Where would you rank SM Ash as trainer after his recent feat?

[CMButch]

I'm sorry but no. Pikachu defeating tapu Koko is a better feat then Greninja battling and losing to champion mons lol. Yeah he's strong and held its own but it's not as amazing as Pikachu literally destroying a guardian of alola and it's z move with its own.

No, that(Tapu Koko feat) was visually the best feat and victory wise: yes, but strength wise: A-G feat > TK feat( I already said why).

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Well if you really think Ash greninja being able to land a hit on dianthas gardevoir before fainting and managing to damage Charizard before losing for the third time are better feats than Pikachu destroying tapu koko and it's Z move i seriously see no more reason to argue this further. The overestimation of greninja is too much bs here.

 

[CMButch]

Well if you really think Ash greninja being able to land a hit on dianthas gardevoir before fainting and managing to damage Charizard before losing for the third time are better feats than Pikachu destroying tapu koko and it's Z move i seriously see no more reason to argue this further. The overestimation of greninja is too much bs here.

I already explained it, why it's higher.
The underestimation of E4 and Champions is too much bs here.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I already explained it, why it's higher.
The underestimation of E4 and Champions is too much bs here.

That explanation makes no sense. I'll agree if greninja defeated those two mons that yes it's a better feat. But he didn't. He barely damaged dianthas gardevoir landing one attack and he was destroyed by Charizard, he landed a lot of hits and did damage but in the end Charizard still managed to stand. It's not a feat if its a fricking failure. On the other hand tapu koko protects alola, is a guardian pokemon, and it used it's Zmove and still got destroyed by Pikachu. That's more impressive. You are underestimating a guardian legendary.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Like seriously lol how the heck is greninja losing to those two mons a feat, let alone better than Pikachu destroying a legendary and it's Z move.

 

[CMButch]

That explanation makes no sense. I'll agree if greninja defeated those two mons that yes it's a better feat. But he didn't. He barely damaged dianthas gardevoir landing one attack and he was destroyed by Charizard, he landed a lot of hits and did damage but in the end Charizard still managed to stand. It's not a feat if its a fricking failure. On the other hand tapu koko protects alola, is a guardian pokemon, and it used it's Zmove and still got destroyed by Pikachu. That's more impressive. You are underestimating a guardian legendary.

1. Greninja " defeated" Base Gardevoir because Gardevoir had to Mega evolve. Defeating Base Gardevoir is as same as defeating Cynthia's Garchomp which neither TK and Pikachu even Z moves can do until proven otherwise.( Guzma's Golisopod which is like weak FB level cut down Z moves and Brock's Steelix could tank Z moves) Imagine what E4 and Champions could do..
2. Charizard defeated Mega Houndoom and A-G could go toe to toe with him which is s feat.
Winning or losing don't mean jack. According to that logic: If Krillin beats Base Gohan and SSJ3 Goku loses to Ultimate Gohan, Krillin's feat is stronger because Krillin won, but Goku lost. Lmao makes no sense.
3. So, what if he protects Alola? Legendaries Pokemon don't mean jack. Do you watch Pokemon? Charizard HAS beaten wild Articuno so based on that logic that's better feat than Greninja "beating" base Gardevoir by Champion? I didn't know beating low to mid level WILD Legendary Pokemon is better than TRAINED CHAMPION level Pokemon in this case Base level. Lmao. ( hell even beating Malva's Mega Houndoom is better than beating Tobias' Darkrai( trained one) because E4 and Champions are super strong) and BTW yes Darkrai from Tobias > Tapu Koko who is wild. BTW, this(anime) is same as real life, can you as untrained individual beat Mike Tyson as trained guy ( in prime)? No... Unless you're like a titan or has magical powers( like Arceus, Dialga etc).

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

1. Greninja " defeated" Base Gardevoir because Gardevoir had to Mega evolve. Defeating Base Gardevoir is as same as defeating Cynthia's Garchomp which neither TK and Pikachu even Z moves can't do until proven otherwise.( Guzma's Golisopod which is like weak FB level cut down Z moves and Brock's Steelix could tank Z moves) Imagine what E4 and Champions could do..
2. Charizard defeated Mega Houndoom and A-G could go toe to tow with him which is s feat.
Winning or losing don't mean jack. According to that logic: If Krillin beats Base Gohan and SSJ3 Goku loses to Ultimate Gohan, Krillin's feat is stronger because Krillin won, but Goku lost. Lmao makes no sense.
3. So, what if he protects Alola? Legendaries Pokemon don't mean jack. Do you watch Pokemon? Charizard HAS beaten wild Articuno so based on that logic that's better feat than Greninja "beating" base Gardevoir by Champion? I didn't know beating WILD Legendary Pokemon is better than TRAINED CHAMPION level Pokemon in this case Base level. Lmao. ( hell even beating Malva's Mega Houndoom is better than beating Tobias' Darkrai( trained one) because E4 and Champions are super strong) and BTW yes Darkrai from Tobias > Tapu Koko who is wild. BTW, this(anime) is same as real life, can you as untrained individual beat Mike Tyson as trained guy ( in prime)? No... Unless you're like a titan or has magical powers( like Arceus, Dialga etc).

Okay your ASSUMPTION that Ash defeated basic form gardevoir is funny. When did it get knocked out? Diantha mega evolved it to show her full power to an unknown form but how does that equate to greninja defeating base form gardevoir. That makes no sense whatsoever and is completely bs. And greninja did go toe in toe with Charizard for a while before being defeated. You're trying to imply it is equal to Charizard in power when it is so not.
Tapu koko being legendary does mean something sorry to break it to you. It's literally a guardian pokemon. It protects alola. It is a big deal to defeat it. And mega houndoom being defeated is more of a feat than darkrai ? LMAO. For all we know malva could be the weakest elite 4 we know. This is so assumed lol.
Basically this is all one giant assumption based on things that don't hold at all to fit your scenario and agenda of op greninja. It isn't. Greninja isn't more OP than Pikachu, Pikachu destroying tapu koko is more than greninja fighting other mons and losing. C'mon now lol

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Tapu koko cannot be an untrained piece of crap battler when it is literally a Guardian Pokemon, protector. What the hell man

 

[CMButch]

Okay your ASSUMPTION that Ash defeated basic form gardevoir is funny. When did it get knocked out? Diantha mega evolved it to show her full power to an unknown form but how does that equate to greninja defeating base form gardevoir.

Yes it does, why did she have to Mega evolve it then? She Mega evolved it because A-G was obviously having upper-hand in it. She could've easily showed full power in Base Form, but she had to Mega Evolve it. Fact is in front of your eyes: A-G > Base Gardevoir also that's proven when Greninja hit MG( yes Mega) with Shuriken and knocked it off.


3:06. Also it overpowered MG's Shadow Ball. Also, based on statement:In Championing a Research Battle!, Gardevoir battled Ash's Greninja. Although Gardevoir initially held the upper hand, it eventually had to Mega Evolve to keep up with Greninja's unique transformation.
So yeah, it had to Mega evolve.

That makes no sense whatsoever and is completely bs. And greninja did go toe in toe with Charizard for a while before being defeated. You're trying to imply it is equal to Charizard in power when it is so not.
Tapu koko being legendary does mean something sorry to break it to you. It's literally a guardian pokemon. It protects alola. It is a big deal to defeat it. And mega houndoom being defeated is more of a feat than darkrai ? LMAO. For all we know malva could be the weakest elite 4 we know. This is so assumed lol.
Basically this is all one giant assumption based on things that don't hold at all to fit your scenario and agenda of op greninja. It isn't. Greninja isn't more OP than Pikachu, Pikachu destroying tapu koko is more than greninja fighting other mons and losing. C'mon now lol

It's not BS, I proved it. So? He still went toe to toe. It's not equal to Charizard but it still went toe to toe, TK and Pikachu would've lost to Charizard in mere minutes. It's not Big deal to defeat wild TK, same as obviously it's not big deal to defeat wild Articuno, why is TK better than Articuno because it's guardian despite Articuno: One of the legendary bird Pokémon, it chills moisture in the atmosphere to create snow while flying. TK is a guardian of Alola, lmao and Articuno can create a snow in entire region and guess what other regions are bigger than Alola. So how is TK better than Articuno again? Both are wild are both would be around equal. Yes, with Z move obviously TK would win, but without they'd be equal at best.
Yes, it's a more of a feat. Lmao. Malva's is the weakest E4 in Kalos yes, but still way way stronger than Darkrai. Wrong, Greninja > Pikachu. Maybe if Pikachu hits Greninja with 10MV it will win yes, but same how Golisopod could cut Z moves so would Greninja with its shuriken big one and especially Orange Shuriken.
I never said it's untrained crap. Lmao.I said just :it's untrained...

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

You didn't prove anything, you're just using your assumptions again. You're quoting a summary some sites post to back up your fact? She mega evolved it coz first of all it looks more cool for the anime to have mega vs Ash greninja battle second of all i think its natural to mega evolve with a strong opponent but ir doesn't mean it's stronger than the base opponent. So yeah while yeah it is a good testament to greninja power, it isn't a feat more better than tapu koko having its z move destroyed. Also "Malva is weakest in kalos but better than darkrai" BASED ON WHAT? Malva hasn't shown anything indicating she's very strong at all. Stop making assumptions presenting them as facts and then saying you proved it. And once again based on lore tapu koko holds more value than articuno. It's a guardian protector it cannot be weak at all. And yeah articuno can cover regions with snow. What's the point? This isn't proof , this is you presenting your assumptions as fact.

 

[CMButch]

You didn't prove anything, you're just using your assumptions again. You're quoting a summary some sites post to back up your fact? She mega evolved it coz first of all it looks more cool for the anime to have mega vs Ash greninja battle second of all i think its natural to mega evolve with a strong opponent but ir doesn't mean it's stronger than the base opponent. So yeah while yeah it is a good testament to greninja power, it isn't a feat more better than tapu koko having its z move destroyed. Also "Malva is weakest in kalos but better than darkrai" BASED ON WHAT? Malva hasn't shown anything indicating she's very strong at all. Stop making assumptions presenting them as facts and then saying you proved it. And once again based on lore tapu koko holds more value than articuno. It's a guardian protector it cannot be weak at all. And yeah articuno can cover regions with snow. What's the point? This isn't proof , this is you presenting your assumptions as fact.

No. Lol I already gave proof why she Mega'd it, you have several feats in front of you. Since you're ignoring it,it's not my fault.
"Malva hasn't shows anythign indicating she's very strong at all."
She's literally E4 member which is Top 5 strongest people in Kalos. HHAHAHAHAHHA. You're joking right? And did Darkrai beat E4 member? No, I mean we don't know, but we can't say Tobias beat E4 since IT WAS NEVER SHOWN and guess who is the wekaest E4 there; Aaron and Malva's Houndoom can Mega; which means by this: Mega Houndoom >> Aaron's ace( Base) > Darkrai. BTW , current Aaron can Mega like Steven, Misty, Brock etc and he's obviously strong now.
Holding a value don't mean jack. Service dogs serve higher value than lion( dogs find drugs, save people, lions eat, sleep) and still lions would beat the dog. I never said TK is weak, but it's weaker than trained Legendary and E4 and Champion Pokemon( and level on them), and OP Legs/Myths like Mewtwo, Arceus that's a fact. And some high level of FB would beat TK like Infernape, Sceptile( Ash's).
"This isn't proof"
-literally showed him dex entry for Articuno xD.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Your proof as to why she mega'd it is summaries someone else wrote you realise that right? That is not proof. Yes you stated articuno's dex entry and yet how does that prove its more valuable than a freaking protector of alola?
And just because she's an elite four doesn't mean jack. She still can be the weakest elite four of all time. And by Aaron I'm guessing ur talking about sinnoh elite four member. I don't understand what you mean in that para. And yeah Tobias may have chosen not to challenge the E4 who knows. Doesn't prove that malva is stronger than him. And the Elite four are not necessarily the top 5. For example, lysandre was clearly stronger than malva considering it took malva Ash Alain together to beat his two Pokemon. 8 Pokemon vs two lol.

 

[CMButch]

Your proof as to why she mega'd it is summaries someone else wrote you realise that right? That is not proof. Yes you stated articuno's dex entry and yet how does that prove its more valuable than a freaking protector of alola?
And just because she's an elite four doesn't mean jack. She still can be the weakest elite four of all time. And by Aaron I'm guessing ur talking about sinnoh elite four member. I don't understand what you mean in that para. And yeah Tobias may have chosen not to challenge the E4 who knows. Doesn't prove that malva is stronger than him. And the Elite four are not necessarily the top 5. For example, lysandre was clearly stronger than malva considering it took malva Ash Alain together to beat his two Pokemon. 8 Pokemon vs two lol.

Proof is in the episodes...
I already said about values, but if you wanna go there: making a snow can be good aka life saving. Like if it's too hot and people and Pokemon can "die" because of how hot it is, Articuno can make it snow and cool them off. Which is basically life-saving. Every Legendary/Mythical have purpose in PW, that's their point.

And just because she's an elite four doesn't mean jack. She still can be the weakest elite four of all time. And by Aaron I'm guessing ur talking about sinnoh elite four member. I don't understand what you mean in that para. And yeah Tobias may have chosen not to challenge the E4 who knows. Doesn't prove that malva is stronger than him. And the Elite four are not necessarily the top 5. For example, lysandre was clearly stronger than malva considering it took malva Ash Alain together to beat his two Pokemon. 8 Pokemon vs two lol.

Yes, it does... lol, she's Top 5 battlers in Kalos. No, she's on same level as other weak E4 in other regions.But, even if she's weakest, she's still E4 which means strongest aka in Top 5 in Kalos or like Top 20 in the world( so far).. Yes I am talking about Aaron from E4. Yes it does, as I already said you can't say Dakrai > E4 or = E4 just because we don't know, but we can say the opposite because as I said "THEY'RE E4 AKA STRONGEST". Yes, it's in title that's the point.
Yes they are: 1. You're obviously forgetting that Malva has 6 Pokemon and not one and all 6 Pokemon are E4 level. Those 5 are not as strong as Mega Houndoom but around Base Houndoom level, so yes Mega Gyarados from Lysandre would fall to Malva's E4 level Pokemon. 2. IIRC Lysandre used gathered Mega into his Gyarados thus being that strong. Also, not to mention, Pyroar didn't do jack, it got defeated easily. Gyarados didn't battle them all at once, he was battling them one on one and he battled weaker mons. Another thing: Malva just used one attack and remaining attacks were from Pika/Greninja and MCX. Gyarados didn't do jack to MH since he was fighting those 3 and MCX and Greninja didn't do much except when they hit it in the end and Pikachu used Thudnerbolt. I mean Gyarados used DT and hit them and Talonflame fainted while A-G and MCX just got up. And mostly MCX and A-G were just standing around. Lmao.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

So you confirmed that we can't say whether Tobias darkrai is stronger yet you claim it is. And like I said it doesn't confirm she's top 5. Other strong trainers simply could have not partaken in the league. And if she's the weakest elite four it makes sense why Alain could beat her.

 

[CMButch]

I said we do not know who would win between Darkai and E4 Base Houndoom that is why we say Base H > Darkai.Because D did not show any feats and H feats come from Malva being E4.Again we do not know that other trainers would beat her.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

You literally said we don't know who will win between malvas and Tobias Pokemon followed by houndoom > darkrai contradictory much. Darkrai didn't show any feats? It defeated every gym leader by itself everyone from the lily of the valley conference except Ash with it. Whereas M houndoom feat comes from losing to a mon who had already battled 9 trainers before it......yet it suddenly has more feats than darkrai because it is a member of a person who lost to Alain, is clearly weaker than lysandre and might not be that strong despite being an E4 member. Yeah your definition of feats really astonishes me.

 

[CMButch]

You literally said we don't know who will win between malvas and Tobias Pokemon followed by houndoom > darkrai contradictory much.

#Facepalm1. I already explained this, I am not going back to this point.

didn't show any feats? It defeated every gym leader by itself everyone from the lily of the valley conference except Ash with it.

And Malva's Houndoom > Wulfric who gave A-G hard time despite A-G and Ash not being full of himself. Dude, just stop writing. Your fanboyism is showing. Somehow by your logic ,Pokemon that defeated gym level Pokemon and gym + level making him at least on mid-high FB level can beat literal E4 level Pokemon. Are you one of those kids that think FB are like E4 level? Lol, Dude even Brandon's Regis are not on E4 level and Brandon's Regirock and Registeel would beat Darkrai and guess what: Flint's Infernape > Brandon's Regirock and Malva's Mega Houndoom > Flint's Infernape. Only way Flint's Pokemon > Mega Houndoom if Flint has Mega Fire type which he has. Learn that everyone has Mega now, so EVERYONE GOT STRONGER, Malva's MH is obviously stronger than most Base E4 Pokemon.Tobias obviously has Mega Latios now( let's say), so M-Latios > Darkrai.You're obviously underestimating Mega and overestimating Legendary Pokemon. I can bet 100000 dollars that if this wasn't Legendary( Darkrai) but it was regular Pokemon, you wouldn't be saying this despite that regular Pokemon per say Butterfree doing same feat as Darkrai. You have weird view that "Oh Legendary Pokemon is super strong( or Legendary Pokemon that MEANS it's super strong) it would beat E4 and Champion because it's Legendary". Lol no. Feats > that view.

Whereas M houndoom feat comes from losing to a mon who had already battled 9 trainers before it......yet it suddenly has more feats than darkrai because it is a member of a person who lost to Alain, is clearly weaker than lysandre and might not be that strong despite being an E4 member. Yeah your definition of feats really astonishes me.

Says MH feat losing to MCX is bad but MCX is literally on E4 level+.And in Steven vs Alain battle ,Steve had to mega evolve. So now you're gonna say that Steven's Base Metagross would lose to Darkrai? HAHAHHA. Facepalm#2 and BTW feat is that MH > Wulfric. Since Wulfric is gym leader and Malva's E4.Obviously, Wulfric is super strong aka on Brandon level with Avalugg and Mega Abomasnow, since Avalugg beat not to good A-G( because Ash and he went through crisis) and MA could hold out against A-G. And Mega Houndoom > Avalugg and MA.Logic.
"Clearly weaker than Lysandre". I obviously stated about Lysandre thing and you ignore it and go with your politics. Lmao. Facepalm3
"She's not E4 strong strong but she's E4" - SerGolden
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. So, they are giving E4 titles out of hat? "WINNER IS MALVA, I JUST RANDOMLY CHOSE YOUR NAME AND YOU'RE E4 NOW. HAHAHHAHAHA That's your logic, fam.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Wtf? I said she may be an elite four but not as strong as the other elite fours. We don't know her strength to be able to judge her. U ****ing judge her based on her title but in all her appearances she either lost or had to take on a trainer with two others.
Darkrai and her houndoom cannot be compared coz the circumstances are totally different. Being the Elite four means yes you're powerful but doesn't necessarily mean ur the top 5. Lysandre was clearly more powerful than malva. Tobias may not have chosen to take on the E4 for all we know. You can't compare those two. Your basis of comparing them is just a big giant assumption. It's kinda funny you're the person who's saying my fanboyism is showing while also basing on assumptions that houndoom is better than darkrai and greninjas losses are better feats than Pikachu destroying tapu koko. I'm done arguing. You're just repeating your assumptions, presenting them as facts and saying you proved it and showed it. You didn't prove ****. It's just one assumption in ur debate which u use to argue claiming it as fact. Rinse and repeat. I'm not bothering with it anymore I've already explained myself and clearly it's not gonna stop u from making the assumptions and saying they are facts. You clearly have a bias and yet accuse me of fanboyism. It's funny

 

[mehmeh1]

The issue with Koko is that he's pretty much featless (pushing away featless Necrozma and beating a weakened Naganadel being his only feats, unless you count his AU self paralyzing Guzzlord), so we have to go by narrative implications, which tell us that he is a godlike, almost unbeatable being (though not box legend tier) like the other Tapus that for the most part are only playing around or testing their opponents. Pika not only defeated Tapu Koko, but took only a single hit while doing so (the match was still close due to the z moves though). However, we shouldn't underestimate the vs Diantha and Alain feats, whose narrative implications have already been stated). I'll still say that Peaka vs Koko is the biggest feat in general, but the other two aren't far behind.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I never greninja's feats sucked or anything. Im just saying koko vs Pikachu is a better feat. And tapu koko doesn't need to show feats to show he's powerful, he's a legendary Pokemon. Pushing away necrozma is a big deal, necrozma is the strongest alola legendary, it's a very big deal. And yeah i think we can count his feat of pushing a guzzlord coz even if it's AU coz they are of the same strength probably. We have no reason to underestimate tapu koko strength as a guardian