MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
The good? The bad? What could have been done better? Would you structure it differently? etc...
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What's your opinion on the Indigo League (OS league arc)?
- Thread starter MetaMantis
- Start date
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
The good:
+The festivities surrounding it like the Moltres flame
+The different terrains for the battle fields
+Letting Krabby/Kingler and Muk get time to shine despite being benchwarmers
+Letting Ash surpass Gary in his placement despite the latter being one step ahead prior to the League to show that Ash had the potential to be better
+Despite his loss, it sets up him improving by actually training his Pokémon.
The bad:
-The loss. From Charizard being a jerk & Squirtle being considered unable to battle because of Sleep Powder to TRio tiring out his Pokémon and him not considering any of his other Pokémon
-Ash not having a Full battle
-The top characters are unknown but before and after the tournament.
Besides making his loss not nearly as embarrassing, I’d have more COTD like AJ and Giselle throughout the series return. Overall the League is mostly lackluster but it’s their first time making one and is meant to be a reality check for Ash so I’m not too hard on it.
+The festivities surrounding it like the Moltres flame
+The different terrains for the battle fields
+Letting Krabby/Kingler and Muk get time to shine despite being benchwarmers
+Letting Ash surpass Gary in his placement despite the latter being one step ahead prior to the League to show that Ash had the potential to be better
+Despite his loss, it sets up him improving by actually training his Pokémon.
The bad:
-The loss. From Charizard being a jerk & Squirtle being considered unable to battle because of Sleep Powder to TRio tiring out his Pokémon and him not considering any of his other Pokémon
-Ash not having a Full battle
-The top characters are unknown but before and after the tournament.
Besides making his loss not nearly as embarrassing, I’d have more COTD like AJ and Giselle throughout the series return. Overall the League is mostly lackluster but it’s their first time making one and is meant to be a reality check for Ash so I’m not too hard on it.
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
The thing that annoys me about OS is that Ash battles Gary how many times... Ah yes.. ZERO. I think his loss should be to Gary in the top 16.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Are you asking this for every league?
I want to watch XYZ but at the same time I don’t because of the Kalos League. I’m going have to do it at some point even if it causes me a lot of pain.
I want to watch XYZ but at the same time I don’t because of the Kalos League. I’m going have to do it at some point even if it causes me a lot of pain.
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
I will ask this of every league eventually yes.
The Kalos league pains me too. Greninja was done dirty.
Leonhart
Imagineer
It was rather mediocre from my viewpoint. What hurts the most is that it started off rather promising in its first episode since the writers developed the concept of the Sekiei League quite well. However things went downhill starting in EP075: Satoshi versus Komu was appalling. It didn't make sense that Satoshi's Crab, which had never been in a proper battle before, defeated all three of Komu's Pokemon even accounting for its evolution into Kingler. Then EP076 made things worse by skipping most of the rock field battle and only giving us the end with Zenigame beating Nidorino. Then we had to deal with the Rocket-dan subplot in the middle of the episode, which was unnecessary. As a result the ice field battle between Satoshi and Seiji was cut short as well.
I suppose that EP077 was an improvement over the previous League battle episodes, but even that battle irked me somewhat due to Betbeton beating Kaoruko's Madatsubomi with a single Body Slam. I didn't enjoy Hiroshi's character, so the next few episodes weren't exactly enjoyable to me. I didn't necessarily mind that Satoshi lost to him, and truthfully speaking I did feel a sense of schadenfreude when Lizardon cost Satoshi the match, but the battle itself was too bland to be entertaining. The other things that I disliked about the Sekiei League were that Shigeru lost early on, and also that there weren't more characters from previous episodes competing in the tournament.
I suppose that EP077 was an improvement over the previous League battle episodes, but even that battle irked me somewhat due to Betbeton beating Kaoruko's Madatsubomi with a single Body Slam. I didn't enjoy Hiroshi's character, so the next few episodes weren't exactly enjoyable to me. I didn't necessarily mind that Satoshi lost to him, and truthfully speaking I did feel a sense of schadenfreude when Lizardon cost Satoshi the match, but the battle itself was too bland to be entertaining. The other things that I disliked about the Sekiei League were that Shigeru lost early on, and also that there weren't more characters from previous episodes competing in the tournament.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
It's basically the only badly written league that is actually fun lol
I love the SoL elements of it, the characterizations, the festivities and buildup, the shenanigans, the Bellsprout battle, Krabby shining even if it didnt make sense
But the writing was horrendous, the loss was bad, Gary losing earlier was bad and it's just not written well and a product of it's time honestly
Slightly better than the Unova league and Slightly below the Hoenn league Id say
I love the SoL elements of it, the characterizations, the festivities and buildup, the shenanigans, the Bellsprout battle, Krabby shining even if it didnt make sense
But the writing was horrendous, the loss was bad, Gary losing earlier was bad and it's just not written well and a product of it's time honestly
Slightly better than the Unova league and Slightly below the Hoenn league Id say
Locormus
Can we please get the older, old forum back?
I look back on the Indigo League with great fondness, watching it back before the 2000s hit.
That being said.. most of the things it did wouldn't fly today. For several reasons:
1. The "fandom" has turned batshlt-crazy these last few years (read: after the Kalos League). These new "fans" simply wouldn't understand the zeitgeist of the show at the time.
2. Current "fandom" is riddled with a group that wants to "powerscale" everything - and if it doesn't fit that narrative, then it sucks. Krabby's win wouldn't fly, Muk being a beast would be criticized, Charizard losing to Sparky would make no sense..
But I was around at the time and when you look at how Ash got the eight badges then yeah.. the Indigo League was a natural progression in terms of how the writers handled things.
Also, powerscaling in what's essentially shonen with your typical shonen-tropes really doesn't make sense since the power of friendship and magical powerups will always be a thing.. xD
Kingler's evolution and sweep, Muk vs. Bellsprout, Pikachu dodging that Fire are iconic moments in the series that are instantly recognizable.
What I would change in this day and age is:
1. Returning characters needed to happen. We meet Otoshi a few episodes before the league and he is a capable trainer that told Ash he was going to be competing and then we DON'T see him at the league. AJ: What was he doing?! This guy was hellbent on becoming the bestI'm fine with the characters Ash fought as they were very memorable designs.
2. Don't SKIP battles! Squirtle didn't have many wins in gyms, Pidgeotto never got any fair recognition.. despite having quite a few wins and.. TAUROS people. Ash had one of the OG powerhouses and it didn't get any battles until Ash fought Drake and was shown strong straight of the bat. Skipping battles means the lesser heroes get little to no chances to show their mettle. It's crazy that they still did this in BestWishes and even XYZ..
3. I wanted to see Gary battle at the League at least once. Not even against Ash necessarily. Having him lose to AJ's Sandslash or Otoshi's Marowak would've been awesome.
Again, I wouldn't change much about the arc.. Top16 is a valid position for Ash to end on. But at least make work of Ash's rivalry with Gary (as opposed to mentioning that Ash reached Top16 and that Gary already lost: show not tell!), give all of Ash's pokemon a solid moment and don't forget about the characters you set-up..
That being said.. most of the things it did wouldn't fly today. For several reasons:
1. The "fandom" has turned batshlt-crazy these last few years (read: after the Kalos League). These new "fans" simply wouldn't understand the zeitgeist of the show at the time.
2. Current "fandom" is riddled with a group that wants to "powerscale" everything - and if it doesn't fit that narrative, then it sucks. Krabby's win wouldn't fly, Muk being a beast would be criticized, Charizard losing to Sparky would make no sense..
But I was around at the time and when you look at how Ash got the eight badges then yeah.. the Indigo League was a natural progression in terms of how the writers handled things.
Also, powerscaling in what's essentially shonen with your typical shonen-tropes really doesn't make sense since the power of friendship and magical powerups will always be a thing.. xD
Kingler's evolution and sweep, Muk vs. Bellsprout, Pikachu dodging that Fire are iconic moments in the series that are instantly recognizable.
What I would change in this day and age is:
1. Returning characters needed to happen. We meet Otoshi a few episodes before the league and he is a capable trainer that told Ash he was going to be competing and then we DON'T see him at the league. AJ: What was he doing?! This guy was hellbent on becoming the bestI'm fine with the characters Ash fought as they were very memorable designs.
2. Don't SKIP battles! Squirtle didn't have many wins in gyms, Pidgeotto never got any fair recognition.. despite having quite a few wins and.. TAUROS people. Ash had one of the OG powerhouses and it didn't get any battles until Ash fought Drake and was shown strong straight of the bat. Skipping battles means the lesser heroes get little to no chances to show their mettle. It's crazy that they still did this in BestWishes and even XYZ..
3. I wanted to see Gary battle at the League at least once. Not even against Ash necessarily. Having him lose to AJ's Sandslash or Otoshi's Marowak would've been awesome.
Again, I wouldn't change much about the arc.. Top16 is a valid position for Ash to end on. But at least make work of Ash's rivalry with Gary (as opposed to mentioning that Ash reached Top16 and that Gary already lost: show not tell!), give all of Ash's pokemon a solid moment and don't forget about the characters you set-up..
janejane6178
Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Iconic, beautiful with un fugly artstyle, wonderful characters, nostalgic, not any child can enter without battle experience, the last opponent was respected, competitive with real battle qualifications
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
It aged very poorly,no memorable battles other than Ash's Kingler going on a rampage through the other trainers' pokemon and Charizard deciding to take a nap costing Ash the battle against Ritchie.
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
The only positive opinion I've seen in this thread lol
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
Well you can't judge the masters 8 because we've only had 1 battle. Wait until the tourney is over to judge that.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
The second worst Pokémon League which somehow was better than Unova, but at least this have an excuse of being the very first Pokémon League ever, and fortunately, most leagues fixed the problems of this one, except Unova.
Leonhart
Imagineer
You're referring to Hiroshi? And what does "real battle qualifications" refer to? Hiroshi ranked higher than Satoshi in the tournament, but only due to plot contrivances like the Rocket-dan interfering before the battle, and Lizardon refusing to battle. Not to mention that his team wasn't particularly spectacular either. Had plot not gotten in the way, he would've been a run-of-the-mill trainer even by OS standards.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Positives: Ritchie, Kingler
Negatives: TRio, Ash should’ve lost to Gary
Negatives: TRio, Ash should’ve lost to Gary
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
A loss to Gary in Kanto would make the Johto win feel more earned imo.
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
I get what they were trying to do here with Ash getting some lucky wins and then facing reality, but having TR kidnap Ash and the weird new rules with "sleep powder=KO" makes it feel like the universe was conspiring against Ash rather than him needing a wake-up call. It would've come together better if they had done an in-match way of Ash feeling forced to bring out Charizard.
Kuzehiko
That moment I found a lifetime treasure
This league is hot garbage.
The disrespect to Ash is beyond shameful. This league was rushed as heck, Gary also lost in early rounds. The only memorable thing about it was Ash's Kingler's performance. Battles were forgettable. One of the worst leagues.
The disrespect to Ash is beyond shameful. This league was rushed as heck, Gary also lost in early rounds. The only memorable thing about it was Ash's Kingler's performance. Battles were forgettable. One of the worst leagues.