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What's so special about the Ash/Paul rivalry?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Halolady, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. Soniman

    Soniman Break the Limit

    In addition to not wanting to give Ash a advantage by using the same team, Paul made FUN OF ASH for doing exactly that during their League match so the reasoning is sound
     
  2. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    Not to mention this is absolutely in-character and grounded from a logical standpoint. Paul is an incredible strategist, so using a team where he exposed his pokemons' movesets, strategies, and even weaknesses would be imprudent of Paul honestly. If I were to be honest, I felt as if his team used against Ash was more diversified and was flat-out better than his Lake Acuity Team, at least when battling Ash.
     
  3. Zold

    Zold Pokémon Breeder

    Personally I prefer Gary, Sawyer and Alain over Paul. Trip and Tierno are pretty bad I'd say. Paul kinda lacks personal progression. Whereas Gary matures, whereas Saywer progresses rapidly and whereas Alain gets to be more independant and grows beyond his fears, Paul really lacks progression. Throughout the entire series he remains the same guy, whereas he only really shows signs of change in the near-final episodes.

    I think people just love the clashing personalities between Ash and Paul, and the Chimchar-drama. Personally I think the Chimchar drama was too much emphasized and over the top, making it feel 'forced'. I preferred the Ashninja-drama as it felt more natural to me. I do like Paul's politeness towards elders and superiors though, it makes him a more believable character. Atop of this, I think out of all rivals Paul gained the most episodes where he appeared in, and was given the most screen-time in the anime. (Perhaps Alain wins that due to the Mega-Specials, but then again idk if he counts as a rival). Due to the extra screentime, we simply got to see more of Paul than of the other rivals.

    Overall though, I've wondered many times why so many people loved Paul. Having watched all anime episodes at least twice, I just can't agree that he's among the best of his rivals. Of course, the best thing to do is watch yourself and judge for yourself, because people have different tastes and like different things. In the end a lot of it comes down to preferences.
     
  4. snorlax512

    snorlax512 Well-Known Member

    Because he really makes you root for the protagonist. The league battle was the single battle where I wanted Ash to win the most, and beating a rival like Paul (bonus points for beating him with his own chimchar) was the most satisfying moment in the Pokemon anime to me (in terms of battles).
     
  5. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    How did Paul lack personal progression?

    We're immediately shown that Paul's attitude and interactions with Ash develops throughout the course of the anime. The rivalry would've honestly crumbled had Paul not adhere to his abhorrent philosophy on power, so obviously, Paul's personality would remain somewhat consistent throughout the anime, but Paul certainly has some of the most powerful relationships with Ash in comparison to the others, especially after Paul learned that Ash defeated the insurmountable opponent that his brother couldn't.
     
  6. Kazuki Mirai

    Kazuki Mirai Well-Known Member

    Huh. Didn't think of it like that. But I guess Ash is showing that there is still a chance with his team. (Except Torterra. Poor Torterra...)

    That said. I kind of want to know the story behind Paul's ownership of Froslass and Gastrodon since they seem to contrast with his preferred type of Pokemon. :p
     
  7. AdvancedGenGenesect

    AdvancedGenGenesect Well-Known Member

    its kinda obvious that ashvs paul is gone for good.
    they were gonna make a cameo where they were going to show paul in a battle after DP but quit it because of the hate for pauls charachter personally theres a difference between the rivalries and the charachter of the rival and Ill rate my opinions on the rivals.

    1.gary and ash though in all honesty I damb liked ash and garys interactions even though there were a few I do think that the battle side of things was a very small one.
    remember personality may matter when it comes to rivalries but this ones decent.
    2.trip ya damn bastuds
    3paul if you disclude a few other rivals.
    this one doesnt really get boring but the interactions dont stand out and plus hes defo not the best rival in my opinion when it comes to character
     
  8. Swordsman4

    Swordsman4 Well-Known Member

    Konohamaru (check the Japanese VA) was nowhere near Ash's skill level. Sawyer would have been the only rival to never win one battle against Ash if it wasn't for the plot hax with Greninja.

    As for Paul, the rivalry was special because it took on the contrasting training methods shown in Gold/Silver making for an intense battle of ideas in each battle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  9. AdvancedGenGenesect

    AdvancedGenGenesect Well-Known Member

    (claps)(claps)(claps)

    well damn ysll are forgetting the fact that we see only a bit more than a quarter of ashs journey in kalos and remember we see 120 episodes so calculate for yourself.
    another good reason would be that him being travelling who knows what advice,training or strategic boost he went rhrough.
    anyways ashvspaul kinda one-sided and you could really find paul in stupid situations though the rivalry doesnt get too boring.
     
  10. Swordsman4

    Swordsman4 Well-Known Member

    Ugh, I can barely read your reply so I have no idea how to reply to this. The bad grammar doesn't help either.

    Konohamaru still only won by plot hax and his strength like Alain's was random.

    Paul had been a trainer prior to Sinnoh like Ash, making his strength more believable. Ash and Paul's rivalry had intensity as well and I remember wanting to see Paul get his rear end handed to him and practically cheering after Staraptor whooped Honchkrow.

    Ash's battles with Sawyer seemed more like a game than anything. I practically expected Ash to encourage Sawyer just to try to land one hit.
     
  11. STICKTOPIA

    STICKTOPIA Well-Known Member

    Because Paul was the first rival of ashs who acted the way he did. I honestly love their rivalry. Ash never had a rival like that before, so it was always interesting to see how they were with each other. They had the same goal and the way they went about it was totally different. He really gave ash quite a challenge. I honestly wish he could appear again.
     
    PokemonBattleFanatic- likes this.
  12. Halolady

    Halolady walking on eggshells

    What? Where's the source for this?
     
  13. MysticKnives

    MysticKnives Well-Known Member

    That was really the biggest thing with Gary. I prefer Gary and his rivalry with Ash, but I felt Paul's rivalry with Ash was a lot more prominent in the story than Gary's was with Ash. The writers really should have had Gary show up more often. Ash and Gary have a total of 3 fights, with literally only one of them being before their match in an official tournament. They don't even fight in the first season to my recollection. Their interactions were nice definitely. Ash vs. Gary II was a classic, and had a foundation, but I really would have felt more for it if Gary had more prominence in the series. It's why I really enjoyed seeing Ash finally defeat Paul more than I did Gary.
     
  14. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    There's no other rivalry that had as much buildup as Ash/Paul,only one I could think of that would come the closest would be the May/Drew rivalry but even then that rivalry didn't match the intensity,drama,storylines,interactions,and rival battles that were displayed with the Ash/Paul rivalry.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ash & Paul rivalry 10/10

    May & Drew rivalry 8.5/10

    Ash & Gary rivalry 7/10

    May & Harley rivalry 6.5/10

    Dawn & Zoey rivalry 4/10

    Dawn & Ursula rivalry 6.5/10

    Ash & Barry rivalry 6.5/10

    Ash & Sawyer rivalry 4/10

    Ash & Trip rivalry 5/10

    Iris & Georgia rivalry 6.5/10

    Cilan & Burgundy rivalry 3/10
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  15. danh19

    danh19 Member

    I found their rivalry to be by far the best written their conflict made sense and the way paul relutently became respectful of ash and changed some of his worst methods
     
  16. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "How did I know that would be your reaction?"

    Then the guy saw Ash getting creamed by Tobias, and he slightly scoffed.

    Seriously. They should have just ended Paul's screen time without adding that one last bit.
     
  17. ZilverLox

    ZilverLox Banned

    I liked how we saw Paul watching Ash Vs Tobias on television and I always wondered if Paul respected Ash even though he lost or if he was ashamed of how Ash performed.
     
  18. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    Knowing him, he probably thought, "how pathetic."
     
  19. TheBlackDuelist

    TheBlackDuelist Well-Known Member

    Paul and Ash's rivalry was by far the greatest rivalry in Pokemon History because they didn't just clash with Pokemon, they clashed in philosophies and were essentially polar opposites. Ash is a kind and loving trainer that believed that any Pokemon could become strong if you showed it enough love and compassion while Paul was a trainer that believed that relying on talent/power was the sole method on how to succeed. The two of them couldn't be any more different if they wanted too, which led to several confrontations between each other that if I'm not mistaken, could have actually resulted in a fist fight because of how much they disliked one another.

    Every rival that Ash has had in the past (and future) all train and treat their Pokemon the same way Ash does, they just have different personalities. With Gary, he was an arrogant and braggish punk who thought he was the "chosen one" and belittled Ash every encounter they met but aside from that, he wasn't mean or strict with his Pokemon and cared for them just the same as Ash did. Paul on the other hand was about as considerate to his Pokemon as Donald Trump is for anyone outside of America. He didn't care whether his Pokemon loved him or not, all he wanted from them was their strength and didn't need friendship or compassion to get the results he coveted. This isn't even mentioning his personality that naturally, many people dislike (as did I for most of the series) but that's what also made him unique since he didn't just suddenly change into a nice person after losing, he was consistent and still is very cold and distant to others, but has noticeably mellowed out.

    The reason the rivalry worked so well was mainly because of Paul's competence in battle despite his morally questionable methods of raising Pokemon. No matter how you felt about him personally, you couldn't deny that Paul's way actually had credibility and he proved that his way of battling was just as effective as Ash's, if not more since he has defeated Ash more times than Ash has beaten him. With such a powerful rival, Ash was forced to mature and think of new ways to innovate his battling style that he had never done so before. The frustration of constantly losing to Paul, especially when Ash attempted to criticize him for how he trained his Pokemon, was a bitter pill to swallow and out of all his rivals, Paul is the only one to make Ash question whether or not he was doing things wrong. Without Paul, Ash never would have broken through his limits as an average trainer and become as good as he was then and so Paul's character should be given credit for that.

    My only regret was that we never got a chance to see how much Paul had changed after losing to Ash and we probably never will.
     
  20. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    IMO, he didn't change much in terms of his personality. I mean, I can't even imagine a nice and friendly Paul.
     

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