What's so special about the Ash/Paul rivalry?

[345ash-greninja]

There's no other rivalry that had as much buildup as Ash/Paul,only one I could think of that would come the closest would be the May/Drew rivalry but even then that rivalry didn't match the intensity,drama,storylines,interactions,and rival battles that were displayed with the Ash/Paul rivalry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ash & Paul rivalry 10/10

May & Drew rivalry 8.5/10

Ash & Gary rivalry 7/10

May & Harley rivalry 6.5/10

Dawn & Zoey rivalry 4/10

Dawn & Ursula rivalry 6.5/10

Ash & Barry rivalry 6.5/10

Ash & Sawyer rivalry 4/10

Ash & Trip rivalry 5/10

Iris & Georgia rivalry 6.5/10

Cilan & Burgundy rivalry 3/10

Ash vs Sawyer rivalry certainly deserves better than that. It was really nice from how Sawyer, who from being a rookie who saw Ash as a role model who went to becoming someone who can challenge him from every aspect

I liked how we saw Paul watching Ash Vs Tobias on television and I always wondered if Paul respected Ash even though he lost or if he was ashamed of how Ash performed.

Paul with his top powerhouses would've taken out one or two of Tobias's legendaries as well, i mean, with the likes of Torterra, Electivire, Drapion and Ursaring.

 

[PokemonKnight]

Because "training methods" and people loved seeing a character who acted like how they played in the games even though his actions contrasted directly with the standards of Pokemon.

 

[Xenon Blue]

I don't think Paul would change his methods that much. It wasn't flawed to begin with, as optimally training your Pokemon and only using the ones that you are satisfied with is a valid style. The problem is he would sometimes take it too far with Pokemon like Chimchar and force it to become strong instead of giving up early like he does with most other Pokemon. If anything is going to change about him, it's the fact that he would start respecting methods that he did not acknowledge before, but still would write it off as less efficient as his current method of training.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Because "training methods" and people loved seeing a character who acted like how they played in the games even though his actions contrasted directly with the standards of Pokemon.

Realistically that's what matters the most instead of this lovey dovey crap we've been exposed to for years.

I don't think Paul would change his methods that much. It wasn't flawed to begin with, as optimally training your Pokemon and only using the ones that you are satisfied with is a valid style. The problem is he would sometimes take it too far with Pokemon like Chimchar and force it to become strong instead of giving up early like he does with most other Pokemon. If anything is going to change about him, it's the fact that he would start respecting methods that he did not acknowledge before, but still would write it off as less efficient as his current method of training.

Paul would probably just ease up on treating any other pokemon he captures the way he treated pokemon like Starly,Stantler,Azumaril,and Chimchar,but that shouldn't stop him from still wanting to capture powerful pokemon and train them up to a very high level like he did with Ursaring who was easily taken care of by Chimchar in Bewilder Forest,look at how far it's come since then.

So if Paul came back I would expect him to have the same personality he had post SL but less rude and just more willing to give out constructive criticism to any trainers he encounters or battles.He could just stop releasing pokemon,checking their movesets with pokedex,and over training pokemon the way he did with Chimchar.

To be perfectly honest if you combine his willingness to train all his pokemon,battle smarts,experience,ability to capture powerful pokemon,and then add in showing more appreciation for his pokemon then you undisputedly have the most well-rounded trainer in the anime outside of Champions and Elite Four.

 

[PokemonKnight]

Realistically that's what matters the most instead of this lovey dovey crap we've been exposed to for years.



Paul would probably just ease up on treating any other pokemon he captures the way he treated pokemon like Starly,Stantler,Azumaril,and Chimchar,but that shouldn't stop him from still wanting to capture powerful pokemon and train them up to a very high level like he did with Ursaring who was easily taken care of by Chimchar in Bewilder Forest,look at how far it's come since then.

So if Paul came back I would expect him to have the same personality he had post SL but less rude and just more willing to give out constructive criticism to any trainers he encounters or battles.He could just stop releasing pokemon,checking their movesets with pokedex,and over training pokemon the way he did with Chimchar.

To be perfectly honest if you combine his willingness to train all his pokemon,battle smarts,experience,ability to capture powerful pokemon,and then add in showing more appreciation for his pokemon then you undisputedly have the most well-rounded trainer in the anime outside of Champions and Elite Four.

That "lovey dovey" crap has been the hallmark of the series since Red/Blue. Professor Oak reinforces it after you beat Blue for the title. So does Karen in GSC. It was the same way in the anime from day one. Pokemon are not tools, they are friends. That is the mantra. And I am sorry, you have to be a pretty angry person to think abusive training and cold, unfeeling actions matter more than affection or basic human decency.

You speak of realism in a series with 10 year old heroes and fire breathing dragons, but whatever, I will give it a shot based on realism. The anime is supposed to be a "real life" version of the games. And it is, so to speak. Throughout the entire series up to DP (and after), trainers that mistreated Pokemon were dealt with harshly or rightly scolded for their actions. Brock was about to haul up and hit Damian for letting Charmander "tough out" outside. it was the same thought process that Paul was doing with Chimchar. This time, Brock just sits there, has one talk and otherwise stays in the background. So his character was altered.

Realistically, Paul would have lost his trainer license for taking Chimchar from the hospital and having it battle despite needing rest. But no, the protagonists and Nurse Joy completely let it slide. After all, Cynthia basically did the same after she witnessed Paul's interactions with his Pokemon.

And realistically, someone wouldn't turn into a psychopath, after watching their brother lose one battle to one of the greatest trainers in the world.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

That "lovey dovey" crap has been the hallmark of the series since Red/Blue. Professor Oak reinforces it after you beat Blue for the title. So does Karen in GSC. It was the same way in the anime from day one. Pokemon are not tools, they are friends. That is the mantra. And I am sorry, you have to be a pretty angry person to think abusive training and cold, unfeeling actions matter more than affection or basic human decency.

You speak of realism in a series with 10 year old heroes and fire breathing dragons, but whatever, I will give it a shot based on realism. The anime is supposed to be a "real life" version of the games. And it is, so to speak. Throughout the entire series up to DP (and after), trainers that mistreated Pokemon were dealt with harshly or rightly scolded for their actions. Brock was about to haul up and hit Damian for letting Charmander "tough out" outside. it was the same thought process that Paul was doing with Chimchar. This time, Brock just sits there, has one talk and otherwise stays in the background. So his character was altered.

Realistically, Paul would have lost his trainer license for taking Chimchar from the hospital and having it battle despite needing rest. But no, the protagonists and Nurse Joy completely let it slide. After all, Cynthia basically did the same after she witnessed Paul's interactions with his Pokemon.

And realistically, someone wouldn't turn into a psychopath, after watching their brother lose one battle to one of the greatest trainers in the world.

Cool story bro

 

[PokemonKnight]

Cool story bro

I hope you didn't hurt yourself coming up with your rude and condescending response.

I will just borrow your favorite character's cliche response in response to your response: "Pathetic."

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I will just borrow your favorite character's cliche response in response to your response: "Pathetic."

Okay man you go ahead and do that.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

rude

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

condescending

More like sarcastic and just not caring at all,but if you want condescending there's many guys on here that do plenty of that on this site but I'm not going to try and start a flame war.

 

[LilyTwo]

There's nothing special about Ash and Paul's rivalry. Unless you count an abusive jerk getting away with mistreating Pokemon because "lol different training methods".

 

[PokemonKnight]

Okay man you go ahead and do that.

OK.

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?



More like sarcastic and just not caring at all,but if you want condescending there's many guys on here that do plenty of that on this site but I'm not going to try and start a flame war.

It is rude to join a discussion and then ignore someone's points with a blatant, "cool story, bro."

You claim not to care, yet you responded. Which is it?

This is not a flame war but a discussion.

There's nothing special about Ash and Paul's rivalry. Unless you count an abusive jerk getting away with mistreating Pokemon because "lol different training methods".

Glad you are back, LilyTwo. You and Agent Pierre were brave warriors in your justified dislike of Paul. Those were great points made back in the day.

I completely agree with your line. The fact that the heroes (Cynthia, Brock, Reggie etc) left Paul get away with his abuse was mind-numbing. Even more horrifying is how people like Barry idolized him. It completely went against the standards of Pokemon. I bet Damian and Tepig's trainer are wondering where that "understanding" was when our heroes dealt with them.

 

[Akkipeddi]

I think the main reason this rivalry is hailed by so many people is because it brought the best out of Ash. It was a huge contrast to the battle style that Ash always follows about love and friendship. And Paul seemed to get Ash mentally affected as well. Overall, I think the rivalry was quite good with all the buildup and the contrasting styles and values Ash and Paul had, but I agree with some people here that Paul got off too easily. I hated that, and it makes you wonder as to why Damian in OS and Tepig's trainer are criticised for being abusive yet Paul got away scott free. Brandon and Cynthia wrecking him were extremely satisfying to watch.

 

[SinnohEevee]

What's special about it is the contrast. One treats his Pokémon as his friends, while the other has no problem abusing them.

Can you imagine N's reaction if he saw Paul's methods?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

What's special about it is the contrast. One treats his Pokémon as his friends, while the other has no problem abusing them.

Can you imagine N's reaction if he saw Paul's methods?

Too bad N never has; that would have been great to see.

 

[alexterri]

Its probably because Paul was one of the few rivals who was somewhat equal to Ash power wise. Also, because of the contrast in personalities, like SinnohEevee said.

 

[Xenon Blue]

That "lovey dovey" crap has been the hallmark of the series since Red/Blue. Professor Oak reinforces it after you beat Blue for the title. So does Karen in GSC. It was the same way in the anime from day one. Pokemon are not tools, they are friends. That is the mantra. And I am sorry, you have to be a pretty angry person to think abusive training and cold, unfeeling actions matter more than affection or basic human decency.

Of course taking care of your Pokemon is important, but it's not like Paul wasn't doing that. He clearly prioritizes a Pokemon's condition and health over anything else in most cases. It was only one instance with Chimchar that his judgement got clouded by being over-ambitious, and that is a welcome theme to this anime. Rarely do characters in this anime get karma when they slip up, and rarely do they actually try to fix their ways once they realize it wasn't correct. Paul's ways of selective training and not relying on blind faith isn't "wrong", he just didn't always approach it the correct way.

You speak of realism in a series with 10 year old heroes and fire breathing dragons, but whatever, I will give it a shot based on realism. The anime is supposed to be a "real life" version of the games. And it is, so to speak. Throughout the entire series up to DP (and after), trainers that mistreated Pokemon were dealt with harshly or rightly scolded for their actions. Brock was about to haul up and hit Damian for letting Charmander "tough out" outside. it was the same thought process that Paul was doing with Chimchar. This time, Brock just sits there, has one talk and otherwise stays in the background. So his character was altered.

Except the difference is Paul is doing the supposed "harsh" training for the sake of his Pokemon, and if the Pokemon didn't want to train his way then he will set them free and not bother with it. In the case of Chimchar he was simply becoming too hasty and impatient, as he thought by now Chimchar would be able to activate blaze. In all the other cases, his training has been very orderly and efficient without any sign of brutal harshness.

Realistically, Paul would have lost his trainer license for taking Chimchar from the hospital and having it battle despite needing rest. But no, the protagonists and Nurse Joy completely let it slide. After all, Cynthia basically did the same after she witnessed Paul's interactions with his Pokemon.

Where in the rules does it say you must bring your Pokemon to the Pokemon Center every time it gets injured? At the end of the day it's the trainer's decision on what to do with it, whether it is correct or not. Paul was already ready to give up on Chimchar at that point so he decided to give it one final test to prove it's worth.

And realistically, someone wouldn't turn into a psychopath, after watching their brother lose one battle to one of the greatest trainers in the world.

Psychopath? So maximizing efficiency on all your Pokemon without beating around the bush is psychopathic? In that case I must be a psychopath, since I will do anything to improve on what I want to improve and not stray away from the course of plan and suddenly believe not taking it seriously will lead me to success.

There's nothing special about Ash and Paul's rivalry. Unless you count an abusive jerk getting away with mistreating Pokemon because "lol different training methods".

Obviously there is way more to the rivalry than what you stated. The Chimchar scene gets misinterpreted so many times and is somehow the only scene in which anyone remembers about Paul.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I don't think there is anything special about it, especially when the writers decided to pull a 180 partway through the series and start treating Paul like he'd been in the right all along despite clearly being set up at the beginning for a classic "error of his ways" story and he never really got any real comeuppance except for his loss against Brandon. Even his loss to Ash barely had any effect on him.

Also, it's amazing how people make excuses for how he treated Chimchar. A doctor literally ordered him to not have Chimchar battle and he just blatantly ignored her. He then abandoned it after it "failed" him, despite that being his fault. You cannot justify his actions toward Chimchar in any way. Any justification is just a thinly-veiled excuse.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Because Paul was an opposite to Ash. Not just on training methods but also on character. Unlike Ash or pretty much any other main character/rival, Paul wasn't overly polite.

Paul also using harsher training methods and somewhat more in tune with what we see in the competitive scene created a bigger contrast to Ash and his character and pushed him even more to strive and become better.

For being so unique on personality, he end up standing out and showing the anime's universe is more colorful/diverse

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Ash-Paul Rivalry Summary

--------------------------------------------------
Personality

(Ash): Cheerful,Kind,Compassionate,Mature

(Paul): Callous,Cold,Serious,Mature
--------------------------------------------------

Battling

(Ash): Using clever unorthodoxed strategies

(Paul): Using effective,risk taking,and smart strategies,adapting to your opponent.

-------------------------------------------------
Training

(Ash: Putting pokemon through normal training.

(Paul): Putting pokemon through intense rigorous training.

--------------------------------------------------
Experience

(Ash): Been through the Kanto-Johto-Hoenn-Sinnoh Gyms and Leagues.

(Paul): Been through the Hoenn-Johto-Kanto-Sinnoh Gyms and Leagues.

-------------------------------------------------
Capturing

(Ash): Befriend a pokemon,battle them then capture them with a pokeball.

(Paul): Look for the strongest species of a pokemon you can find in the wild,battle them,capture them with a pokeball and then scan with pokedex to see what moves it knows,then either keep or release the pokemon.

-------------------------------------------------
Team

(Ash): Using the same lineup of pokemon throughout the entire region.

(Paul): Constantly rotating lineup of pokemon throughout the entire region.

------------------------------------------------
Bond

(Ash): Show pokemon love,care,and affection

(Paul): Give pokemon some R&R

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Unless you count an abusive jerk getting away with mistreating Pokemon because "lol different training methods".

The only argument you have with that is the Chimchar storyline, outside of that there's no other cases,unless we assume he did the same thing to other pokemon prior to him coming back to Sinnoh.

Pokemon like Electivire, Torterra,and Ursaring all seem fine with Paul's system and don't act depressed or cry about it,the proof is shown when his pokemon that were with Reggie felt disappointed that Paul lost to Ash at the Sinnoh League but got happy and excited when Reggie said they could have a battle when he comes back home.