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Which Ash do you think is the better character?

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by mehmeh1, Aug 8, 2018.

?

Which?

  1. Kanto Ash

    6.9%
  2. OI Ash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Johto Ash

    1.4%
  4. Hoenn/BF Ash

    12.5%
  5. Sinnoh Ash

    18.1%
  6. Unova/DA Ash

    1.4%
  7. Kalos Ash

    30.6%
  8. Alola Ash

    29.2%
  1. Epicocity

    Epicocity Well-Known Member

    I would argue it's more what I would call the "SM effect". PM Ash has definitely reclaimed more of his older tendencies that SM glossed over or seemed to ignore entirely: his willingness to jump into an adventure, his wanderlust, his fire for battle. However, there are some holdovers from SM, namely how physically affectionate he gets with new Pokemon, which was something he never really did too much of before but SM made a staple of his character. I think those things are just going to linger.

    I wouldn't, for the moment however, say they are the same, though.
     
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  2. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 You can make a change

    Incineroar desperately needed more screentime that it didn't get because they wanted to give Pikachu a bunch of 1v1s for some reason. Heck, he was the only one on Ash's team who did nothing and got nothing in the Ula Ula arc (Poipole didn't get a boost and didn't have much focus, but he did get to see U.Necrozma's drawing and had fun interactions). Melmetal was mostly well handled for the short time he had, but Ash should've actively trained more with him pre-league. Naganadel had some fun interactions, but his role in his own arc was just to stand around, and he didn't make any active contributions there. His return was fun, but came literally out of nowhere and without any explanation (unlike Goodra's, which was set up a bit before the league), and his second farewell, while better than Goodra's second, was still kinda eh. Rowlet was fun, but the Hau battle at the league kinda ruined his development. Thankfully the Kukui battle did him a bit better.
    My headcanon is that after being linked with Greninja, he understands how it feels to be a pokemon much more, which is why he gets more physically affectionate. Yeah, I know he did once get turned into a pokemon in johto, but that was just for a brief while
     
  3. SerGoldenhandtheJust

    SerGoldenhandtheJust Well-Known Member

    Interesting theory I would love if continuity such as this would carry over from series to series but alas it doesn't. Continuity is really a Problem ever since DP ended.
     
    mehmeh1 and Pokegirl Fan~ like this.
  4. Epicocity

    Epicocity Well-Known Member

    I can see it as a headcanon, though it's not a trait I particularly care for that they suddenly introduced. His reaction to Yamper was a bit much for me, personally, and really showed the lingering effect that SM had, and not in a good way in my opinion. It's one thing to know how it feels to be a Pokemon, after all, but another entirely to just start randomly hugging a random Pokemon.
     
    Ubermuk likes this.
  5. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Also I think they still want to keep some level of vibrancy to Ash in PM, and SM Ash was a step in that direction, being more eccentric and having more of an agency besides battling and goals. By XY Ash had become overly goal and action centric, hence being considered bland whenever the plots got more laid back or tried to be character driven, while SM made him more versatile interaction and scenario wise. PM is obviously still more light hearted and 'wacky antic' based than XY is with more arbitrary plots, Ash still isn't really that goal centric anymore, so it makes sense they still want to utilise that direction SM capitalised on.

    I think since XY they've wanted to make Ash more of an enigma anyway, a character whose intellect and mindset not everyone (or even himself) can quite figure out, so it makes sense to keep this 'weirder' more eccentric version of Ash to some degree. Like 'is he dumb or is he too genius for them to comprehend?'
     
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  6. J.Agera

    J.Agera Well-Known Member

    Old thread revived?
    Anyways I might as well give my thoughts.

    I stopped caring for his character after XY.
    After XY, he went from a funny-badass character to a seemingly over the top hyperactive and annoying protagonist.
    He lost all his consistency after DP , XY tried to correct it, but changing directors again meant different ideas and thus different direction. At this point I am not against replacing Ash anymore. Bring us a new protagonist instead of destroying Ash's character any further. I don't want him to be removed because "He overstayed his welcome" or "I am bored of him" or anything like that, I just want his character to stop receive further damage.
    Bring in a new protagonist and stop changing directors ffs.

    I think I am at that stage where I am about to quit the series.
     
    Ashton Ketchum and mehmeh1 like this.
  7. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 You can make a change

    While he still has some of his SM energy (especially when interacting with pokemon), he still has quite a few badass moments in the new series, like when he challenges Lugia or when he climbs onto Gmax Snorlax
     
    KenzeyEevee likes this.
  8. AznKei

    AznKei Blaze is great in Street Of Rage 4. O_O

    They could make him stick with only the gym, rival and league battles while the companions can take of Team Rockets and taking care of the COTD and POTD problems, so he wouldn't lose much that way and the companions would contribute more in their series.

    But I would go to SM Ash, because unlike other Ashes, with the exception of anime-exclusive competitions, he won the Alola League. Sure we could argue which regional teams is better, but the show would never put them or his regional rivals fighting against each other ever.
     
  9. Ubermuk

    Ubermuk Sticky & Sweet

    Can I just say that I don't get the comparisons between current 2019 series Ash and SM Ash? SM Ash was more comedy driven to match the writing from that series but the current Ash is more grounded other than a few moments of humor here and there.
     
  10. game3524

    game3524 Well-Known Member

    The debate about the "different" Ashs in general is a bit silly. Hie character has been the same since Johto. It is one reason why I find the culmination talk funny. His character arc didn't peak in DP/XY or whatever. His character arc peaked the minute Charizard started to listen to him. Yes, he gets better as a trainer, but as a person Ash has stopped growing in that department (and there is nothing wrong with that). The big thing with Ash now is the tone of each series which draws out different aspects of his personality, which like you say is down to the writing.
     
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  11. Ignition

    Ignition “Go get ‘em, tiger!”

    I think his best “iterations” were OS-DP because it felt like he was improving both in terms of being a Trainer and being a human being. BW-SM aren’t bad (though I’ll be the first to admit his BW portrayal is my least favorite) but they don’t feel like progress from their predecessors alongside the extreme shifts of his personality.
     
  12. J.Agera

    J.Agera Well-Known Member

    I already disliked his over the top SM energy, a few moments dosent nullify the fact that his actual character is overshadowed by hyperactive and overly goofy traits which makes a character annoying (in my opinion) when those were never his characteristics in the first place.
    There used to be a balance which is lost.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  13. SerGoldenhandtheJust

    SerGoldenhandtheJust Well-Known Member

    I do agree on the balance point. Heck I think the most balanced Ash was in AG actually with the comedy and immatureness but also keeping in mind the growth and seriousness. In DP i thought he was more serious and the balance kinda tipped a bit, which isn't called out by many coz DP still had some humor. BW Ash was a nutcase, and the easily the most obvious example of the balance being destroyed. XY Ash was same to DP ash in the first season or so before becoming even more serious. SM Ash was definitely more light hearted and while he wasn't balanced throughout like he was in AG, he did have a lot of his moments where the balance showed. Tbh I think the perfect ash is currently PM 2019 ash coz he seems to be a mix of both imo but without losing his charm. If only they kept ash consistent throughout i doubt many would hate him
     
  14. J.Agera

    J.Agera Well-Known Member

    I didn't mind him getting serious at all. Him getting serious was nothing out of the ordinary, considering he grew mature as the series progressed.
    What doesn't make sense is how kiddish he is turning after XY, each series.
    Stupid, Snarky and goofy (kiddish stage) -> Mature and Goofy (balanced stage) -> Mature and Composed (veteran stage) is how the progression should be, Mature and Goofy -> Overly hyperactive and goofy makes zero sense.
    This inconsistency is reverting his character back destroying all of his development.
     
    SH65 and Ashton Ketchum like this.
  15. SerGoldenhandtheJust

    SerGoldenhandtheJust Well-Known Member

    Yes but him completely turning serious ruins him. It ruins the charm ash had and makes him bland. Ash is still at the end of the day a kid. Yeah i can see why you don't like SM Ash coz it was more kiddish even tho i personally enjoyed him, however PM 2019 to me feels the perfect fit for what ash should be considering he doesn't age.
     
    JustAStatistic likes this.
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Truthfully a lot of the time SM/PK Ash feels less childish and more eccentric, like all this time travelling without supervision has made him wild and something of a cloud cuckoo lander.

    Maybe it's just because I have spot for those sort of archetypes, but I don't really mind this comically weird (but still competent) take on Ash, especially since he can usually turn serious when the scenario calls for it. It truthfully capitalises more on this mysterious aura XY set up for him, this more enigmatic side to him. It's maybe best PK moderated it a bit, but I like Ash has more idiosyncrasies, especially since it helps him gain more chemistries with the rest of the cast.

    Little personality tics like him describing circumstances through sound effects or gushing over any new Pokemon in sight, that makes him feel more like his own character.

    Besides that, this Ash still maintained a lot of his pivots in development. Sure he was more hyperactive again, but he didn't unlearn all the lessons he'd went through. I'd have hated if Ash just spent every episode having to learn to not be confrontational and arrogant all the time like in the first series, but SM/PK Ash is generally more open minded and laid back, having only moderate disagreements or outbursts (ie. just enough to remind you he's still that same character).
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  17. J.Agera

    J.Agera Well-Known Member

    I don't want him to remain static.
    The fact that over the top goofy characters annoy me is a minor issue.
    He grows, the 10 year old tag might be fixed on him but that doesn't mean he didn't acquire experiences to change him.
    You don't enjoy mature characters then that's your opinion, but we know majority of the fandom did.
    They felt like the hero who grew up with them was growing mature alongside them, maybe not with age but as a person. His XY version was everything people wanted out of his character as the "grown" Ash Ketchum. It felt like the conclusive iteration for Ash. Which is why he is loved. The young goofy Ketchum was enjoyable but he should have been a thing of the past, people didn't want him to remain the snarky kid forever.
    Now revert him back to his goofy self and then you commit the same mistake as the BW. Screwing up all his development and returning back to square 1.

    PM 2019 Ash is even more goofy than his SM self.

    Him remaining ultimately a non progressive static character is the exact reason people want him to be replaced.
    There's practically no reason to look forward to his character progression.
     
    SH65 and Ashton Ketchum like this.
  18. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 You can make a change

    I wouldn't call him goofier than his SM self tbh. Most meme faces are gone, he's not doing stuff like say, when he got to Alola and went chasing a random Grubbin for no reason only to wind up at the pokemon school (the closest thing to that being going after Lugia, but then again, literally everyone there did that), and he in general seems a bit more composed than SM Ash. If anything, I'm getting a bit more of an "Early XY" Ash feel, just that nothing as large scale as XY episode 2 has happened yet.
     
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  19. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    I did.
    There was no reason to remove his snarkiness. It didn't get in a way of his development.

    I'd even say his development from OS Johto through DP to XY (excluding BW) didn't make sense looking back at his Kanto self.
     
  20. J.Agera

    J.Agera Well-Known Member

    It did coz the characters weren't like Misty anymore.
    I can't imagine his snarkiness working on humble characters.
    His snarkiness wared off gradually so it wasn't like it happened suddenly.

    Lot of people find him more hyperactive than his SM. Maybe I confused that with goofiness.
     
    Ashton Ketchum and mehmeh1 like this.

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