• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

When did each series in your opinion start becoming bad/good

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
If you click on the arrow next your name where I quoted you, it actually takes you directly back to where it was quoted from. But for your convenience, I'll just tell you it was SM140.



PJ?



Do you know who janejane is?



Well the bigger problem was that the backstory itself was trash. Even people like you, who didn't care, might have liked the episode if they actually made a good backstory that showed things like why he was living on his own as a Pichu in the first place, why he doesn't like Poké Balls, and how he got caught by Oak. This wasn't really a backstory episode, it was a "let's show a random story" episode like Chronicles, except that we're supposed to believe that's Ash's Pikachu. Like let's be real, in terms of the plot of the episode itself, it was no different in entertainment value that those old Pichu Bros episodes. Those used to be funny, and I remember those used to be for my sister, some of her favorite episodes to rewatch, but they held no major plot value other than being a random adventure of the day for the Pichu. Not a "backstory". And that's what this felt like as well. And on top of everything else, it certainly wasn't helped by the fact that they tried to shove in Goh and Chloe backstory as well. 20 minutes just wasn't enough. And before you tell me 20 minutes is how long every episode is, consider this: Even if every official episode length is 20 minutes, each of the last 4 generations has started with a special of one hour or longer, and the knowledge by the writers that more than one episode is going to air on the premiere date allows them to reveal all the introductory info as a slow burn across 2 or 3 episodes.

Let's consider all the examples since they started doing these expanded premiere specials:

DP: 3 episodes aired together on September 28, 2006 (btw this was the same exact day the games came out)
A lot happens in these 3 episodes. We're introduced to Dawn. Episode 1 feels more like a Dawn episode than an Ash episode, with Ash only appearing at the end. These episodes also feature the first time that Ash and Pikachu have been separated for multiple episodes, they feature Ash's first catch with Pikachu not present, and finally, the climactic tie between Pikachu and Elekid that sets up the entire 191-episode arc. This is all great stuff, and I'm really glad they separated it out into 3 episodes, but note this: if TV Tokyo hadn't given them an hour-and-a-half timeslot that first night, would they have tried to shove all this into only 1 or 2 episodes? See how that could be a problem?

BW: 2 episodes aired together on September 23, 2010, less than a week after the games came out
I'm not a huge fan of the beginning of BW, so I don't have as much to say about these episodes, but I do think that once again, if TV Tokyo hadn't given them a full hour, they might have tried to shove more into episode 1. Not just the introduction of Trip but also the introduction of Iris. And if they had done this, once again, it would have seemed rushed, but shoving too much into 20 minutes.

XY: 2 episodes aired together on October 17, 2013 (and in the US on October 19, 2013!)
Without TV Tokyo once again giving Pokémon an hour, I think they might have tried to shove too much into 20 minutes, including Ash meeting Clemont and Bonnie, the separate Serena storyline, the Froakie storyline, the jumping off the tower and introduction of Blaziken Mask. There was a lot there, and especially with the clear 2-part storyline (episode 1 ends on a cliffhanger) I do think they were only able to do all this because of the hour timeslot.

SM: 2 episodes aired together on November 17, 2016 (BEFORE the games even came out!)
I actually don't have a problem with SM001 even if it had been a standalone premiere, but I think you guys get the point by now of how I think multiple episodes are needed for a premiere.

So now that brings us to PJ, where what does TV Tokyo do after all these generations of extended timeslots? Only a 30 min timeslot, which sank this episode. If it had been a one-hour premiere, I think the Goh and Chloe backstory could have been a separate episode from the Pikachu backstory, which could have fleshed out BOTH of those much better. As it stands, it is a trash episode as you said, but I don't think it's only because some people didn't want to see Pikachu's backstory. I think it's because they didn't have enough time to flesh **** out in only a 20-min episode, and they rushed it by shoving in too much. I hope next generation, TV Tokyo goes back to giving an extended timeslot to Pokémon for the premiere. But, maybe it has to do with the whole Sunday instead of Thursday thing now, and maybe Pokémon's ****ed from ever getting that again.



Hm, I guess you really don't know who janejane is.



Yes, but remember, there's a mudkip meme. Memes outside the show can also cause starters to seem silly. Like the Smugleaf thing as well.



And not only that, but speaking of not using his team wisely, what the writers should have done was that Clemont should have been the 8th gym leader, **** the game order. Then, make it a full 6on6, and make his team Dedenne, Chespin, Bunnelby, Magneton, Heliolisk, and Luxray! As it stands, we still haven't had a gym leader use more than 3 Pokémon since Candice, not even the gym leader who came right after her, Volkner, who should have used Raichu.

This would have solved 2 problems: by having the 8th gym in Lumiose, they would have already been right there for the league. The stupid fast traveling that illogically happened at the end wouldn't have been needed. Also, Clemont's arc, which basically ended after the 5th gym, could have gone on for the whole series.



Speaking of Ash and Grass types in XY&Z, why the HELL didn't he catch that Phantump? He had an empty slot, he had no Grass type, which was a type that he had caught in every generation, AND Phantump's debut had been delayed so long for no reason. Usually when debuts are delayed, like Togekiss, it's because that Pokémon is going to get a lot of focus later, by getting caught. Considering that Phantump wasn't caught, I have no idea why it didn't just debut way earlier and appear throughout the generation as a background mon.



Well, SM did give the male companion the Pikaclone, something that had only previously been with chicks (Dawn, Iris, and Bonnie)



Yeah, they even remembered Buneary's in DP191
LOLL what does PJ mean?
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
Unova: Decent. I don't know why people hate this season so much besides Ash being "reset" or whatever. I know people complain about Iris and Cilan, too, but I liked Cilan, and Iris, to an extent. I've never really had a problem with Ash being a beginner again, either. Ash hadn't seen a lot of the Unova Pokemon before, so. There was some bs, though, I won't deny it. The Elesa battle was p bad. The Pokemon League was bs, also. But, not all of the Unova saga was. There was some good moments, like the N arc.
Looking back at BW, I kind of see it as Pokemon's equivalent to Dragon Ball GT since it mostly comes down to wasted potential. It started off strong but after the cancellation of TR vs TP, the series slowly started to go downhill as it got too formulaic, didn't do anything with the new characters or pushed them past their tropes/running gags, and started relying more on nostalgia by bringing back older characters and hardly doing anything with them.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I didn't write my opinion on PJ: Well, PJ is still good after 45 episodes( there are couple of bad episodes though).It didn't start becoming bad so far.
Slight update: Kanto and OI never bad: Watched all and enjoyed it.
Johto: periodically: it turn bad when they showed many unnecessary fillers then they show OK gym battle and then back to fillers until a league.
Hoenn: Actually I like it all despite Hoenn season had some meh fillers( much much better than Johto ones)
DP: Like it all except fillers between 7th-8th gym.
BW: I liked/watched it all except entirety of Decolore Islands.
XY; Liked it all
SM: Periodically it had bad fillers(which are on par with Johto ones) until Totem( Wishiwashi and Gumshoos)/Kahuna battles, Misty and Brock episodes(only first 2), Lusamine arc( last 4 episodes); Alola League, Dia arc,Nanu arc,Necrozma arc( it was OK) and Alola league.
 
Last edited:

Evstike

Take me back to peak pokemon
Just realized I haven't posted here yet. I've only watched enough of XY-JN to form a proper opinion.

XY: Amazing start, stretch of meh filler-ish episodes, and then the rest got gradually better until the entire show peaked with XYZ.
SM: Phenomenal first year until it gradually got worse after the Aether arc. Third year had the occasional great episode until one of my least favourite points in the show: the Alola league.
JN: Never was good, and still isn't.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I think I should update this a bit:

OS: Good first season but the Indigo League, great OI arc, then meh during most of Johto except the occasional good gym battle and the mini TR arcs, untilit peaked in the Johto League.
AG: Very meh for Ash during the Hoenn arc, especially during the Hoenn League, but great for May. Then in the Battle Frontier arc it was great most of the time.
DP: The most consistent of them all, good from start to finish. The weakest part is probably the 1 year gap between the 7th and 8th badge but even then it wasn't that bad.
BW: Good start, but then after the TR vs TP cancelled, it was getting worse and worse. The Unova League was the worst arc ever, then the Team Plasma arc was decently good, and then the DI arc was filler but at least some enjoyable.
XY: Great first season, then a meh second season but Ash vs Clemont and Ash vs Olympia, then an amazing Ash-Greninja arc with a meh Kalos League and a final peak in the Team Flare arc.
SM: Great first season with a first peak in the Aether Fundation arc, then another meh second season when the better part was the Ula Ula arc and the Necrozma arc was OK (I guess), then the last season was getting a bit better until the final peak in the Alola League.
JN: The most inconsistent? Very good episodes, but also very bad episodes, both alternating a lot of times, but overall, I thing is more good than bad.
 

Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
OS: Took a dive once they got to Johto. And I don't like how Misty lost her spunk and became cardboard after Togepi went to her.

AG: I don't really remember enough of this series to say for sure. I actually need to rewatch this series sometime. But I do know that nothing really stood out to me in this series. The fact that the only Episodes I can actually recall are Battle Frontier Episodes which probably tells me all I need to know.

DP: That slogfest between the 7th and 8th Gyms. The League sucked too

BW: Everything from Elesa and onwards. And I'll just leave it at that

XY: Once XYZ came along. It just became the Ash and Greninja show

SM: I liked the whole show throughout. But I can see how the fillers may have annoyed some people tho

JN: Got off to a really rocky start. Recently it took a rise in quality (imo) starting from Flygon's capture Episode and onwards (tho still a couple of bumps here and there).
Granted the show's not over yet so I'm still reserving my judgement til the very end.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan

Evstike

Take me back to peak pokemon
What don't you like about it?
Wish I didn't have to go on a long rant but I have many issues which outweigh the little positives in my eyes.

Compared to the original Japanese version of every prior series, it feels so devoid of soul. Fun adventures with the cast and the Pokemon have been replaced with "how many Pokemon can Goh catch?" or generic battle episodes without any buildup or importance in the long run. The regions lack any identity and instead of showing off the brand new region and its Pokemon, Galar feels more generic than the generic filler towns of past series, made even worse by the constant clouds and dreariness. The endings, which either reflect the spirit of the show or provide fun little clips have been replaced by a lame Pokemon name game with no relation to the show itself. Scenes like the Oak segments of XY and the PokeProblems of SM are gone with no replacement.

Every single character has been handled horribly. Goh either faces too many hardships or gets everything handed to him on a silver platter. He also seems to constantly flipflop between extremely sociable and obnoxious to introverted and shy. He went from being less athletic and more analytical than Ash to a second Ash. Ash himself started out in peak form with Pikachu and Ash retaining their strength and competence. Nowadays, Pikachu gets bodied and Ash constantly forgets type matchups. Ash is super OOC, caring more about food than new Pokemon or a new region, neglecting Pikachu, and being overconfident. Team Rocket is complete garbage and would make no difference if they left the show. The best part about them: their bonds with their Pokemon, has been completely removed and their schemes are worse than ever. We don't even talk about how they botched the Galar characters. The lack of proper rivals and conflict is painfully boring.

Also, the lack of humans and Pokemon (that aren't in Goh's prison collection) is unsettling

Pacing is all over the place, continuity bait and very selective but useless continuity is annoying, Koharu is such wasted potential that the cast desperately needs, the aimlessness and lack of direction is hurting the show, Ash and Goh's teams are nonexistent and all feel like tools, and much more.

Visuals have taken a huge step back from the last 2 series. Animation has plummeted, art looks soulless, and there's very little signs of improvement. The new soundtrack doesn't sound like Pokemon, and all the iconic tracks and game remixes have been replaced by unfitting, boring noises. After 2 series of breaking boundaries, going to something that plays as safe as this in just about every aspect is a disappointment.
tl;dr: Directionless, poor decisions & pacing, a total change up of the show for the worse, soulless, and an utter disappointment after the previous 2 series which broke the boundaries for Pokemon.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
All great points.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Wish I didn't have to go on a long rant but I have many issues which outweigh the little positives in my eyes.

Compared to the original Japanese version of every prior series, it feels so devoid of soul. Fun adventures with the cast and the Pokemon have been replaced with "how many Pokemon can Goh catch?" or generic battle episodes without any buildup or importance in the long run. The regions lack any identity and instead of showing off the brand new region and its Pokemon, Galar feels more generic than the generic filler towns of past series, made even worse by the constant clouds and dreariness. The endings, which either reflect the spirit of the show or provide fun little clips have been replaced by a lame Pokemon name game with no relation to the show itself. Scenes like the Oak segments of XY and the PokeProblems of SM are gone with no replacement.

Every single character has been handled horribly. Goh either faces too many hardships or gets everything handed to him on a silver platter. He also seems to constantly flipflop between extremely sociable and obnoxious to introverted and shy. He went from being less athletic and more analytical than Ash to a second Ash. Ash himself started out in peak form with Pikachu and Ash retaining their strength and competence. Nowadays, Pikachu gets bodied and Ash constantly forgets type matchups. Ash is super OOC, caring more about food than new Pokemon or a new region, neglecting Pikachu, and being overconfident. Team Rocket is complete garbage and would make no difference if they left the show. The best part about them: their bonds with their Pokemon, has been completely removed and their schemes are worse than ever. We don't even talk about how they botched the Galar characters. The lack of proper rivals and conflict is painfully boring.

Also, the lack of humans and Pokemon (that aren't in Goh's prison collection) is unsettling

Pacing is all over the place, continuity bait and very selective but useless continuity is annoying, Koharu is such wasted potential that the cast desperately needs, the aimlessness and lack of direction is hurting the show, Ash and Goh's teams are nonexistent and all feel like tools, and much more.

Visuals have taken a huge step back from the last 2 series. Animation has plummeted, art looks soulless, and there's very little signs of improvement. The new soundtrack doesn't sound like Pokemon, and all the iconic tracks and game remixes have been replaced by unfitting, boring noises. After 2 series of breaking boundaries, going to something that plays as safe as this in just about every aspect is a disappointment.
tl;dr: Directionless, poor decisions & pacing, a total change up of the show for the worse, soulless, and an utter disappointment after the previous 2 series which broke the boundaries for Pokemon.
Exactly. Soulless is accurate
 
Top