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Which Ash do you think is the better character?

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by mehmeh1, Aug 8, 2018.

?

Which?

  1. Kanto Ash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. OI Ash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Johto Ash

    2.6%
  4. Hoenn/BF Ash

    23.1%
  5. Sinnoh Ash

    12.8%
  6. Unova/DA Ash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Kalos Ash

    33.3%
  8. Alola Ash

    28.2%
  1. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    I recently had time to binge watch all the movies recently, so that's going to be heavily weighing in on my opinion. I honestly felt like OS Ash was the best in terms of personality. He had a rather charming sense of self-importance (really thinking punching Mewtwo would work) and had some moment I really had some sense of empathy for him rather than my usual hate-apathy reaction to him (Spell of the Unown and its entirety). Then again, this is me judging a character based on the amount of empathy or sympathy I have for him, so it's not me actually analyzing his character.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ and satopi like this.
  2. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    AG Ash
    He's the perfect blend of competent battler and personality.

    DP Ash would be closest to second with his rivalry with Paul, interactions with Brock and Dawn, his battling skills....
    OS
    Unova was a terrible battler and too much personality
    Alola chooses to focus on his personality more than battles......
    Kalos was competent battler, little to no personality. He lost the damn League and felt nothing!
     
    satopi likes this.
  3. Victorian Rush

    Victorian Rush Flaming Hot

    I actually like Ash in SM. I feel he’s funny and he has more personality than he did in XY. Plus, I do enjoy the slapstick humor of SM. Next I have to go with BW Ash. While I don’t like they had Ash regress to a noob, he had a lot of personality, which XY Ash severly lacked.

    My next choice would have to be OS Ash, followed by AG Ash, DP Ash, and lastly XY Ash.
     
  4. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Rufus is the best Kim Possible character

    OS (all of it)>SM>AG>BW=XY>>>DP.

    OS Ash reigns above all in terms of "character important to the story".
    I'll be voting Johto, since I can't pick "all".

    SM Ash is works very well as a supporting protagonist to the others.

    AG Ash was hot-headed as always but still retained his intelligence.

    BW Ash somehow lost much of his intelligence but didn't have as much cockiness as OS Ash.
    XY Ash was too perfect and rarely displayed hints of flaws he once had.


    DP Ash randomly decided to forgive his rival's actions when it went against everything he stood for as a Trainer.
     
    satopi likes this.
  5. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Out of curiosity, if not for that one moment staining him, how would you rank DP Ash otherwise?
     
  6. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Rufus is the best Kim Possible character

    Probably 3rd or 4th. DP Ash also didn't give Ash a lot of humor from what I remember of it. XY also took his humor, but ramped up his power so much it became funny in itself.
     
  7. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    This is the kid that forgave someone for killing him and forgave someone who betrayed him. I'm sure that it's not too far out of character for Ash to be that forgiving.
     
  8. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    DP Ash had his moments where he was comical, like his dancing moments.

    I see Ash as a forgive but don't forget type of person. Ash does dislike some people but he chooses to move forward from those events (and besides, he just knew in his heart that Alan was manipulated and remorseful. I never saw him forgive Lysandre and Bonnie sure didn't forgive him!) Funny on how the people who tried killing Ash ends up dying.
     
    FlygontheRavager likes this.
  9. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Well-Known Member

    but the 2 that DID kill (our) ash (gengar/haunter/gastly, mew/mewtwo) went off on relatively good terms with him
     
    satopi likes this.
  10. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    I don't remember the ghosts that well, but I think that was a gag and the two psychic pokemon... in their defense, ASH RAN INTO THE CROSSFIRE!
     
    TheWanderingMist and satopi like this.
  11. Kuzehiko

    Kuzehiko Well-Known Member

    DP Ash is the most consistent version of Ash. He got so much character development and he grew up a lot as both a trainer and person. DP Ash was at his peak for sure. There is a reason why he was required to be reset for the next series. AG Ash makes it to a second close imo.

    My problem with XY Ash is that he suddendly changed without any sort of character development at all. Like really? Compare BW Ash to XY Ash? Both are a lot different in many apartaments. XY Ash is more mature, badass and feels like he has much experience as a trainer but as I said above nothing in him triggered that. He didn't get character development in any shape that's why I kind of feel XY Ash feels empty. That said, don't get me wrong, he is overall alright and I like him but that's how I feel towards him.

    SM Ash is okay but he is not close to DP or XY Ash imo.
     
    Ashton Ketchum and Ignition like this.
  12. Genaller

    Genaller My ideals will shatter the truth of this world!

    Yeah if you like DP Ash more as a character or thought he had the best character development (I even agree on this point specifically) then be my guest, but let’s get 1 thing straight; XY Ash is definitively his peak as both a trainer and person!

    In XY the writers had 2 choices; have Ash be consistent with his BW self or instead have Ash be consistent with his OS - DP progression. Thankfully they discarded the witnessed BW Ash for the trash he was and chose to have XY Ash continue from where DP Ash stopped. Here’s my argument for why XY Ash is the true successor to DP Ash:

    XY Ash felt like he picked up right where DP Ash left off. Even early on we see him using eerly similar tactics like using Froakie’s frubbles in novel ways like how he also used Buizel’s flotation sack in an unorthodox manner, and also his RT/DM/AS climb is an extension of the “rock climbing” that Pikachu did in Ash’s Sinnoh League battle with Paul. In terms of character, DP Ash while mature still had quite the temper especially when he thought someone was being incompetent (e.g. Dawn when they battle the tag champs the first time) or when someone’s views vastly diverged from his own (e.g. Paul with respect to philosophy on raising Pokémon) whereas XY Ash was considerably more mellow and rarely let his temper get the better of him. XY Ash was also far more accepting of contrasting views than DP Ash was. Back to the Paul example; Ash at first couldn’t stand Paul’s views on Pokémon raising though by the end of DP he had come to accept that those methods were also a legitimate way of raising Pokémon and that not everyone has to go about it like him. Similarly in XYZ Ash is familiar with Alain being highly motivated by strength yet eventhough Ash himself faltered when he began prioritizing strength too highly instead of love, Ash never chastised Alain on the matter since at this point he understands that just because he isn’t compatible with certain viewpoints, it doesn’t mean that other people can’t benefit from having those views either.

    DP Ash while a brilliant tactician was very prone to anxiety when the going got tough which would hinder his thinking speed and negatively affect his Pokémon. This can be seen in his battle with Conway where he showed visible panic against Trick Room, easily lost 2 of his Pokémon, never properly countered the move and only won because of Gible’s unpredictability. Contrast this with Valerie where against Trick Room he maintained his composure, quickly thought of counter strategies for both of his Pokémon and won the battle on pure merit (he was unquestionably the more skilled trainer). While he ultimately persevered in his SL battle with Paul, Paul was initially able to effectively exploit this weakness of Ash’s during the early stages of their match by countering him every time he had a major burst of ingenuity and this resulted in Ash making a critical error with regards to the timing of Torterra’s synthesis. Even in the initial Kalos gym battles this flaw remains. Against Viola we see Ash visibly distraught after his first loss since he wasn’t able to quickly think up counters to the strategies Viola used for their rematch. Even as far as Ramos we see Ash visibly anxious when his back was against the wall and he was only able to regain his composure after encouragement from Pikachu. After this point though Ash no longer has this flaw and understands that having such an attitude will both negatively affect his judgment and his Pokémon (he even gives Sawyer advice on this in XY 75).

    Even DP Ash was never able to competitively battle with the E4 with Bertha only using their battle to test and develop Ash’s observation, and she destroyed him the moment she upped the difficulty after which she told him how he still had a long way to go, as well as Flint’s Infernape casually stomping Buizel and Infernape, only getting somewhat serious against Pikachu and yet Pikachu didn’t manage to make F-Ape “sell” with any of its hits. Then we have Paul who was meant to be considered as Ash’s equal yet the Sinnoh Champion gave him a curbstomp to end all curbstomps. In XY it’s the same at first with Diantha effortlessly wrecking Ash and Pikachu though then... it happened! In XYZ 25 Ash showed for the first time in over 900 episodes that he could in fact battle competitively with trainers of the highest lvl and could realistically beat the E4s and Champions someday. In the Kalos League he had his best placement yet as runner up and while he technically was also 2nd best in Sinnoh, he got owned 6-2 by Tobias whereas in Kalos he lost in a very close 6-5 after putting up a valiant fight against the only non-E4/Champion trainer in the entire series who was able to defeat the Ace of an E4 Pokémon that too the Mega variant which would be substantially stronger (with a monster like that as an Ace Alain in all likelihood would destroy both Tobias’s Darkrai and Latios, and do the same to the rest of his team unless he had some secret weapon that’s a lot stronger than those 2 were) a.k.a Ash’s Alain feat > Ash’s Tobias feat. Ash also flat-out gave his best performance in terms of skill till date against Alain and yes I’m including Ash vs Paul SL when I say. (https://forums.serebii.net/threads/ashs-goat-performance-as-a-trainer.662645/). Finally in the last episode of DP, Ash looks in awe at the high lvl battle that Cynthia and Flint were having, and even vicariously projects himself on to Flint in order to imagine what a battle of that caliber would feel like. Well in XYZ he didn’t have to imagine anyomore; with his Ash-Greninja being in the Champion Ace/E4 Mega Ace spectrum and Alain’s Mega Charizard X being the strongest Pokémon in existence barring Champion Mega Aces and maybe Lysandre’s Mega Red Gyarados, Ash and Alain’s climactic match in the Kalos League Finals was conducted at a decisviely higher lvl!!!

    XY truly was the culmination of Ash Ketchum as both a trainer and a human being; at the end of XYZ he already had both the skill and mentality to be a top tier trainer on par with even the E4s and Champions, and all that’s left to do is train up his Pokémon a bit more :D.
     
    345ash-greninja and Akkipeddi like this.
  13. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Well-Known Member

    TRAINER
    1.DP Ash
    2.XY Ash
    3.AG Ash
    4.BW Ash
    5.OS Ash (Johto)
    6.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    7.OS Ash (Kanto)


    BATTLER
    1.DP Ash
    2.XY Ash
    3.BW Ash
    4.AG Ash
    5.OS Ash (Johto)
    6.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    7.OS Ash (Kanto)

    Maturity
    1.XY Ash
    2.DP Ash
    3.BW Ash
    4.AG Ash (Battle Frontier)
    5.AG Ash (Hoenn)
    6.OS Ash (Johto)
    7.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    8.OS Ash (Kanto)

    Hot-headed/Rash
    1.OS Ash (Kanto)
    2.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    3.OS Ash (Johto)
    4.AG Ash (Hoenn)
    5.AG Ash (Battle Frontier)
    6.BW Ash
    7.DP Ash
    8.XY Ash


    I don't watch Sun & Moon!!
     
    Genaller and Ashton Ketchum like this.
  14. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    XY Ah was better battler and trainer anyday than DP Ash, DP Ash is totally overrated even BF version of ash is superiro to him. His XY version is by far the farthest he has gone .

    IN DP frankly he was somewhat bland and didn't really got much character development like he did in OS and AG. The only time he showed emotion was when he faced paul and that's it. He personality started to get little bit robotic by this time.
     
  15. Kuzehiko

    Kuzehiko Well-Known Member

    The problem with your argument is that you you're talking about XY Ash as if he'd come after DP Ash. If that were the case then I would agree so badly that XY Ash is the best Ash up untio now but blame it on BW. There is a bridge between the ending of BW and the beginning of XY. How does Ash become such a badass, great, experienced and mature trainer when he wasn't even a bit like that in BW? It happened out of nowhere. Unlike in DP he didn't go through any deep change. Nothing in him forced to do that. There was no struggle to become such a strong and badass trainer unlike in DP and it is not about whether I like DP Ash more, it is a fact that XY became a badass out of nowhere without any effort nor struggle. He simply showed u
     
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    My problem with XY Ash was that he almost felt more like a prop than his own character as the series went on, not having many developed chemistries with the other characters and almost lacking in self awareness. He almost felt robotic, I think Serena could have said she was pregnant with his baby and still only got his usual response of a fistpump and "That's awesome, good for you!".

    This had it's downside on the rest of the show as well, since so many character revolved their development around him and yet he didn't really immerse or bounce off of them, making this dynamic rather one sided and bland. Serena's dynamic with Ash in particular felt underdeveloped because we had all of one moment she was made to notice he was an imperfect human being and got to do much more than fawn over how amazing and inspirational he was, which of course really stunted her character growth in that area.

    I don't care if one incarnation is a good demonstration of how they should progress and act if it means they're boring as hell and barely even a character at this point in time. After all not everyone has watched the anime beforehand so can appreciate that dynamic element of Ash, from their POV he'd just be a completely bland over-the-top perfect stock hero.

    I think this is why some, even those that value a more serious and mature Ash, tend to prefer DP Ash because he still had more of a characterisation and emotional range.
     
  17. Kuzehiko

    Kuzehiko Well-Known Member

    The problem with your argument is that you you're talking about XY Ash as if he'd come after DP Ash. If that were the case then I would agree so badly that XY Ash is the best Ash up till now but blame it on BW. There is a bridge between the ending of BW and the beginning of XY. How does Ash become such a badass, experienced and strong trainer when there was no struggle nor effort at all? He didn't go through any change to get stronger and BW Ash wasn't like XY Ash at all.

    XY Ash isn't consistent at all. Yeah, sure if you single him out and pretend BW did not exist then he is the best Ash for sure but that ain't the case here. XY Ash is not consistent to BW Ash unlike DP Ash.

    There is a progress with DP Ash which he got from AG and OS unlike XY Ash. He became a badass and strong trainer out of nowhere. We didn't see a progress or him going through any hardships at all either.

    It is not about whether or not I like DP Ash more. It is about it is a fact XY is not consistent to BW Ash and there is no such thing as a progress between both versions even when the ending of BW and beginning of XY are strongly connected.

    All you mentioned about DP Ash doen't make make him look any worse. He feels a way more real than XY Ash. DP Ash makes mistakes but he learns a lot from them. He feels a way more realistic to me than XY Ash. XY Ash had a winning streak that made him look unbeatable. He was a way too good and barely made any mistakes while fighting. He didn't require to learn from mistakes or have hardships cause as I said he was a way too good which makes zero sense taking into account he is not consistent at all to BW Ash.

    You might think XY Ash not being consistent is just a very small detail but I see it as a big one in my book.
     
  18. Genaller

    Genaller My ideals will shatter the truth of this world!

    Yeah you’re going on the premise that the witnessed XY Ash is a direct continuation of the witnessed BW Ash which I completely reject. If we accept that the witnessed BW occurs in the same continuity as the witnessed OS - DP then we get a blatant contradiction as BW Ash is incompatible with all other variants of himself (and that includes even Kanto Ash). XY was an attempt at rectifying this horrendous mistake by putting Ash back on in-line with his progression from OS - DP. Ash became such a badass and experienced trainer in XY because he was allowed to draw on his OS - DP experiences as well as the growth he had received in those series.

    Yeah literally no version of Ash is even compatible (never mind consistent) with BW Ash, so if once again if we were to accept that the BW Ash we saw exists in the same continuity as any of the other versions of Ash we’ve seen then it follows that the anime is internally inconsistent making all truth claims about it meaningless.

    Yeah Ash had made the bulk of his progression by DP (which was the series where he made his greatest leaps as a trainer) and XY actually tries to respect that progression hence in XY Ash primarily “refines” the skills he’s gained from OS - DP.

    If you want evidence of how the end of BW isn’t as strongly connected to the beginning of XY as you’re making it out to be then look no further than Ash himself in particular his physical height and the sharpness of his features. While it’s true Ash’s physical characteristics also change from DP - BW and XY - SM, in those to cases an undisclosed period of time passed whereas the time difference between end of BW and beginning of XY is only the length of a plane flight. Note that while I consider the witnessed BW to take place in a parallel verse, I still consider there to be a “true” version of BW that falls in line with the witnessed OS, AG, DP and XY Ashes.

    What I showed and what my main point was is that XY Ash is Ash’s peak a.k.a XY Ash had both the most trainer skill and emotional maturity out of every version of Ash till date!. You claimed that DP Ash was his peak and I voiced my disagreement; that’s all. Of course if you meant “peak” in terms of character writing or likeability then that’s fine (regardless of whether I agree I don’t have any particular interest in arguing about those aspects since they’re far more subjective than metrics like trainer skill and emotional maturity).

    Pretty sure the guy who made a convoluted headcanon about the witnessed BW occurring in a parallel world in order to circumvent Ash’s blatant inconsistency problem highly values Ash’s consistency. At the end of the day XY Ash couldn’t be consistent with both OS - DP Ash and BW Ash since BW Ash wasn’t compatible with any of his previous iterations, so the writers made the smart choice and had him pick up from where he left off after his progression from OS to DP. I’ve given compelling evidence in terms of how XY Ash surpasses DP Ash in terms of emotional maturity and trainer skill, and unless you or anyone else can properly refute my justification, I’m content with my viewpoint as it stands :).
     
  19. Genaller

    Genaller My ideals will shatter the truth of this world!

    Inspired by PBF:

    TRAINER

    1.XY Ash
    2.DP Ash
    3.AG Ash
    4.BW Ash
    5. OS Ash (Johto)
    6.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    7.OS Ash (Kanto)


    BATTLER
    1.XY Ash
    2.DP Ash
    3.AG Ash
    4.OS Ash (Johto)
    5.BW Ash
    6.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    7.OS Ash (Kanto)

    Maturity
    1.XY Ash
    2.DP Ash
    3.AG Ash (Battle Frontier)
    4.BW Ash
    5.AG Ash (Hoenn)
    6.OS Ash (Johto)
    7.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    8.OS Ash (Kanto)

    Hot-headed/Rash
    1.OS Ash (Kanto)
    2.OS Ash (Orange Islands)
    3.OS Ash (Johto)
    4.AG Ash (Hoenn)
    5.AG Ash (Battle Frontier)
    6.BW Ash
    7.DP Ash
    8.XY Ash
     
  20. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Well-Known Member

    as of now, where would you rate sm ash?
     

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