Where Johto went wrong

[CyberCubed]

Ash's Johto team was so disappointing in retrospect. Prior to the Unova team they were probably his worst developed pokemon team of the entire series.

I did like Chikoita/Bayleef's personality, it was cute to have a pokemon like Ash for the first time before they repeated it with Aipom.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

bayleaf: 3 gymbattles 2 wins

cyndaquil: 5 gymbattles 4 wins

totodile 1 gymbattle 0 wins

noctowl 1 gymbattle 2 wins

phanpy 0

heracross 0

picachu 8 gymbattles 6 wins

snorlax 1 gymbattle 1 win

charizard 2 gymbattles 2 wins

kanto was far superior in useage.

Of course, but that doesn't mean he didn't use his Johto Pokemon: that claim is outright false. In comparison to his Kanto Team, though, you're right, but you didn't mention that until now.

 

[yuoke]

Main obvioua problems are under developed pokemon, clash of ash's kanto and johto team, fillers, lack of heavu character developement for any of the three and gary besides a little at the end. There were a few good battles here or there, but as a whole it just really lacked substance and new stuff.

 

[Grei]

Ash's Johto team was so disappointing in retrospect. Prior to the Unova team they were probably his worst developed pokemon team of the entire series.

I did like Chikoita/Bayleef's personality, it was cute to have a pokemon like Ash for the first time before they repeated it with Aipom.

I think even now, the Johto team is much worse in the development department. You're saying this because the disappointment of Unova is still fresh in your mind.

For example:

Johto:
5 captures, 6 if you count Phanpy
1 evolution within the Johto saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: Pikachu, and Cyndaquil (kind of)

Unova:
8 captures
7 evolutions within the Unova saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: It was mostly even; we didn't have an Infernape this time around (though Krookodile came close)

There's no comparison. Johto was still much, much worse than Unova. Unova didn't live up to many's expectations, but it was in no way worse than Johto.

 

[CyberCubed]

I think even now, the Johto team is much worse in the development department. You're saying this because the disappointment of Unova is still fresh in your mind.

For example:

Johto:
5 captures, 6 if you count Phanpy
1 evolution within the Johto saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: Pikachu, and Cyndaquil (kind of)

Unova:
8 captures
7 evolutions within the Unova saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: It was mostly even; we didn't have an Infernape this time around (though Krookodile came close)

There's no comparison. Johto was still much, much worse than Unova. Unova didn't live up to many's expectations, but it was in no way worse than Johto.

Yeah but Ash's Unova team was nonsensical because of all the captures. I do not get why the writers had Ash capture so many pokemon, and then they rushed through the saga and make some bland filler island arc afterward where none of his Unova Pokemon develop.

I honestly forget which Pokemon Ash had in Unova after the starters because of how little they were used. I bet years from now nobody will remember Ash ever had a Palpitoad, Leavanny or a Boldore.

At least XY looks like its being handled similar to either his AG or DP teams. Its too early to say but it'll probably wind up something similar.

 

[Demonsead]

The filler. It's pretty much responsible for the other problems in Johto,

 

[Grei]

Yeah but Ash's Unova team was nonsensical because of all the captures. I do not get why the writers had Ash capture so many pokemon, and then they rushed through the saga and make some bland filler island arc afterward where none of his Unova Pokemon develop.

I think it was a neat idea, personally. Well, the rotation thing, not the rushing thing. They probably just had a lot of Pokemon from Unova that they wanted Ash to showcase, so they made him rotate who would be in his party.

And I have to wonder just how much the anime writers know about upcoming games. They have to know some stuff so that they can make promotional stuff for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pacing of Unova was interrupted because, out of nowhere, the writers had B2W2 to look forward to, and then very soon after that, X and Y.

I also have to wonder how the Unova saga would have panned out if they had been able to premiere that particular Plasma special. It's possible that that factored into Unova's weird pacing, too.

I honestly forget which Pokemon Ash had in Unova after the starters because of how little they were used. I bet years from now nobody will remember Ash ever had a Palpitoad, Leavanny or a Boldore.

True. But isn't this true for most of his Pokemon? We all know how it'll work: they'll end up getting used in the League or some filler saga, and it won't matter how much they were used in Unova.

At least XY looks like its being handled similar to either his AG or DP teams. Its too early to say but it'll probably wind up something similar.

Still too early to call this...

 

[phanpycross]

Of course, but that doesn't mean he didn't use his Johto Pokemon: that claim is outright false. In comparison to his Kanto Team, though, you're right, but you didn't mention that until now.

Oh wow dude im sorry, i did not even notice how wrong i Said that, due to my intense amount of ego, but that was what i really meant.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

I think even now, the Johto team is much worse in the development department. You're saying this because the disappointment of Unova is still fresh in your mind.

For example:

Johto:
5 captures, 6 if you count Phanpy
1 evolution within the Johto saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: Pikachu, and Cyndaquil (kind of)

Unova:
8 captures
7 evolutions within the Unova saga
Pokemon used primarily in battle: It was mostly even; we didn't have an Infernape this time around (though Krookodile came close)

There's no comparison. Johto was still much, much worse than Unova. Unova didn't live up to many's expectations, but it was in no way worse than Johto.

Eh, I don't know: I liked the Johto Saga much more than the Unova Saga overall, but in terms of Ash's Pokemon, I'll agree.

Oh wow dude im sorry, i did not even notice how wrong i Said that, due to my intense amount of ego, but that was what i really meant.

No worries, bro: it's fine-- no problem.

 

[Lorde]

The filler. It's pretty much responsible for the other problems in Johto,

While that was an issue, I don't think it was as problematic as some people make it out to be. I mean I thought AG and DP had tons of filler too in between Gym battles and Contests. At least some of Johto's fillers were bearable (mostly those from the beginning of the saga; most of the AG and DP ones were just boring episodes that introduced new Pokemon and recycled storylines from the older sagas and nothing more imo. At least the writers still had creative, original ideas for some of the Johto fillers. :x

 

[CyberCubed]

I guess the main problem with Johto was the wasted potential. This was basically the last saga of the, "original series" and a sendoff to most of the early characters of the anime. You can technically say it was also the last saga Brock was relevant in given how little role he had in AG and DP.

The original cast deserved a better arc to go out on. Looking back on it now 10 years later, it seems like Johto really was the "end of the road" for Misty, Brock and Gary in major roles, aside from their brief cameos in the following arc.

And yes I'm including Brock in that too, because despite staying in the anime for 400 episodes more after that it barely felt like he was even there. So you might as well say Brock left the anime at the end of Johto too. lol.

 

[sandy ketchum]

You can technically s So you might as well say Brock left the anime at the end of Johto too. lol.

eventhough brock's role wasnt prominent in AG for me he didnt feel like a robot until DP

 

[CyberCubed]

eventhough brock's role wasnt prominent in AG for me he didnt feel like a robot until DP

I agree that I still liked Brock in Hoenn. He started to get stale during Battle Frontier and then got worse in DP.

 

[RickHoenn]

Eh, I don't know: I liked the Johto Saga much more than the Unova Saga overall, but in terms of Ash's Pokemon, I'll agree.

and Johto had better battles and the Johto gyms >>>>>>>> Unova gyms.

The Johto fillers >>>>>> ... >>> BW fillers. the DA! saga had the worst fillers in the pkmn anime's history imo.

I also feel more attached to the Johto pkmn like Bayleef, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Heracross, Phanpy and even Noctowl.

I think Unova would've worked with the old formula of 5 or 6 pkmn instead of so many being neglected in both personality and development. Palpitoad is like it never existed..

 

[PokemonNation2000]

and Johto had better battles and the Johto gyms >>>>>>>> Unova gyms.

The Johto fillers >>>>>> ... >>> BW fillers. the DA! saga had the worst fillers in the pkmn anime's history imo.

I also feel more attached to the Johto pkmn like Bayleef, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Heracross, Phanpy and even Noctowl.

I think Unova would've worked with the old formula of 5 or 6 pkmn instead of so many being neglected in both personality and development. Palpitoad is like it never existed..

I liked his Unova Pokemon, but I completely agree with everything you just said.

I agree that I still liked Brock in Hoenn. He started to get stale during Battle Frontier and then got worse in DP.

Pretty much exactly this: I could still tolerate Brock in Battle Frontier, even though he was getting stale, but Sinnoh was where he managed to hit his all-time low as a character (TRio also managed to hit a low point at the time, but...it would seem our current Team Rocket in the XY Anime have out-sucked them).

I have to say XY Team Rocket make DP Team Rocket seem amazing in comparison, though: their stupidity is unbelievable this arc of the anime.

 

[iraqmaster]

Looking back I really had no problems with the fillers themselves; just that there was too much of it. However seeing as how it was the first full saga I could let it slide.

Anyway the major problem I had with Johto ( Both the Anime and Games) was that it was too similar to Kanto in that:

1. Ash had almost the exact same lineup he had in Kanto ( The starters, Pikachu, the regional bird...) If anything, Misty should have gotten Totodile and Brock could have had Cyndaquil, leaving ash with Chikorita.

2. Team Rocket Trio was still making it their mission to capture pikachu. Why they just didn't make the 3 compotent instead of waiting nearly 3 regions later still confuses the heck out of me...

 

[PokemonNation2000]

2. Team Rocket Trio was still making it their mission to capture pikachu. Why they just didn't make the 3 compotent instead of waiting nearly 3 regions later still confuses the heck out of me...

I actually still found TR funny and likeable in Johto, could tolerate them in very early Hoenn, but from mid Hoenn through Sinnoh, they were too stupid and incompetent for my tastes (outside of the good Cacnea and Dustox release eps they had).

I actually liked the twist BW took on them, but too bad Da! and XY have returned Team Rocket Trio back to their usual, incompetent selves. That would still be okay if they were restored to their OS selves, but it only makes matters worse when you consider how stupid they have become in XY: even the DP TRio had more brains than these guys do.

Look no further than XY011: they literally blew up their own balloon. James ordered his Inkay to attack Jessie's Wobbuffet in such a dangerous place, with Jessie ordering her Wobbuffet to use Mirror Coat, ending up hitting the balloon itself. They don't even act like partners anymore, either...-_-.

 

[CyberCubed]

Another problem with Johto is the recurring characters they brought in got little screentime and weren't handled well. Casey, Sakura, etc. all seemed like they were going to be new rival characters but they just fizzled out and never amounted to anything.

Also when Richie came back during the Whirl Islands I thought we might see him in the Johto league too, but then he disappears. Also it was odd to see Todd and Duplica again, given they seemed like one-off filler characters. The writers really didn't do much of anything with all these characters in Johto.

 

[Lorde]

Looking back I really had no problems with the fillers themselves; just that there was too much of it.

That's how I feel. Like I said before, I actually enjoyed some of the fillers, but there were way too many of them and sometimes it seems like that's what people remember the most about the Johto saga; that it was full of fillers. Still, I think people should look back and rethink some of those episodes because I'm sure that people would think differently of them if they re-watched some and really evaluated them thoroughly.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

That's how I feel. Like I said before, I actually enjoyed some of the fillers, but there were way too many of them and sometimes it seems like that's what people remember the most about the Johto saga; that it was full of fillers. Still, I think people should look back and rethink some of those episodes because I'm sure that people would think differently of them if they re-watched some and really evaluated them thoroughly.

Agreed: for all the crappy ones we had, there were some truly spectacular ones as well, IMO. If you re-watch the episodes, they're honestly pretty entertaining and enjoyable. That being said, I can see why people would get bored with the premise of some of them, of course.