as an incredibly studious, dedicated trainer who strive to learn and improve since day one so going from two sweeps, to giving ash trouble in their third battle to battling to the wire on their final about is really not hard to believe. I'm not saying it's perfectly packed and I agree that Sawyer should come earlier, but people tend to blow that criticism way out if proportion

 

[xJeffx]

Looking back at best wishes, Trip had the potential to be great rival. He always seem to one step ahead of ash. I kind of wish he was shown more and was developed more. Perhaps if him and Cameron had swapped places in the Unova league, We could had finally see a full 6v6 battle between Trip and Ash.

 

[heracrosshunter12]

He was established as an incredibly studious, dedicated trainer who strive to learn and improve since day one so going from two sweeps, to giving ash trouble in their third battle to battling to the wire on their final about is really not hard to believe. I'm not saying it's perfectly packed and I agree that Sawyer should come earlier, but people tend to blow that criticism way out if proportion

i really liked how he was always wanting to learn from his mistakes which gave him great development, but yea they should have either established him at the start or gave him a grovyle when they met

 

[DankOverlord]

He was established as an incredibly studious, dedicated trainer who strive to learn and improve since day one so going from two sweeps, to giving ash trouble in their third battle to battling to the wire on their final about is really not hard to believe. I'm not saying it's perfectly packed and I agree that Sawyer should come earlier, but people tend to blow that criticism way out if proportion

Eh the problem here was pacing and lack of battles.
Sawyer relied too much on offscreen powr-ups and skill increasing.
f he had slowly gained more edge against Ash instead of getting swept in his 2 first battles and then suddenly being able to give Ash a run for his money was kinda lazily written and had little believability beyond his "studying" wasn't exactly

 

[Soniman]

Eh the problem here was pacing and lack of battles.
Sawyer relied too much on offscreen powr-ups and skill increasing.
f he had slowly gained more edge against Ash instead of getting swept in his 2 first battles and then suddenly being able to give Ash a run for his money was kinda lazily written and had little believability beyond his "studying" wasn't exactly

Im sorry this is just an unfair criticism when he's a goddamn rival character and literally every rival ever gets better offscreen because they're not a main character

 

[Janovy]

Im sorry this is just an unfair criticism when he's a goddamn rival character and literally every rival ever gets better offscreen because they're not a main character

Yes, but:

1. How many of them are specifically stated/implied to be rookies?
2. How many of the confirmed rookies reach semifinals on their first try and nearly defeat the guy who vastly exceeds them in terms of sheer experience?

 

[Red and Blue]

Trip was a beginner yet was able to beat Ash a few times in BW. Sawyer's growth really isn't that unbelievable

 

[Janovy]

Trip was a beginner yet was able to beat Ash a few times in BW. Sawyer's growth really isn't that unbelievable

Trip was just poorly written. That was most obvious during the Junior Cup tournament where he battled Ash and his Serperior moved at speed of light.

 

[Lord Trollbias]

Trip was a beginner yet was able to beat Ash a few times in BW. Sawyer's growth really isn't that unbelievable

There was also plenty of bashing towards Trip and BW Ash for doing exactly that though

 

[Soniman]

Yes, but:

1. How many of them are specifically stated/implied to be rookies?
2. How many of the confirmed rookies reach semifinals on their first try and nearly defeat the guy who vastly exceeds them in terms of sheer experience?

I think it's been established not everyone starts out exactly like OS Ash when they start their journeys, it's not hard to believe some are quicker learners

 

[Janovy]

I think it's been established not everyone starts out exactly like OS Ash when they start their journeys, it's not hard to believe some are quicker learners

Quicker learners. Alright then, that's the argument I'm gonna use anytime someone *****es about Iris being "too strong" and being "handed" a powerful Dragonite.

 

[Soniman]

Quicker learners. Alright then, that's the argument I'm gonna use anytime someone *****es about Iris being "too strong" and being "handed" a powerful Dragonite.

I didn't know being a quick learner gave you the ability be handed a pseudo legendary

 

[Navin]

Trip was a beginner yet was able to beat Ash a few times in BW. Sawyer's growth really isn't that unbelievable

Trip also suffered from poorer writing, but since Ash got with a 'reset' button, at least those losses were slightly more justified.

I think it's been established not everyone starts out exactly like OS Ash when they start their journeys, it's not hard to believe some are quicker learners

There's only so much quick learning before it becomes jarring. Sawyer would have more realistic if he had been a trainer who already did Hoenn, lost in the earlier rounds at the league, and came to Kalos. He'd already own Grovyle at this point. Then, he shows up before episode 20 and continually appears every 20-25 episodes and Ash teaches him up a bit, so that when XY&Z hits, Sawyer is able to complete the badge quest faster and finally beats Ash in that 3 v 3.

I didn't know being a quick learner gave you the ability be handed a pseudo legendary

Somehow got Sawyer a fully evolved counter-team.

 

[phanpycross]

Trip was a beginner yet was able to beat Ash a few times in BW. Sawyer's growth really isn't that unbelievable

At least Super Luck and Pikachu's power-loss were explained in-universe. Sawyer was basically just magic.

 

[Janovy]

I didn't know being a quick learner gave you the ability be handed a pseudo legendary

Well in Iris' case, the writers didn't skip on the writing and actually portrayed progress and development which is more than what can be said for Sawyer.

And also, if you wanna get technical about it, Iris was "quick to learn" how to handle a pseudo legendary.

Somehow got Sawyer a fully evolved counter-team.

Pretty much.

There's only so much quick learning before it becomes jarring. Sawyer would have more realistic if he had been a trainer who already did Hoenn, lost in the earlier rounds at the league, and came to Kalos. He'd already own Grovyle at this point. Then, he shows up before episode 20 and continually appears every 20-25 episodes and Ash teaches him up a bit, so that when XY&Z hits, Sawyer is able to complete the badge quest faster and finally beats Ash in that 3 v 3.
.

Sawyer literally goes from being completely stomped by Ash to being able to defeat Ash. It's so jarring and unrealistic and it would have all felt a lot natural had the writers actually showed Sawyer winning a battle or few before reaching that level.

I'm not a fan of how his rapid development is simply explained away as 'he has a book, he writes stuff down, he's smart!'.