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Which companion did you feel like the writers didn’t have a clear plan for?

Pokemonfan5

Well-Known Member
Misty and Serena fit for that, Misty wasn't important for the story at all and it wasn't until whirl cup arc her character actually progress.

Serena in first season was just there most of the time without doing anything, her showcases come out of nowhere with the characters which already shown before, Kalos queen Aria in pokevision episode and Miette in baking contest but no mention of showcases, writers probably thought bring contests back without battle round to make showcases look different.


Also I don't think it's fair to include male companions before Goh because they're mostly supporting characters with minimum focus, same goes for Lana and Mallow as Lillie was main focus in SM and right now Goh is main focus so there is minimum focus on Chloe.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Golden Queen
Ash Ketchum himself. What the heck is a Pokemon Master?
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
and right now Goh is main focus so there is minimum focus on Chloe.
I'm not sure that Koharu should even be considered given that it was apparent from the start that she was more of a recurring supporting character than a member of the main cast. Her development was never going to be a big priority from my perspective, even compared to Masato's or Kenji's.
 
Goh? His Mew goal was revealed really early on and so was his other goal of catching every Pokemon so clearly the writing staff had a clear plan for him.
It's taken 70 episodes for us - almost halfway through the season(!) - to finally have some sort of definite(?) lead where Mew resides.

Except...why hasn't Goh REALLY done any sort of research himself into Mew sightings before instead of goofing around the world in 80 minutes then? Logic dictates that someone as obsessed as him should have done his homework into finding Mew because at least the general public doesn't think that it's a myth. Instead, he just lets life get back at him with an answer (probably because he knows greatness will look for him instead of the other way around), which it did in the form of meeting Oak again and him letting Goh know about Project Mew. The closest he got into Mew was when he fought Mewtwo, but since that was a one-kind deal, nothing really came out of it.
Ash Ketchum himself. What the heck is a Pokemon Master?
Only the best of the best!
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
A character doesn't need a ton of focus episodes in order to develop. The difference between Serena and Dawn and May is that she is a slow-burn character. Her development is slow to come, stews in the background for a while, and then usually has a positive result. Koharu is a similar character and you can see it in how even her seeming focus episodes...weren't really about her (also, they had roughly the same amount of focus eps, Serena 3 hyper focused eps, and Koharu 4 semi-focused eps where she was mostly the major B-plot).

You cannot judge an author's plan for a character based on how much focus their character has. That's asinine at best.
Imagine boiling down characters to just numbers. It's the content of what is in the episodes that matters.
Imagine thinking a slow-burn character who you need to have a bit of patience to watch their arc come to fruition means the writer doesn't have a plan for them.
Well the numbers are clearly giving the "reason" to the people that mentioned Serena during her first year.

There is a difference between "slow-burn character" and a Character that does barely meaningful things during almost 40 episodes in comparison with other characters that actually worked on their own problems and goals like May or Dawn who are not mentioned here.

With that "slow-burn character" argument you can argue that Even Lillie post Aether Foundation arc was a "slow-burn character" who was addressed in a sense later with the Mohn plot, but you know what? People (including me) is also mentioning Lillie in this thread, why? Because for a lot of people the lack of actual Focus for the character problems like Serena in S17 or Lillie post Aether Foundation arc is a clear sign of not knowing that to do with the characters.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
Wow to say that Lillie had a crazy character arc but then defend your fave for virtually doing nothing for a quarter of the series is chaotic.

Lillie at least was more active than y’all fave (can’t say the name because the name is cursed and closes threads). I would go into details on why Lillie had an overall character arc besides “she had the AF and looked for Mohn at the end” but that’s an entire essay so maybe I’ll just edit this later and present my case.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Wow to say that Lillie had a crazy character arc but then defend your fave for virtually doing nothing for a quarter of the series is chaotic.

Lillie at least was more active than y’all fave (can’t say the name because the name is cursed and closes threads). I would go into details on why Lillie had an overall character arc besides “she had the AF and looked for Mohn at the end” but that’s an entire essay so maybe I’ll just edit this later and present my case.
Yes, Lillie, whose greatest accomplishments were...getting her memory back in a situation outside of her control and crying to activate a compass after her brother did all the work. That's literally the exact opposite of active. In fact, outside of Serebii and Twitter, most people look at Lillie as a character with very little character agency to her own arc.

And in either case, if you think Serena did "nothing" for a quarter of the series you need the blinders off, because I can count quite the number of ways she developed.

STOP CONFLATING GOAL ARC WITH CHARACTER ARC.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I'm mixed about Lillie since while her progression fluctuated and it did feel like her arc got some overhauls midway through production (like Faba being a convenient instigator behind it all), I feel like they did okay-ish making Lillie work within the main group, like it didn't feel like they just had her there as dead weight not knowing how she'd work episode by episode, she was the intellectual and little sister of the group and the connection point between the kids and Aether and Gladion and what not. In terms of individual development, yeah they could have done better, but she at least wasn't standing there making zero contributions most of the time besides maybe a running gag or two.

I feel this is the bigger problem people have with characters like Brock or Mallow or early XY Serena, it's not just they don't have some key arc but they aren't really being used much at all, they don't have a big effect on how the series works. It's arguably a large factor in why people thought Misty whittled to nothing by Johto as well, it's not like she had a promising arc at the beginning of Kanto, but she had a fun dynamic and agency within the main group that made her feel key to the show, while in Johto she's often just in the background.

I think this was a downside to May as well, sure she got her arc, but after a while she didn't really stick out unless the show was focusing on it specifically, not getting a lot of interactions or importance unless the story was tailor made for her. Serena to some degree still suffered the same problem even when the showcases started. Dawn to compare is memorable not just for her individual arc but her actual fun chemistries and abilities to stick out in loads of stories, even in ones not necessarily about her.
 
If we want to bring plans between supporting characters, there were absolutely zero plans to even have Serena and Clemont do meaningful stuff together without Ash in the picture.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Yes, Lillie, whose greatest accomplishments were...getting her memory back in a situation outside of her control and crying to activate a compass after her brother did all the work. That's literally the exact opposite of active. In fact, outside of Serebii and Twitter, most people look at Lillie as a character with very little character agency to her own arc.

And in either case, if you think Serena did "nothing" for a quarter of the series you need the blinders off, because I can count quite the number of ways she developed.

STOP CONFLATING GOAL ARC WITH CHARACTER ARC.
Nobody is conflating goal arc with character arc, just you can't act like if introducing a personal conflict in XY001 and barely touching it until the Summer camp counts as "a character arc". For having a character arc, You need to address the character's problem and this barely happened during XY's first year, which is why people mentioned Serena in the first place.
 

Teravolt

Justice for Avi!
Also this is technically wrong. The writers clearly have a plan with Ash: His goal is so ambiguos that it allows them to never fully accomplish it, so he can be an eternal marketable character.
That's more a business plan without having a real plan.
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
Yes, Lillie, whose greatest accomplishments were...getting her memory back in a situation outside of her control and crying to activate a compass after her brother did all the work. That's literally the exact opposite of active. In fact, outside of Serebii and Twitter, most people look at Lillie as a character with very little character agency to her own arc.

And in either case, if you think Serena did "nothing" for a quarter of the series you need the blinders off, because I can count quite the number of ways she developed.

STOP CONFLATING GOAL ARC WITH CHARACTER ARC.
I’m not even arguing with you saying that Lillie did not work…like she did not ask Ash and Nebby to transport her places to find her memory, didn’t initiate looking for Lusamine with Gladion, didn’t help Gladion and Lusamine look for Mohn and didn’t actively try to master her Z move. If you have a rebuttal against any of that argue with the SM writers because all of that occurred.

also even if I believed you majority opinion doesn’t equal the truth.

Like I said Serena did nothing before the Summer Camp arc. She left home to be with Ash, helped him develop a strategy and had that episode with Grace and moved to the background once Korrina came in. I’m not conflating anything.
 
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Jers745

I dont know :p
They said companions so i wont say ash (even though he did have a goal in kanto thats to win the league which for that time basically meaned becoming pokemon master but after that league the meaning of pokemon master was expanded to whichever meaning has now) i would say misty she didnt have any goal for all of the OS and even though she said that her dream was becoming a water type specialist, (which she basically is now) she didnt do anything in order to become it even goh has better development towards his dream
 

Sham

These leaks have me distressed
And quiet as it’s kept the goal arc and character arc was both trash. Yes she changed as a person and it was great but the way and instrument used was so messy you can’t even enjoy it. When the goal is used to further the character arc then yes they’re are intertwined and can come under criticism individually and together.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Nobody is conflating goal arc with character arc, just you can't act like if introducing a personal conflict in XY001 and barely touching it until the Summer camp counts as "a character arc". For having a character arc, You need to address the character's problem and this barely happened during XY's first year, which is why people mentioned Serena in the first place.
That's...not how it works. And even if it was, Serena's arc still developed in the first place. She literally goes through moments countless times where she gives up, or is forced to power through situations she would usually give up on. She has a whole episode dedicated to understanding that perhaps she thought wrong about Rhyhorn Racing. Just because every episode wasn't like "Oh, will this be my goal?!" doesn't mean time wasn't spent on it.

The fact that her arc is literally her both searching for a purpose in life and her overcoming her indecisiveness and quitting tendencies necessitates that time be spent where she isn't in the spotlight.

In any case, just because she wasn't "doing anything" does not mean there were no plans. I've had novels I've written where I've been told I didn't have a plan for a character, but I know full well I did; it just moved slowly along for a while before becoming extremely important.
I’m not even arguing with you saying that Lillie did not work…like she did not ask Ash and Nebby to transport her places to find her memory, didn’t initiate looking for Lusamine with Gladion, didn’t help Gladion and Lusamine look for Mohn and didn’t actively try to master her Z move. If you have a rebuttal against any of that argue with the SM writers because all of that occurred.

also even if I believed you majority opinion doesn’t equal the truth.

Like I said Serena did nothing before the Summer Camp arc. She left home to be with Ash, helped him develop a strategy and had that episode with Grace and moved to the background once Korrina came in. I’m not conflating anything.
Pretty sure Ash suggested going to search for her memories first in the Nebby case, and while Lillie did go with Gladion to rescue Lusamine it gets utterly undercut by both Ash being the one to end the fight and the actual resolution with her mother being offscreened (and even so, Gladion did the majority of the work in that fight, which you clearly don't accord Serena the same latitude if she were to do the same). And no, Lillie didn't even care about her father until Gladion brought it up, magically found Magearna which magically activated when she cried because Gladion had found Zoroark. As for her Z-Move...really mitigated by the fact she was given a Z-Ring for almost getting it right, and then we never saw her practice on screen.

And the fact you said Serena left home to be with Ash instantly invalidates your opinion when we have her literally textually stating she left home to get away from Rhyhorn Racing. Ash was the excuse she decided to use because she was fed up, not the actual reason. Holding to that perpetuated lie just shows you ignored anything that contrasts your opinion of her.

And regardless of the critique of her first year...it does not mean the writers had no plan for her. It's very very clear that they did by how the rest of XY alone was written, from knowing Alain would be Ash's final opponent, to Froakie's arc being firmly established in XY 1, to the sheer amount of bookending between the first ten episodes and the Flare arc. You really think they'd manage to piece all of that together so tightly in advance by their own admittance yet somehow not come up with a plan for one of their major characters? Give me a break...
 
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