Where's the originality?

[Jonah the Slaking]

Of that list, all I have is Staraptor. But I have noticed that many teams use those Pokemon, and maybe I'm at fault for having Staraptor and wanting Salamence, but I change things up. Torterra with Rock Polish for the win!

 

[Dark Side4]

When did I say that being original and winning/being good were mutually exclusive? If no one was original then playing competitive - of any kind - would severely decrease the skill of the players.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't call people out for using teams that WORK. If you were complaining about them just using those sorts of teams and just playing badly (which would suggest that they really are just slapping together a team and thinking they are good just for that) then I could understand you, but it seems that you are just complaining about people using good teams.

And, to be honest, if you think that using OU Pokemon take no effort to use, then you are incredibly mistaken. A good player with UUs like Blaziken/Blastoise/Exeggcutor would OWN a terrible OU player who thinks that you should only ever use OU Pokes in OU.

That kind of is what I'm saying, though. People always use the same teams with no experimentation and they still lose. It's just because they have simple moves that CAN do a lot of damage, like close combat or brave bird, and they just spam it like there's no tomorrow, same with all the legends. The funny thing is that these teams aren't the teams that just sweep everyone because of how good they are, and that's why I call people who use those teams lazy. People are just using the same pokemon. Honestly, maybe it's not because they are just really good or easy to use, maybe people just like using the same pokemon over and over again. I don't have an answer for it, I'm just asking why people keep using the same pokemon in their battles.

 

[Dark Side4]

Okay, it's not being too lazy to win, it's that sometimes someone's favorite pokemon is just bad. I love Golurk. I love him to death. But I tried using him in competitive battles in the early days of Gen. V, and he got destroyed. Every time. I gave him what I figured were the best EVs to take advantage of his stats, great moves, and you know what? He still lost. So I'm not going to use him competitively ever again. Oh, I forget, you don't play Gen. V. Fine, I'll go to Gen. IV for you: Crobat. It was (and still is) my favorite pokemon. However, in the days of Gen. IV, he would get destroyed quite easily by most other leads and stuff. However, in Gen. V, he destroys as my opener. Basically, the answer to your problem is Gen. V. Originality is much easier and more profitable in Gen. V. Your question is outdated in its execution.

Oh, and it still takes skill to use OU pokemon. You can make a team using the pokemon you mentioned and still lose.

Crobat isn't bad in 4th gen, you just have to train him right. I have a friend who uses two crobats on his team, both fully ev trained in speed and attack, and they can be quite a powerful pair. Crobats can be really fast, and give them something like brave bird and they become powerful too. I don't really know what a go lurk is, but crobat is far from terrible in 4th gen in my opinion.

 

[Dark Side4]

Fighting types are not "unoriginal" just because they can sweep your entire mono dark team...

Unoriginal to me is Politoed, Gliscor and Scizor. If someone is using an Infernape or Lucario, all power to them.

Of that list there are two fighting types lmao. I didn't even specifically mention the fighting type in the original post, i just said infernape and Lucario, what are you reading?

Also, unoriginal just means the pokemon that you see in almost everyone's teams, like the above mentioned pokemon. Politoed is rarely seen on Pokemon Battle Revolution, and the same goes for gliscor, but since you probably didn't read the original post entirely you will argue something like you see politoed all the time in UU battles, so whatever floats your boat man.

 

[Rey Alejandro]

....You realize that you're the only person still stuck in the 4th gen, right? Everyone commenting is talking about the Black and White metagame.

 

[SasakiThePikachu]

Crobat isn't bad in 4th gen, you just have to train him right. I have a friend who uses two crobats on his team, both fully ev trained in speed and attack, and they can be quite a powerful pair. Crobats can be really fast, and give them something like brave bird and they become powerful too. I don't really know what a go lurk is, but crobat is far from terrible in 4th gen in my opinion.

Whaaa??

Ghost/ground type? Based on a mecha and so can (controversially, it seems) learn fly? Hides out in DragonSpiral Tower?

Any bells ringing?

 

[Sietse23]

OU: in that tier there are good pokes who much trainers use so for originalilty use UU/NU or RU

 

[MugoUrth]

You CAN use UU/RU/whatever in OU. Where did you get that idea from?

From the people who say "Good trainers CAN use UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better."" IMO, only the worst trainers "know better," I think the best trainers use the Pokemon they like regardless of tiers, and can kick butt with them anyway.

Basically, the answer to your problem is Gen. V. Originality is much easier and more profitable in Gen. V. Your question is outdated in its execution.

I'd have to disagree with you there, as the problem with overused Pokes is still present in the Metagame.

 

[girazard]

From the people who say "Good trainers CAN use UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better."" IMO, only the worst trainers "know better," I think the best trainers use the Pokemon they like regardless of tiers, and can kick butt with them anyway.

You are referring to that argument in the Smogon thread in Competitive Discussion, right? The whole "UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better" argument is not based around the idea that 'OU, ergo stronger'. It's about choosing the best possible Pokemon for your team. You don't restrict yourself to using ONLY OU, you use the Pokemon that will make your team most effective. If I need a rain-abuser for my team and it would be disadvantageous to use Toxicroak/Dragonite/whatever (because of team synergy) that doesn't mean I can't use Tornadus if it does the job I want it to do best of the Pokemon I can use.

However, choosing teams this way usually end up being OU Pokemon, because they are, more often than not, the best Pokemon to use. Pokemon are defined as OU not because they have been specifically defined as being better than the others in UU/RU, but because people will use the Pokemon that are best to use on their team, and will therefore be used in the OU meta.

Winning by using a worse Pokemon when you have some better options does not make you a good player. It makes your opponent, who lost to a sub-par team that was not as good as it could be, a bad player. Take Bibarel. You have no real reason to use him in OU (or any other metagame, TBH) when you have better options. As a Baton Pass recipient, it's outclassed. Moody is banned. Unaware is done better than any other user (and you really don't need boosts to kill Bibarel and render it worthless as an anti-booster anyway). There's no real reason you should use Bibarel over any other Pokemon on your serious competitive team. Winning with him does NOT make you a good player. Building the best team you can is also indicative of skill.

I'd have to disagree with you there, as the problem with overused Pokes is still present in the Metagame.

...I'd say that 5th gen OU is pretty diverse right now.

That kind of is what I'm saying, though. People always use the same teams with no experimentation and they still lose. It's just because they have simple moves that CAN do a lot of damage, like close combat or brave bird, and they just spam it like there's no tomorrow, same with all the legends. The funny thing is that these teams aren't the teams that just sweep everyone because of how good they are, and that's why I call people who use those teams lazy. People are just using the same pokemon. Honestly, maybe it's not because they are just really good or easy to use, maybe people just like using the same pokemon over and over again. I don't have an answer for it, I'm just asking why people keep using the same pokemon in their battles.

Using a team full of 'original' Pokemon and losing somehow makes you better than someone who loses using Pokemon that are 'overpowered'?

 

[Dark Side4]

You are referring to that argument in the Smogon thread in Competitive Discussion, right? The whole "UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better" argument is not based around the idea that 'OU, ergo stronger'. It's about choosing the best possible Pokemon for your team. You don't restrict yourself to using ONLY OU, you use the Pokemon that will make your team most effective. If I need a rain-abuser for my team and it would be disadvantageous to use Toxicroak/Dragonite/whatever (because of team synergy) that doesn't mean I can't use Tornadus if it does the job I want it to do best of the Pokemon I can use.

However, choosing teams this way usually end up being OU Pokemon, because they are, more often than not, the best Pokemon to use. Pokemon are defined as OU not because they have been specifically defined as being better than the others in UU/RU, but because people will use the Pokemon that are best to use on their team, and will therefore be used in the OU meta.

Winning by using a worse Pokemon when you have some better options does not make you a good player. It makes your opponent, who lost to a sub-par team that was not as good as it could be, a bad player. Take Bibarel. You have no real reason to use him in OU (or any other metagame, TBH) when you have better options. As a Baton Pass recipient, it's outclassed. Moody is banned. Unaware is done better than any other user (and you really don't need boosts to kill Bibarel and render it worthless as an anti-booster anyway). There's no real reason you should use Bibarel over any other Pokemon on your serious competitive team. Winning with him does NOT make you a good player. Building the best team you can is also indicative of skill.



...I'd say that 5th gen OU is pretty diverse right now.



Using a team full of 'original' Pokemon and losing somehow makes you better than someone who loses using Pokemon that are 'overpowered'?

No, but I think winning with a team full of original pokemon makes you a better player because you don't rely on the normal OU's that everyone else uses.

It doesn't matter what team you LOSE with, if you lose then your just not as good, and even the people with the OU teams can agree to that. I'm talking about actually winning with teams full of pokemon that you ACTUALLY like. Isn't that what pokemon is about, finding the Pokemon you love and training them to be the best possible, do people seriously only care about winning against other people, that they are just forced to use the ones that are "overpowered."

And yeah, so many people are like, "well I actually like winning, so I use them" which I just think is sad, because apparently people now are so fully invested in winning that they have to use these kinds of teams. I guess I'm just playing a different game from the rest of you, where the enjoyment of using pokemon I actually like is greater than the enjoyment I receive from using unoriginal and boring teams full of pokemon I don't like. And its not like I'm constantly losing with cruddy Pokemon that I like. I pick the pokemon I like, and then I learn how to use them effectively, and it actually works out really well, and so the argument that people should just use the OU pokemon because they are the best is incorrect. If you have the skills to make a team good, then you can basically put any pokemon you want on it, and I choose to put my favorites on my team.

But to each his own, I guess it's pointless to try to explain this concept to those who only care about winning...

 

[pseudoman]

My team consists of Umbreon, weavile, absol, houndoom, sharpedo, and honchkrow, none of which are seen too much on wifi or Pokemon Battle Revolution, so it's not like I'm being such a hypocrite with the same team. But the game is no fun fighting the same team over and over again, just with slightly different movesets or stats.

I'm just wondering, where is the originality????

Is your teams name dark side?

I tend to mix up my teams to adjust to trends that i see on wifi. Try looking at most of these pokemon's egg moves, you get some really cool things. A brief list of pokemon i ran:

Fake out Blastoise
Belly Drum azumarill(Ohko'd giratina in the rain with waterfall, mind you)
Eruption heatran from a close friend
Countercoat swampert(took the idea from another guy i ran into)
Curse flareon and vaporeon

But you have to admit, some of the overused strategies can be altered to do some pretty fun stuff. For example, lets say the opponent leads with Metagross and gengar. Youve all seen this before, havent you. You expect metagross to explode or use earthquake while gengar uses hypnosis or shadow ball.

Instead, gengar could swagger metagross, who heals with a persim or lum berry while metagross uses agility. That way metagross becomes super powered and defeats a lot more pokemon.

But this is just 4th gen.

If you fully beleive you can win a battle by using a pokemon or strategy out of the norm, go ahead. Noone is going to stop you but you. Originality is preferred in most cases as playing the same team over and over is pretty boring. But at that point its pretty much prediction and luck if those are the only people you are playing. Im not going to tell you you suck because your plans didnt work, even if they arfe exceedingly cheap.

TL;DR, use whatever.

 

[Simipour]

Of that list there are two fighting types lmao. I didn't even specifically mention the fighting type in the original post, i just said infernape and Lucario, what are you reading?

Also, unoriginal just means the pokemon that you see in almost everyone's teams, like the above mentioned pokemon. Politoed is rarely seen on Pokemon Battle Revolution, and the same goes for gliscor, but since you probably didn't read the original post entirely you will argue something like you see politoed all the time in UU battles, so whatever floats your boat man.

I was reading the list that said Infernape and lucario on it, and the caption that said infernape is probably the most overused. Why would you even ask that -_-. If that's the case it is bad for you, but for anyone with a varied team it's not that bad a thing to have 2 pokemon easily revenge killed. You know, instead of a giratina or something .

I guess you can drop politoed for PBR, but scizor and gliscor still wreck stuff in gen 4 too. Once again lucky you if you haven't seen many gliscors/scizors. I have played a lot of PBR, and if you opponent isn't 6 uber legendaries than you have no right to be complaining about originality. My main poke the entire time was a specs jolteon, which performed suprisingly well given the adverse circumstances. There is no UU or tiers in PBR, and whats this "whatever floats my boat" business. No need to be a smartass lol.

Anyways lots of people care more about winning than originality(hacked pokemon, ubers ect), so it is nice you are trying something different. However i would take those pokes you listed over Giratina or Lugia anyday.

 

[Rey Alejandro]

Okay, listen, I want to to download PO if you haven't already and play Gen. V on that. Then you can stop complaining about this pointlessness and "have fun" which is what I think you want to do. You're talking to a crowd of people who are playing Gen. V right now.

 

[Paddy185]

I can fully understand the unoriginality with some Pokemon, in my PO sandstorm team I often RQ to Landorus 85% of the time, and out of the people I face they often (90%) of the time have a Ferrothorn, Politoed, Tyranitar or Ninetales (tbh I only see 9Tales much less than any of the others).

And I use the Pokemon I want to ingame. Such as Lopunny, Flareon, Stunfisk and Swoobat.

 

[Dark Side4]

Yeah it kinda sucks that everyone is on 5th gen, but I guess I'm still kind of stuck in the past. But I'm not the only one lol, tons of people still play PBR, so at least I can still fight other people. But anywayI guess you're all right, save from teams of all users I guess I really shouldn't complain about the common teams because they can still be mixed up in they're own original ways. I just fought a special attack metagross and a physical gengar. Granted they were absolutely horrible and were beaten relatively easily, but I was thoroughly impressed with the originality and I see people can still mix it up, even with those overused teams.

But seriously, I think we can all agree a physical gengar is a terrible idea....

 

[Dark Side4]

Is your teams name dark side?

I tend to mix up my teams to adjust to trends that i see on wifi. Try looking at most of these pokemon's egg moves, you get some really cool things. A brief list of pokemon i ran:

Fake out Blastoise
Belly Drum azumarill(Ohko'd giratina in the rain with waterfall, mind you)
Eruption heatran from a close friend
Countercoat swampert(took the idea from another guy i ran into)
Curse flareon and vaporeon

But you have to admit, some of the overused strategies can be altered to do some pretty fun stuff. For example, lets say the opponent leads with Metagross and gengar. Youve all seen this before, havent you. You expect metagross to explode or use earthquake while gengar uses hypnosis or shadow ball.

Instead, gengar could swagger metagross, who heals with a persim or lum berry while metagross uses agility. That way metagross becomes super powered and defeats a lot more pokemon.

But this is just 4th gen.

If you fully beleive you can win a battle by using a pokemon or strategy out of the norm, go ahead. Noone is going to stop you but you. Originality is preferred in most cases as playing the same team over and over is pretty boring. But at that point its pretty much prediction and luck if those are the only people you are playing. Im not going to tell you you suck because your plans didnt work, even if they arfe exceedingly cheap.

TL;DR, use whatever.

And yes my team's name on Pokemon Battle Revolution is Dark Side, why, have you fought me recently?

I do tend to use the same dark team, but occasionally I will switch out some pokemon for other dark types, like absol, honchkrow, darkrai, or sableye.

 

[pseudoman]

And yes my team's name on Pokemon Battle Revolution is Dark Side, why, have you fought me recently?

I do tend to use the same dark team, but occasionally I will switch out some pokemon for other dark types, like absol, honchkrow, darkrai, or sableye.

Ive ran into you a few times actually, i think the last time i fought you i had either an ubers team or one of my standard teams( if im correct i used role play houndoom in a battle of ours). This is a long while ago, so im not sure exactly.

 

[MugoUrth]

You are referring to that argument in the Smogon thread in Competitive Discussion, right? The whole "UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better" argument is not based around the idea that 'OU, ergo stronger'. It's about choosing the best possible Pokemon for your team. You don't restrict yourself to using ONLY OU, you use the Pokemon that will make your team most effective. If I need a rain-abuser for my team and it would be disadvantageous to use Toxicroak/Dragonite/whatever (because of team synergy) that doesn't mean I can't use Tornadus if it does the job I want it to do best of the Pokemon I can use.

However, choosing teams this way usually end up being OU Pokemon, because they are, more often than not, the best Pokemon to use. Pokemon are defined as OU not because they have been specifically defined as being better than the others in UU/RU, but because people will use the Pokemon that are best to use on their team, and will therefore be used in the OU meta.

Winning by using a worse Pokemon when you have some better options does not make you a good player. It makes your opponent, who lost to a sub-par team that was not as good as it could be, a bad player. Take Bibarel. You have no real reason to use him in OU (or any other metagame, TBH) when you have better options. As a Baton Pass recipient, it's outclassed. Moody is banned. Unaware is done better than any other user (and you really don't need boosts to kill Bibarel and render it worthless as an anti-booster anyway). There's no real reason you should use Bibarel over any other Pokemon on your serious competitive team. Winning with him does NOT make you a good player. Building the best team you can is also indicative of skill.



...I'd say that 5th gen OU is pretty diverse right now.



Using a team full of 'original' Pokemon and losing somehow makes you better than someone who loses using Pokemon that are 'overpowered'?

I keep telling you, no matter how good the monsters in OU are, it's still limiting yourself. Because believe it or not, there aren't many monsters in OU, and even fewer that I'd even be caught dead using on my team. Which is why I hate OU, because it's dominated mostly by monsters I do not like.

And I keep telling you, your opinion that only sucky trainers use Pokemon below OU, even if they keep winning, is complete rubbish. No matter how good at Pokemon you are, if you ONLY use OU Pokemon, then you are NOT a good Pokemon battler. Only those who can AND DO, because the last thing I mean is "Can, but know better," use lower tiered Pokemon to the same success are true professionals. Like I said, you can beat me with whipping rods and cattle prods till I agree to that Bull-plop.

No, but I think winning with a team full of original pokemon makes you a better player because you don't rely on the normal OU's that everyone else uses.

It doesn't matter what team you LOSE with, if you lose then your just not as good, and even the people with the OU teams can agree to that. I'm talking about actually winning with teams full of pokemon that you ACTUALLY like. Isn't that what pokemon is about, finding the Pokemon you love and training them to be the best possible, do people seriously only care about winning against other people, that they are just forced to use the ones that are "overpowered."

And yeah, so many people are like, "well I actually like winning, so I use them" which I just think is sad, because apparently people now are so fully invested in winning that they have to use these kinds of teams. I guess I'm just playing a different game from the rest of you, where the enjoyment of using pokemon I actually like is greater than the enjoyment I receive from using unoriginal and boring teams full of pokemon I don't like. And its not like I'm constantly losing with cruddy Pokemon that I like. I pick the pokemon I like, and then I learn how to use them effectively, and it actually works out really well, and so the argument that people should just use the OU pokemon because they are the best is incorrect. If you have the skills to make a team good, then you can basically put any pokemon you want on it, and I choose to put my favorites on my team.

But to each his own, I guess it's pointless to try to explain this concept to those who only care about winning...

What's actually won in online metagame? Do you win items? Money? Rare Pokemon? Then why is winning so important if all you win is a notch to your record? If there's nothing to be gained from winning, then I see no point in using Pokemon you hate just to win instead of using Pokemon you like just to have fun. Winning isn't everything.

In other words, yes I'd have to side with Dark Side on this one.

 

[redcharzard]

I only play through the 4th generation on wifi and Pokemon Battle Revolution, and from the past couple months I have noticed a complete lack of any originality in the teams that I have fought.

Why must everyone use the same Pokemon on their teams? I'm talking about such pokemon as:

Infernape (probably the most overused)
Gyarados
Metagross
Garchomp
Gengar
Salamence
Lucario
Staraptor

I'm sure over 75% of you had one or more of these on your 4th gen teams. Was it because you really liked them, or because they are like demi-gods and win too easily.

Does EVERYONE seriously like all the same pokemon, or has winning become such a desired result that people just use whatever kills the best without actually trying to use the pokemon they like? I run a mono-dark team on Pokemon Battle Revolution, without darkrai that is, and I think it works pretty well, but it's always the same when I fight these people with the run-of-the-mill teams of infernapes and lucarios.

My team consists of Umbreon, weavile, absol, houndoom, sharpedo, and honchkrow, none of which are seen too much on wifi or Pokemon Battle Revolution, so it's not like I'm being such a hypocrite with the same team. But the game is no fun fighting the same team over and over again, just with slightly different movesets or stats.

I'm just wondering, where is the originality????

I use whatever wins and whatever works. Originality was lost when smogon and sites like it made tiers and reveiwed pokemon.

 

[Inchtall]

I listen to a Pokemon Podcast called It's Super Effective

THANK YOU, DEAR LORD! NOW I CAN STOP USING SMOGON(I hate it. Umbreon in NU? Come on, folks)