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What's with this treatment of Ash?

Jers745

I dont know :p
the tell-don't-show and off-screen approach that Journeys
Can we please let that off by now it happened one time and it didnt happen again, i know it could've been better played out but i'm more tired of hearing this than watching goh catch his 10000 pokemon.
Let's see how Ultra Class plays out.
Yeah, i really dont know what to expect (even if it is for good or bad)
 

Panky..

Nobody
Can we please let that off by now it happened one time and it didnt happen again, i know it could've been better played out but i'm more tired of hearing this than watching goh catch his 10000 pokemon.
Not sorry about bringing it up, it's not an isolated incident or a one time occurrence for it to be somehow excused. This has happened on three different occasions (JN039, JN051, JN060). The fact that they made it a regular thing, a cheap way of progressing Ash in his greatest path yet (or not wanting to bother showing it) after wasting his appearances on-screen shows that it's a problem. It's definitely related to this thread, if you're tired of it then please ignore it.
 

KenzeyEevee

Some ppl have the insight of a Magikarp
Not sorry about bringing it up, it's not an isolated incident or a one time occurrence for it to be somehow excused. This has happened on three different occasions (JN039, JN051, JN060). The fact that they made it a regular thing, a cheap way of progressing Ash in his greatest path yet (or not wanting to bother showing it) after wasting his appearances on-screen shows that it's a problem. It's definitely related to this thread, if you're tired of it then please ignore it.
It is annoying that we have nothing to visualise you know
 

Jers745

I dont know :p
Not sorry about bringing it up, it's not an isolated incident or a one time occurrence for it to be somehow excused. This has happened on three different occasions (JN039, JN051, JN060). The fact that they made it a regular thing, a cheap way of progressing Ash in his greatest path yet (or not wanting to bother showing it) after wasting his appearances on-screen shows that it's a problem. It's definitely related to this thread, if you're tired of it then please ignore it.
Fair enough
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus shall be a masterpiece
I don't mind him becoming "unbeatable" as long as it's done properly and shows the cumulative growth as a trainer and his maturity over the years. But if it's done in a poor manner, the tell-don't-show and off-screen approach that Journeys prioritizes for some blasted reason, then it's a big problem and one that can potentially end up making Ash a Gary Stu. So unless they change that approach, the "unbeatable" part is definitely susceptible to skepticism and pessimism.

Let's see how Ultra Class plays out.
I mean, I won't say he is 'unbeatable' at all in the show rn so frankly we don't have an idea whether it will be poorly handled or not. Considering Ash's treatment this saga I can understand the pessimistic attitude BUT what I'm talking here is more about the concept of it, the concept which I believe is fair and long overdue
Not sorry about bringing it up, it's not an isolated incident or a one time occurrence for it to be somehow excused. This has happened on three different occasions (JN039, JN051, JN060). The fact that they made it a regular thing, a cheap way of progressing Ash in his greatest path yet (or not wanting to bother showing it) after wasting his appearances on-screen shows that it's a problem. It's definitely related to this thread, if you're tired of it then please ignore it.
It happened 2 times: When he got into great class offscreen and that horrendous ranking to 400 thing. JN 60 isn't honestly much of an offender in my eyes, be barely ranked above. Those two times were inexcusable though but I'll give it a pass if they handle ultra class and master class properly, esp coz the great class finale with Iris, Rinto's arc and Bea's arc was satisfying to me
 

Panky..

Nobody
I mean, I won't say he is 'unbeatable' at all in the show rn so frankly we don't have an idea whether it will be poorly handled or not. Considering Ash's treatment this saga I can understand the pessimistic attitude BUT what I'm talking here is more about the concept of it, the concept which I believe is fair and long overdue
I'm basing my observation on what has happened in this series so far. Is there scope and potential to improve? Definitely, 100%. Will they deliver on that potential? Skeptical. The way they finished off the Super Class was so underwhelming, and most of his opponents were CotDs/OCs instead of being familiar faces that could have given some weight to the tier.
It happened 2 times: When he got into great class offscreen and that horrendous ranking to 400 thing. JN 60 isn't honestly much of an offender in my eyes, be barely ranked above. Those two times were inexcusable though but I'll give it a pass if they handle ultra class and master class properly, esp coz the great class finale with Iris, Rinto's arc and Bea's arc was satisfying to me
JN060 was definitely bad because it's still large jump, from 381 to 273 and then to 184. That's another ~200 ranks skipped. It doesn't help that the pacing of the battle was quite bad and it was a mere 1v1 (even if the evolution and Sir Yamon were fantastic).

Regardless, the point was that they've shown that they'll resort to cheapness in order to speed things along just for the sake of getting to the plot instead of having a smooth transition, and they've repeated it multiple times.
 
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Ok i think after nearly 25 years of losing the important competition of the region and beign treated as a rookie, i prefer him winning and becoming unbeateable
That's called desperation, even if it ironically has taken that damn long.
 

Jers745

I dont know :p
That's called desperation, even if it ironically has taken that damn long.
Not totally because i only started to care about pokemon when ash winned the alola league, yeah he was my chilhood but i wasnt really interested in him because he was literally a loop (start his adventure, get pokemon, obtain badges, lose the league) sometimes i got glimpses of him like the finals of kalos but rn i'm too much invested in the show to give up
 

KenzeyEevee

Some ppl have the insight of a Magikarp
We never see him train (except Riolu)
He hasnt pokemon with him except when the plot demands it.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
We never see him train (except Riolu)
He hasnt pokemon with him except when the plot demands it.

i'll agree that him not being consistent with who he takes with him is abit annoying.

but as far as "Training" goes. It's not like Journey's is the only series where we've had a "Lack" of training on-screen.

Heck back during the OG series, most of Ash's "Training" was at the expense of beating up Team Rocket every episode which really isn't that much better in hindsight. Yes they got better about it over time and had Ash start working out and training side by side with his pokemon, but even then we still had times where his pokemon did stuff off-screen regardless of that training.

So that in particular in particular is not that annoying to me because at least we know he's doing it, and that is better than simply beating up team rocket every episode.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus shall be a masterpiece
i'll agree that him not being consistent with who he takes with him is abit annoying.

but as far as "Training" goes. It's not like Journey's is the only series where we've had a "Lack" of training on-screen.

Heck back during the OG series, most of Ash's "Training" was at the expense of beating up Team Rocket every episode which really isn't that much better in hindsight. Yes they got better about it over time and had Ash start working out and training side by side with his pokemon, but even then we still had times where his pokemon did stuff off-screen regardless of that training.

So that in particular in particular is not that annoying to me because at least we know he's doing it, and that is better than simply beating up team rocket every episode.
The thing is tho that was the first series. Every series since has shown Ash training a lot, even SM. JN barely shows us scenes except for Riolu or short opening montages. Now people saying Ash doesnt train are just wrong, its the fact its offscreen which is irksome
 
The ironic thing is we've seen Ash train his butt off (and literally his own butt) in SM when said damn series had an extreme lack of battles. Hell, Melmetal got a bit of training when it evolved, but not Naganadel, who came in very fresh and ready, which is another reason its inclusion felt rushed to me.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
The ironic thing is we've seen Ash train his butt off (and literally his own butt) in SM when said damn series had an extreme lack of battles. Hell, Melmetal got a bit of training when it evolved, but not Naganadel, who came in very fresh and ready, which is another reason its inclusion felt rushed to me.
Should of just brought back Poipole before the Alolan League started. That way it could of at least got some training and evolved during Guzzlord's invasion
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Should of just brought back Poipole before the Alolan League started. That way it could of at least got some training and evolved during Guzzlord's invasion
If Poipole was intended to return for the Exhibition Match since the start, it should have been continue to be Ash's Pokémon for S22. Naganadel's return was completely random but at least it got a Win.
 

karanova-1

Mewtwo3214
I think for ash in this series there is one issue where they do not show us him and his pokemons train together as they used to show us in the earlier season that he used to train with each of his pokemon seperately now second issue is they have really sidelined ash for the sake of goh i do not have any problem with ash being sidelined with goh taking the front lead but do not make him entirely sidelined.
 

Kungfu-Bear

Well-Known Member
More unbeatable? What is the fun of that? A protagonist without a challenge?

LIKE HE STRUGGLED ALOT IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF IN THE PWC? HE MAYBE LOST 3 TIMES AND GOT BACK IN THE GREAT CLASS OFFSCREEN. AFTER THAT HE DREW WITH BEA AND BEAT A CHAMP LIKE IT WAS NOTHING
Don't forget the baby Pokémon that has just hatched from its egg and only took a few 'weeks' of training to go head-to-head with the main Pokémon of one of the world's top-ranked trainers.
 
My main gripe I'm having with this series is one, the lack of battles to showcase Ash progressing further into PWC, and secondly, his Pokemon not shown interacting with one another. I just find it jarring that Ash who has always been shown to interact with his Pokemon in some way, isn't doing so much often in this series. Nowadays it's mainly Pikachu showing up, with the occasional brief appearances of his other Pokemon.
 
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