What's with this treatment of Ash?

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Hello, been watching this series since Kanto on kids WB days. I liked how the series started out with both having goals and different training methods but some where along the way its like this series Journey's lost its way. I know I've seen arguments from one side saying Ash has been here forever and others should get a good amount of focous. While that's fine we have there's too much of a good thing. For example I liked how it was done between Ash and May in AG series, they both had good character arcs and character development equally. I feel like Ash is being forgotten now. Any one else see this?

 

[Red and Blue]

Yeah it feels like Ash storyline is secondary to Go's. I think part of that has to do with him finally winning a League, which caused him to be more "at ease" as a interview put it.

That being said I think he'll become more prominent as he gets through the Hyper Class and eventually the Top 8

 

[Dynamic_Fusion]

I feel that "It's because they don't really know what to do with him anymore and you can't blame them because he has been there for 20 years" is a poor excuse. There is a lot of what can be done with Satoshi. He is an ever-lasting character because 1. He doesn't age, 2. He has a vague goal, 3. His character is the definition of an inspiration to kids and 4. His "Number 1" Partner is heavily marketable.

Yeah it feels like Ash storyline is secondary to Go's. I think part of that has to do with him finally winning a League, which caused him to be more "at ease" as a interview put it.

I wouldn't take Tomiyasu's words of him being "at more ease" seriously. That was just his own personal headcanon.

 

[Evstike]

It's funny how doing what they did with Ash for the last 20 years would be better than whatever treatment he's getting now.

 

[Red and Blue]

I feel that "It's because they don't really know what to do with him anymore and you can't blame them because he has been there for 20 years" is a poor excuse. There is a lot of what can be done with Satoshi. He is an ever-lasting character because 1. He doesn't age, 2. He has a vague goal, 3. His character is the definition of an inspiration to kids and 4. His "Number 1" Partner is heavily marketable.

I wouldn't take Tomiyasu's words of him being "at more ease" seriously. That was just his own personal headcanon.

Even if it is just a head cannon it feels like he is more at ease compared to previous seasons. At least to me.

 

[JustAStatistic]

I don't mind Ash getting less focus and Goh getting more, I just wish it was better executed. I liked Goh's goal and character a lot at the start of JN, but his character development has been kind of messy and the speed at which he's progressing towards his goal is breaking the final bit of consistency the anime had managed to keep since Johto. Ash's character in Journeys is sloppy (another depression arc? Really?), his team has almost no chemistry and despite being full of fan favorites, only get the bare minimum of screentime, and his goal is being mishandled.

 

[SatoSereFan224888]

Honestly I think Ash needs to go off screen for a couple episodes so the anime can focus more on Gou. Ash will be trying to move up in the rankings while off screen. He goes to previous regions to battle stronger trainers.

 

[Morax]

There is a lot of what can be done with Satoshi

Like what?

 

[UnovaMaster]

I honestly wish we were just seeing Goh take on the PWC while also trying to catch Mew (that or give the Mew goal to Chloe)

It's time for Ash, Pikachu, Jessie, James, and Meowth to float into the abyss

 

[SatoSereFan224888]

I honestly wish we were just seeing Goh take on the PWC while also trying to catch Mew (that or give the Mew goal to Chloe)

It's time for Ash, Pikachu, Jessie, James, and Meowth to float into the abyss

I have to agree with you. Ash should have been replaced after XYZ. Why the heck did the writers make him go to school in Alola? That was stupid. It was like the writers flushed down his character development from Sinnoh and Kalos.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I have to agree with you. Ash should have been replaced after XYZ. Why the heck did the writers make him go to school in Alola? That was stupid. It was like the writers flushed down his character development from Sinnoh and Kalos.

This isn't BW where Ash was actually resetted after beating a Darkrai and a Latios.

 

[Almighty Zard]

I have to agree with you. Ash should have been replaced after XYZ. Why the heck did the writers make him go to school in Alola? That was stupid. It was like the writers flushed down his character development from Sinnoh and Kalos.

I think DP would've been a better time, he had a great team going in, used his reserves, solid pacing and opponents, and had one of the most intense fights ever against Paul, and the only reason he lost was because of a poorly established character who was pretty much made to impede him from winning.

I know Ash made it further in Kalos, but the league was rushed as heck, we barely had any decent battles, while all of his kalos pokemon were fully evolved the two dragons couldn't pull their weight, and despite all the hype Ash-Greninja failed to defeat Alain's Mega Zard X, and the rest of Alain's team wasn't all that impressive, I mean he had two pseudo legendaries and Pikachu took down both of them by itself.

Regardless they've had multiple chances to pull the trigger, but haven't taken it, why is the biggest question that i'm not sure we'll ever get an answer too, granted if Ash actually succeeds in taking down Leon, they might not have a choice but to let him go because where do you go from being the strongest trainer in the world.

Heck even if he falls short of beating Leon, the fact that he's already beaten 1 champion, and more could be in his path as well as elite 4 members, I don't honestly think they can simply reset him next gen either...at least not without resorting to taking measures that would be even worse than what BW did...

This isn't BW where Ash was actually resetted after beating a Darkrai and a Latios.

Case in point, Zekrom did "things" to Pikachu causing it to get nerfed as well, you can clearly tell in the early unova episodes Pikachu was struggling too.

honestly the only thing I could see Ash doing beyond his current goal(if he beats Leon he could defend the title, if he fails he could redo the PWC, cause I honestly feel he's past hunting for trinkets at this point) would be to mentor a new trainer like Brock did for him, but that would only be unique one time, after that we would need either a time skip or reboot to keep things fresh.

 

[Morax]

I think DP would've been a better time, he had a great team going in, used his reserves, solid pacing and opponents, and had one of the most intense fights ever against Paul, and the only reason he lost was because of a poorly established character who was pretty much made to impede him from winning.

I know Ash made it further in Kalos, but the league was rushed as heck, we barely had any decent battles, while all of his kalos pokemon were fully evolved the two dragons couldn't pull their weight, and despite all the hype Ash-Greninja failed to defeat Alain's Mega Zard X, and the rest of Alain's team wasn't all that impressive, I mean he had two pseudo legendaries and Pikachu took down both of them by itself.

Regardless they've had multiple chances to pull the trigger, but haven't taken it, why is the biggest question that i'm not sure we'll ever get an answer too, granted if Ash actually succeeds in taking down Leon, they might not have a choice but to let him go because where do you go from being the strongest trainer in the world.

Heck even if he falls short of beating Leon, the fact that he's already beaten 1 champion, and more could be in his path as well as elite 4 members, I don't honestly think they can simply reset him next gen either...at least not without resorting to taking measures that would be even worse than what BW did...



Case in point, Zekrom did "things" to Pikachu causing it to get nerfed as well, you can clearly tell in the early unova episodes Pikachu was struggling too.

honestly the only thing I could see Ash doing beyond his current goal(if he beats Leon he could defend the title, if he fails he could redo the PWC, cause I honestly feel he's past hunting for trinkets at this point) would be to mentor a new trainer like Brock did for him, but that would only be unique one time, after that we would need either a time skip or reboot to keep things fresh.

The only way forward after journeys' is either a time skip or a reboot. Absolutely agreed.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Case in point, Zekrom did "things" to Pikachu causing it to get nerfed as well, you can clearly tell in the early unova episodes Pikachu was struggling too.

honestly the only thing I could see Ash doing beyond his current goal(if he beats Leon he could defend the title, if he fails he could redo the PWC, cause I honestly feel he's past hunting for trinkets at this point) would be to mentor a new trainer like Brock did for him, but that would only be unique one time, after that we would need either a time skip or reboot to keep things fresh.

I'm not only talking about Pikachu, but Ash's overall skills, we saw him struggling and losing badly against Trip in their second battle, and Trip was basically an amateur trainer.

 

[Almighty Zard]

The only way forward after journeys' is either a time skip or a reboot. Absolutely agreed.

i'm not opposed to the idea of Ash full on mentoring a trainer for one gen though, it'd be a nice round out since Brock did it for him.

culminating in the trainer challenging Ash at the end, but beating him, probably not.

I'm not only talking about Pikachu, but Ash's overall skills, we saw him struggling and losing badly against Trip in their second battle, and Trip was basically an amateur trainer.

to this day I get the feeling the writers might have taken the whole BW "reset" factor abit to far on that by resetting Ash and Pikachu massively.

 

[RafaSceptile]

to this day I get the feeling the writers might have taken the whole BW "reset" factor abit to far on that by resetting Ash and Pikachu massively.

A lot of things in BW feels like a reboot version of the Kanto+OI arc, it seems even obvious with things like Ash capturing the Unova starters in 3 consecutive episodes such as in Kanto, the travelling companions are the first gym leader and another one (at least in the games) with phobia to a specific type of Pokémon and the archipelago arc at the end, also Unova has the season with the highest number of Ash's badges (7) only after Kanto (8).

 

[Morax]

i'm not opposed to the idea of Ash full on mentoring a trainer for one gen though,

Making him a teacher is taking away his role as a main character. If he's retiring then at least give him closure in the form of a timeskip or something.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

Journeys ash is weird in that he has the biggest goal ash has ever had but also seem the least interested in his own goal that he‘s ever been. Since we don‘t see him actively making his way to his next goal or even train that much. Heck, his pokemons barely exists outside PWC, so their progress feels out of nowhere for the most part.

If this was any other series ash we‘d probably see him constantly trying to search out other opponents because je just wants to battle and progress as fast as he can. Here it feels like ash‘s interest in the PWC only exist when it‘s specifically an episode about it. Maybe that‘s why they need the intro to remind people about it every episode?

 

[desdar300]

I say that because Journeys isn't based on one specific thing they've kind of written themselves into a hole.
This is an issue not only for Satoshi but for go as well they have to randomly pull things out of their rears to artificially keep things going.
I say given how open-ended things are the staff is basically asking themselves to be screwed over

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

I say that because Journeys isn't based on one specific thing they've kind of written themselves into a hole.
This is an issue not only for Satoshi but for go as well they have to randomly pull things out of their rears to artificially keep things going.
I say given how open-ended things are the staff is basically asking themselves to be screwed over

I don‘t fully agree on that.

Journeys is actually the perfect format for goh. Since an episodic series where he gets to see different pokemons for whatever random reason to catch works well for his goal. He doesn‘t need to develop his team or anything, since the pattern of random shenanigans tjat leads to a capture works well enough for him.

The problem is ash got shoved in here and really can‘t do much aside when the episode is specifically made to revolve around him. When it comes to battling ir other direct competition plot, a sense of escalation is needed. That has been pretty all over the place with ash in this series. So i think the problem is much more specific to ash.