Pokeshipper_
Well-Known Member
The yellow boy is the electro boy with the copy Pikachu of the VII generation
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What's your opinion on the Manalo Conference? (Alola league)
- Thread starter Kuzehiko
- Start date
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
The fact that they can't even use the actual names of the characters shows how much they don't like it LMAO
Pokeshipper_
Well-Known Member
You didn't have make a name of a trainer or of a "weak" and "not trained" mon used, so you're doing false claims!
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Not more false than saying the Alola League is not a real league which is directly contradicted by the anime's canon
Pokeshipper_
Well-Known Member
If Alola "League" is a real league, then the Don George tournaments were a more serious league with experienced trainers
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
They were not leagues. The only league was the Unova League. The closest similar is the Junior Cup and it wasn't a league.
Pokeshipper_
Well-Known Member
Sadly they look both a league more than the Alola "league", what a shame
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
That doesn't change the fact that the Alola League is a actual league
Damerdal
[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
What I liked about the Manalo Conference is that it truly....exemplied Alola and the tonality of the SM series.
This is the very first time a league is being held in the islands - of course it's going to be a bit rough around the edges.
Of course everyone is invited! "Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten."
That 151 battle royale preliminary was right up the alley with the zany humor SM had going with its lighthearted tropical fun. It allowed for all of the main cast to advance in a nontraditional way.
While it could be argued that some of the battles weren't as well-animated or having as much strategic depth as those found in prior leagues, I thought a lot of the 1 v 1s and 2 v 2s were fairly entertaining and not just OHKO blowouts. Ash vs Gladion was definitely a quality 3 v 3 showdown.
Lastly, I appreciated that the writers didn't rush this league. It felt like previous league conferences had to be restricted to 6-8 episodes, whereas the Manalo Conference was allowed to breath over its 11 episode span.
Now for the cons:
It's probably a fair assessment to say that the Manalo Conference felt more akin to a Battle Club tourney than an actual league conference, especially with the lack of full battles. It's true that a trainer like Sophocles wouldn't have made the Top 8 at the Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh Leagues. At the end of the day though, the top 4 was Ash, Gladion, Kiawe, and Guzma, all of whom are solid trainers, even if the latter 3 don't exactly have full teams. However, chalk that up to META - the writers didn't give them additional Pokemon because the Manalo Conference didn't have full battles.
A bit about that last part - there's definitely a sense of grandeur that comes with full battles (the same feeling is replicated in the video games too), which unfortunately the Manalo Conference lacked. Ash vs Gladion at the very least should have been a full battle, since Gladion already had 4 known Pokemon. I think Ash's first league conference should have had a bit more spectacle.
However, even that's partially excused because the writers obviously saved everything up for that wild 4-episode full battle against Kukui (the Champion in the video games) for the title of undisputed best trainer of the Alola region.
I think it's all personal preference. The Johto League was the Charizard redemption climax. The Hoenn League was battle extravaganza. The Sinnoh League had the best battle in the entire series in Ash vs Paul. The Kalos League had two very well-animated full battles. And the Alola League was narratively inclusive and plain fun.
This is the very first time a league is being held in the islands - of course it's going to be a bit rough around the edges.
Of course everyone is invited! "Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten."
That 151 battle royale preliminary was right up the alley with the zany humor SM had going with its lighthearted tropical fun. It allowed for all of the main cast to advance in a nontraditional way.
While it could be argued that some of the battles weren't as well-animated or having as much strategic depth as those found in prior leagues, I thought a lot of the 1 v 1s and 2 v 2s were fairly entertaining and not just OHKO blowouts. Ash vs Gladion was definitely a quality 3 v 3 showdown.
Lastly, I appreciated that the writers didn't rush this league. It felt like previous league conferences had to be restricted to 6-8 episodes, whereas the Manalo Conference was allowed to breath over its 11 episode span.
Now for the cons:
It's probably a fair assessment to say that the Manalo Conference felt more akin to a Battle Club tourney than an actual league conference, especially with the lack of full battles. It's true that a trainer like Sophocles wouldn't have made the Top 8 at the Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh Leagues. At the end of the day though, the top 4 was Ash, Gladion, Kiawe, and Guzma, all of whom are solid trainers, even if the latter 3 don't exactly have full teams. However, chalk that up to META - the writers didn't give them additional Pokemon because the Manalo Conference didn't have full battles.
A bit about that last part - there's definitely a sense of grandeur that comes with full battles (the same feeling is replicated in the video games too), which unfortunately the Manalo Conference lacked. Ash vs Gladion at the very least should have been a full battle, since Gladion already had 4 known Pokemon. I think Ash's first league conference should have had a bit more spectacle.
However, even that's partially excused because the writers obviously saved everything up for that wild 4-episode full battle against Kukui (the Champion in the video games) for the title of undisputed best trainer of the Alola region.
I think it's all personal preference. The Johto League was the Charizard redemption climax. The Hoenn League was battle extravaganza. The Sinnoh League had the best battle in the entire series in Ash vs Paul. The Kalos League had two very well-animated full battles. And the Alola League was narratively inclusive and plain fun.
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Ragnarok4
2024
Nah, I will explain my reasons later
JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
The badges argument loses credibility the more you think about it.
- OS established alternate methods to enter the Kanto League very early on. There is precedence that there are other not-getting-badges ways trainers can qualify for the league tournament.
- There is no established baseline of strength that all gym leaders must meet. Yes, I know about the DP Brock special, but it's not like Brock's brother wasn't allowed to be a gym leader because he lost against Inspector Joy.
- There are canonically other gyms beyond the eight Ash challenges in each region. See: Gary with 10 badges, Sawyer with badges that Ash didn't get, Barry (probably, I don't remember his badge case)
- It's also canon that the same type can have multiple gym leaders in the same region to represent it. See: Cheren and Lenora, Brock's clearly-not-dead mom and Misty
- Even having a badge doesn't necessarily say anything about that trainer's strength. Volkner's badge could easily have been a freebie for anyone that wasn't Ash or Paul.
In theory, a Kalos League competitor could easily have beaten eight gyms weaker than Viola and still be able to enter the league. Or they could have beaten eight gyms stronger than Wulfric and just jobbed or gotten a bad matchup in the prelims. Or maybe they got eight badges for free because the leaders they met were lazy, or maybe they didn't fight the gyms at all but some did some other thing we'll never know. Like maybe, being a winner in some offscreen battle royale? Just some food for thought.
- OS established alternate methods to enter the Kanto League very early on. There is precedence that there are other not-getting-badges ways trainers can qualify for the league tournament.
- There is no established baseline of strength that all gym leaders must meet. Yes, I know about the DP Brock special, but it's not like Brock's brother wasn't allowed to be a gym leader because he lost against Inspector Joy.
- There are canonically other gyms beyond the eight Ash challenges in each region. See: Gary with 10 badges, Sawyer with badges that Ash didn't get, Barry (probably, I don't remember his badge case)
- It's also canon that the same type can have multiple gym leaders in the same region to represent it. See: Cheren and Lenora, Brock's clearly-not-dead mom and Misty
- Even having a badge doesn't necessarily say anything about that trainer's strength. Volkner's badge could easily have been a freebie for anyone that wasn't Ash or Paul.
In theory, a Kalos League competitor could easily have beaten eight gyms weaker than Viola and still be able to enter the league. Or they could have beaten eight gyms stronger than Wulfric and just jobbed or gotten a bad matchup in the prelims. Or maybe they got eight badges for free because the leaders they met were lazy, or maybe they didn't fight the gyms at all but some did some other thing we'll never know. Like maybe, being a winner in some offscreen battle royale? Just some food for thought.
Ryker101
Well-Known Member
While I agree that Alola’s league had the weakest contestants on average, that criticism’s still overblown imo. Ash still had to face the strongest trainers like Gladion, Guzma and Kukui. Hell he could’ve fought Ilima in semis but Guzma beat him fair and square. I also wouldn’t discredit Kiawe, Gladion, Guzma, Ilima and Kukui in particular, bc they’re stronger than ppl think
Ilima literally participated in the Kalos league, so by definition he is above Gym leader level.
Kukui has an incredibly balanced team and with Koko he’s easy E4 for me. In the games he’s even taken on Lance. While we can’t directly apply his game feats, his power level seems similar and especially with koko he seems even stronger than his game counterpart. Kukui is also a fairly competent battler, part of the reason being him studying moves themselves and being thr masked royal. He’s also shown taking down mega evos (like Aggron) with Incineroar’s z move. So I can see him reaching top 4 in Kalos tbh, his team’s much better than Remo’s at least
Gladion and Guzma are around 6-7th gym leader imo. Gladion’s team doesn’t look tough but his teams full of wildcards. His Silvally can change types on the fly, Zoroark has disguise and he can Z move with either Lycanroc or Zoroark. He’s fairly strategic, running setup moves (swords dance on Lycanroc and Silvally) and having Lycanroc snap itself out of outrage confusion. Guzma is on a similar level for me, but with more brute strength instead of unpredictabllity. His Golisopod is both bulky and powerful, being able to tank z moves and he can exploit his opponents specific weaknesses. Like Lana and Ilima’s mons. Combine this with u turn pivoting on scizor and he would give a number of gym leaders a run for their money if you ask me. Albeit I don’t think they reach that 8th spot, since Volkner, Raihan, Wulfric and even Paul seem on another level to me
Kiawe honestly I’d place around Clemont’s level. So around 5-6th gym leader. He’s got 3 fully evolved pokemon, all of which can use z moves. Charizard in particular was his grandfather’s mon and almost beat Ash’s Lycanroc in a 1v1. Shell smash on Turtonator is busted and he would’ve beat Gladion if he didn’t switch types. Yeah he lost to Brock but that was way back, he still held his own against someone with more experience than him using a mega. Honestly Clemont’s team didn’t impress me outside of Luxray, so I think Kiawe is around his level
I’m not saying these are Ash’s toughest opponents but don’t disrespect my boys like this
Ilima literally participated in the Kalos league, so by definition he is above Gym leader level.
Kukui has an incredibly balanced team and with Koko he’s easy E4 for me. In the games he’s even taken on Lance. While we can’t directly apply his game feats, his power level seems similar and especially with koko he seems even stronger than his game counterpart. Kukui is also a fairly competent battler, part of the reason being him studying moves themselves and being thr masked royal. He’s also shown taking down mega evos (like Aggron) with Incineroar’s z move. So I can see him reaching top 4 in Kalos tbh, his team’s much better than Remo’s at least
Gladion and Guzma are around 6-7th gym leader imo. Gladion’s team doesn’t look tough but his teams full of wildcards. His Silvally can change types on the fly, Zoroark has disguise and he can Z move with either Lycanroc or Zoroark. He’s fairly strategic, running setup moves (swords dance on Lycanroc and Silvally) and having Lycanroc snap itself out of outrage confusion. Guzma is on a similar level for me, but with more brute strength instead of unpredictabllity. His Golisopod is both bulky and powerful, being able to tank z moves and he can exploit his opponents specific weaknesses. Like Lana and Ilima’s mons. Combine this with u turn pivoting on scizor and he would give a number of gym leaders a run for their money if you ask me. Albeit I don’t think they reach that 8th spot, since Volkner, Raihan, Wulfric and even Paul seem on another level to me
Kiawe honestly I’d place around Clemont’s level. So around 5-6th gym leader. He’s got 3 fully evolved pokemon, all of which can use z moves. Charizard in particular was his grandfather’s mon and almost beat Ash’s Lycanroc in a 1v1. Shell smash on Turtonator is busted and he would’ve beat Gladion if he didn’t switch types. Yeah he lost to Brock but that was way back, he still held his own against someone with more experience than him using a mega. Honestly Clemont’s team didn’t impress me outside of Luxray, so I think Kiawe is around his level
I’m not saying these are Ash’s toughest opponents but don’t disrespect my boys like this
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Take Alain and Tobias out, and maybe arguably Paul, and the semi finalists of the Alola league are at the same level or better than Ash's other opponents in other leagues
The whole discussion is so disingenious Idk why people even bother engaging with the braindead trolls anymore at this point after so many pages.
Anyway once again I'd like to reiterate, so glad the writers said **** you to the powerscaler Bros in favour of a narrative that's more satisfying and completes Alola's story as a whole, than throw random nobodies for the powerscaler Bros
The no entry requirements aspect makes sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds, but that's too much to ask for Serebii members it seems
Between the battle royale weeding out the nobodies and the subsequent rounds weeding out people who got in by teaming up, we are obviously left with the best of the best, which is the case with semis which again is on par with Ash's opponents on other leagues bar Alain and Tobias and arguably Paul, and with the finale when we have the island challenge completers only battling it out. And then again with Kukui who serves as defacto champion of the region already and was treated as any other champion with the masked royale debut
The whole discussion is so disingenious Idk why people even bother engaging with the braindead trolls anymore at this point after so many pages.
Anyway once again I'd like to reiterate, so glad the writers said **** you to the powerscaler Bros in favour of a narrative that's more satisfying and completes Alola's story as a whole, than throw random nobodies for the powerscaler Bros
The no entry requirements aspect makes sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds, but that's too much to ask for Serebii members it seems
Between the battle royale weeding out the nobodies and the subsequent rounds weeding out people who got in by teaming up, we are obviously left with the best of the best, which is the case with semis which again is on par with Ash's opponents on other leagues bar Alain and Tobias and arguably Paul, and with the finale when we have the island challenge completers only battling it out. And then again with Kukui who serves as defacto champion of the region already and was treated as any other champion with the masked royale debut
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
again
Akkipeddi
All set to be a nice guy
And take out Gary, Harrison, Katie, Tyson, Barry, even freaking Trip with a full team, Cameron, and Virgil, finally Sawyer, and only then they are at the same level, which basically means a lot of trainers.
I'm sure both sides are sick of this discussion so I'm gonna give my piece on this one final time. First of all, the battle Royale was a flawed system of weeding out trainers cause characters like Lillie, Mallow and even freaking Team Rocket were able to cheat the system to get in.
Secondly, I can understand liking the inclusion of everyone for the narrative satisfaction, but it's precisely cause of that reason that the league feels like a free for all school tournament. It makes Ash and Gladion doing the island trials feel pointless cause they would've been able to participate anyway. Getting more Z Crystals? Sure that was a big advantage, but given that Ash and Gladion were anyway experienced trainers, they would've easily cleared the rest of the competition regardless.
Thirdly, it's basically the Alola league that laid the foundation for Ash to become world champion and that just feels extremely jarring to me. The anime repeatedly showed the E4 and champions to be levels above, and we're supposed to believe that winning the Alola league, a competition with iffy at best competition propelled Ash to the same level and beyond? The suspension of disbelief is too much (and ofc a major portion of blame for this depiction also goes to JN).
Again, I can understand enjoying the league for what it was, but I can't stand the implication that it was on the same level and is what pushed Ash to the next level. If it only acted like a humble tournament that celebrated battling in Alola instead of being on the same elite level as others, I probably wouldn't feel so strongly. Even Kukui, who was obviously his most formidable opponent, is tricky to gauge. Sure he's the "Champion" equivalent of Alola, but how do we appropriately scale him, given that his feats are in the battle royale which is a free for all, and is in a region not known for battling.
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Ragnarok4
2024
Guzma's top two Pokemon are stronger than a Mega Kangashkan and golisopod defeated the Torracat that finished off Kukui's Incineroar.
I highly doubt Tyson's cat is stronger than Golisopod..
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
There are literally zero reasons that confirms any of those trainers are objectively stronger, so no, you don't have to take out them. At least Tobias and Alain are quite obvious why.
Power scaling is already dumb in a single series, it gets way dumber between different series.
Pokeshipper_
Well-Known Member
Oh I see some people here using the "troll argument" after they can't reply properly with a real argument
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
When the same people keep saying the exact same stuff over 3 years in a constant basis it is hard to not name them using that term.