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Which companion did you feel like the writers didn’t have a clear plan for?

Sham

Code Lyoko was ahead of it's time
Idk I personally felt like Lillie’s entire character arc was her being behind and overall broad lesson that just because you practice something doesn't mean you're going to be good at it automatically.

So long we have characters in the anime (and TV shows in general) display a character practicing maybe a couple of times and that's used as a justification on why they are able to execute whatever they are doing perfectly or significantly more better. I'm thinking of that whole episode dedicated to Naruto learning the Rasengan and then a little latter was able to use it against the Akatsuki a few episodes later.

Lillie was sheltered as a child and due to her fear of Pokemon wasn't able to properly connect with Pokemon nor go on a Journey. Her interaction with Pokemon was extremely limited due to those two factors and we don't really have much of a reason to believe that wouldn't be Gladion's fate if he didn't live early. She purposely enrolled her self into the Pokemon school to give herself her own agency and allow herself to interact with Pokemon without fearing them (not gonna get into her PTSD arc but it was awesome debate your journal).

Despite being in a couple of battles using Pikachu, battling with Gladion with Snowy, battling with Alolan Sandrew in the Ice Cave etc she still was far behind than the rest. The anime constantly reminding us "what type of trainer will she be!". The fact of the matter is Lillie still left the show as a weak trainer and that's okay. Narrative wise it doesn't make sense for her to be a strong trainer. She does not have the same experience as everyone else in the show and she's still all very new to this. It teaches that everyone runs on their different pace and "practicing" isn't a magic fix button on certain issues automatically. Lillie is an example of realistic growth and how despite we might not control how circumstances we can have some control over our perseverance. Despite arguably being the weakest trainer she had the most realistic growth evaluating her circumstances. That's why narrative wise it made sense she lost to Gladion because they have two separate experiences as trainers. Sure one day she can become stronger but due to the lax nature of Alola with battles, her fear and her family history the course of SM just wasn't the time. Another thing we can get into is that brute strength isn't everything. Arguably most of Lillie's battles were her playing to her own strengths and using strategies when catching UB's and battling Pokemon.


tldr: Lillie is the best girl and people will just have to accept that I'm sorry.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Why did they bash Serena?

I thought She was a nice girl while not doing anything to them?
If you want to see actual bashing, look at Goh, this Serena "bashing" (which is not actual Bashing as people most of the time is at least civilized) is nothing in comparison, but of course threads gets locked and comments deleted when talking about Serena even in threads related to her, but this is not the case with Goh.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
If you want to see actual bashing, look at Goh, this Serena "bashing" (which is not actual Bashing as people most of the time is at least civilized) is nothing in comparison, but of course threads gets locked and comments deleted when talking about Serena even in threads related to her, but this is not the case with Goh.
Yeah and Iris didn’t get at least half amount of that protection while people were attacking her constantly about how she bullied Ash.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Remember: Eevee Taxi>Showcases & Best Girl Dawn <3
They'll also cry and moan when people point this out and mods delete and lock their crap when it really goes off the rails, but it really isn't a new thing. It's been done multiple times before by multiple different people. There is a user here who did the same shebang a lot more couple years ago and when people called him out on it, he had to embarrassingly create a new account to defend himself.

But of course, when most of these people have joined in 2019 or later, what can you really expect? It's why I laugh when people say this place somehow got toxic with Journeys or something. It's always been toxic. Those old " Controversial Opinion Threads " are a great testament to that. The difference is always the narrative of where the toxicity is aimed.

The " Serena hate corner " comment is especially apt.
I have to ask, did you pat yourself on the back praising your superior intellect when you came up with that status and profile pic?
I appreciate you looking up when some of us joined but hope you do know people have lurked here for a long time before having an account and in the fandom in general for a longer time and therefore can talk about stuff like this as well
Oh what a shocker, a thread called 'controversial opinion thread' was controversial and toxic. Journeys in these forums has been more toxic, doesn't mean there weren't any toxic instances in the past here. There were, but the atmosphere here overall and in multiple threads and attitude is much more toxic then back then, esp in BW era which is a series quite detested by the fandom
As for the mods thing, you frankly have no idea about some of our specific experiences as well which is why we were discussing it in that profile post you decided to come and preach to us about. And just because you can't see the bias and controversy surrounding her in threads and how they end up compared to characters like Goh and think she's bashed regularly whenever someone doesn't think she's the holy bible of how good characters are written, doesn't mean it is nonexistent.
Calm your ego
 
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Power Up

There's light at the end of the tunnel
I have to ask, did you pat yourself on the back praising your superior intellect when you came up with that status and profile pic?
I appreciate you looking up when some of us joined but hope you do know people have lurked here for a long time before having an account and in the fandom in general for a longer time and therefore can talk about stuff like this as well
Oh what a shocker, a thread called 'controversial opinion thread' was controversial and toxic. Journeys in these forums has been more toxic, doesn't mean there weren't any toxic instances in the past here. There were, but the atmosphere here overall and in multiple threads and attitude is much more toxic then back then, esp in BW era which is a series quite detested by the fandom
As for the mods thing, you frankly have no idea about some of our specific experiences as well which is why we were discussing it in that profile post you decided to come and preach to us about. And if you can't see the bias and controversy surrounding her in threads and how they end up compared to characters like Goh and think she's bashed regularly whenever someone doesn't think she's the holy bible of how good characters are written, doesn't mean it is nonexistent.
Calm your ego
I didn't " look it up " dude. That would imply that I put some type of effort in it. It's literally just in your profile. I don't even have to go to a separate page. And if you honestly consider a simple meme mocking the absolute hilarity of your little circlejerk you got here as some sort of ego driven thing I conjured up to prove my " superior intellect, " that shows more about you than it does about me. It really isn't that complicated.

Going to doubt the authenticity of your claim that you or anyone else " lurked " since it's basically an unprovable statement and it's something I frankly don't take seriously at all based on many factors, but that's neither here or there.

Again, if you and other people want to latch on to the little fantasy, be my guest. Doesn't stop me or anyone else for mocking it. I've asked for evidence for your idiotic claims before and you or anyone else didn't provide them. Haven't separate mods deleted the kind of crap you guys regularly spew now?
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Remember: Eevee Taxi>Showcases & Best Girl Dawn <3
I didn't " look it up " dude. That would imply that I put some type of effort in it. It's literally just in your profile. And if you honestly consider a simple meme mocking the absolute hilarity of your little circlejerk you got here as some sort of ego driven thing I conjured up to prove my " superior intellect, " that shows more about you than it does about me. It really isn't that complicated.

Going to doubt the authenticity of your claim that you or anyone else " lurked " since it's basically an unprovable statement and it's something I frankly don't take seriously at all based on many factors, but that's neither here or there.

Again, if you and other people want to latch on to the little fantasy, be my guest. I've asked for evidence for your idiotic claims before and you or anyone else didn't provide them. Haven't separate mods deleted the kind of crap you guys regularly spew now?
Oh please, don't try to pretend I'm claiming your ego problems from this one post. It's a pattern of you from this forums I've seen multiple times, esp with how you've addressed other users and in arguments/debates. You have an air of superiority around you that you like to broadcast, and it isn't from one specific post
I don't give a crap if you're doubting the authenticity of a claim that makes zero sense to lie about. I've been a regular user of serebii since BW days and have lurked around in the forums a lot, maybe not as much as users who had an account back then but enough to have a general idea about the atmosphere. And I'm not just blaming it on anipoke fans but in general how internet culture has evolved over the years
Also, we have literally shown examples as to why this bias exists but if you want to ignore them and want all of us to be wrong and you right, go ahead. I don't care enough about you to bother proving anything more to you especially after seeing your attitude, especially not sharing my own personal experiences that have left a bitter taste in my mouth. As for the separate mod thing, it was entirely a different scenario coz it led to flaming and I've talked to the said mod since and I have no problems with them. But continue your delusions by all means
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Haven't separate mods deleted the kind of crap you guys regularly spew now?
And this is exactly why people complain, because nobody deletes the Goh's crap people regularly spew. Is is the current character and because of that people can bash him so badly without any real consequence? "Fair", but people are much more incivilized talking about him than any other character, but also as OP commented, other topics like Iris, and in my experience SM didn't have this level of protection in the past and neither in the present, which shows the priorities aboutwhat is moderated and it isn't.
Oh and if you want evidence, go to EP941, wait it was censored even when it is literally an episode about Serena's conclusion as a character and is totally on-topic. Shocking.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Remember: Eevee Taxi>Showcases & Best Girl Dawn <3
Oh and if you want evidence, go to EP941, wait it was censored even when it is literally an episode about Serena's conclusion as a character and is totally on-topic. Shocking.
Even if his opinion was 'wrong' from a canon perspective (which not all of his was) deleting everything related to that argument is freaking censorship. It's plain banter about a character, even if they are misinterpretation about a character it's part of the discourse, especially coz the user in question was very civil about it. In fact they specifically went out of their way to point out that their aim isn't to bash Serena as a character but stating their own problems.
 

Power Up

There's light at the end of the tunnel
Oh please, don't try to pretend I'm claiming your ego problems from this one post. It's a pattern of you from this forums I've seen multiple times, esp with how you've addressed other users and in arguments/debates. You have an air of superiority around you that you like to broadcast, and it isn't from one specific post
I don't give a crap if you're doubting the authenticity of a claim that makes zero sense to lie about. I've been a regular user of serebii since BW days and have lurked around in the forums a lot, maybe not as much as users who had an account back then but enough to have a general idea about the atmosphere. And I'm not just blaming it on anipoke fans but in general how internet culture has evolved over the years
Also, we have literally shown examples as to why this bias exists but if you want to ignore them and want all of us to be wrong and you right, go ahead. I don't care enough about you to bother proving anything more to you especially after seeing your attitude, especially not sharing my own personal experiences that have left a bitter taste in my mouth. As for the separate mod thing, it was entirely a different scenario coz it led to flaming and I've talked to the said mod since and I have no problems with them. But continue your delusions by all means
Ignoring the Sigmund Freud type pyschoanalysis which I frankly similarly don't care about, let me accept for a second that you did lurk since the BW days or whatever.

So then surely you saw the constant, multiple threads on Serena that would range to 10+ pages on Serebii that would teeter into the depths of the flaming abyss before they were finally closed? Surely you saw the three 200+ pages or so " Controversial Opinions/Unpopular " threads that were just chock full of Serena bashing, flaming, etc before they were locked? Tell me, where are the individual threads on Goh that are just thinly veiled attempts to bash his character?

Have you ever considered that " flaming " is a direct result of the type of so-called Serena discussion " here and why those threads are regularly locked and posts are deleted? But yes, the " bias. "
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
where are the individual threads on Goh that are just thinly veiled attempts to bash his character?
Yeah, clearly people thinking about torturing writers because they didn't like an episode about a kids show (Absol episode) is completely fine but people expressing their feelings about Serena as a character in the episode that acts as a conclusion to her character is completely wrong

This is the level of priorities we have when things are moderated and when they are not.

This is a good note to end this convo on, from my side atleast :p
Sinnoh music is the best
Gen 4 in general*, even the spin off games like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2 and Pokémon Ranger 2 have some of the best musics in the franchise.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Remember: Eevee Taxi>Showcases & Best Girl Dawn <3
Ignoring the Sigmund Freud type pyschoanalysis which I frankly similarly don't care about, let me accept for a second that you did lurk since the BW days or whatever.

So then surely you saw the multiple threads on Serena that would range to 10+ pages on Serebii? Surely you saw the three 200+ pages or so " Controversial Opinions/Unpopular threads that were full of Serena bashing? Tell me, where are the individual threads on Goh that are just thinly veiled attempts to bash his character?

Have you ever considered that " flaming " is a direct result of Serena discussion and why those threads are regularly locked and posts are deleted? But yes, the " bias. "
Welp, I guess this will be my last post lol, posted at the same time as my last message.
Yes I did see some of those pages. A thread with the title of controversial opinions being controversial and toxic isn't a surprising thing. Nor is that a few threads being discussing Serena (10+ pages means it's bad? Lmao, every character has their own discussion) Again, never said there wasn't ANY toxicity, but it was never on this level where it's prevalent throughout the forums. Oh please don't even try to argue that Goh isn't bashed every time in every single thread and all of that is valid and true, and he has had those threads to which are veiled attempts for people to insult him, heck they do it in every single freaking thread
And nope, that incident isn't what always happens. Heck that incident was me jumping the gun based on past incidents which derailed the thread and led to flaming, something I accept was wrong and didn't mind it being removed or the warnings. Not every thread is like that, but if you want to pretend it, go ahead. You're not worth it at all to even discuss on this topic, continue your delusions. Have a good day
 

Power Up

There's light at the end of the tunnel
Welp, I guess this will be my last post lol, posted at the same time as my last message.
Yes I did see some of those pages. A thread with the title of controversial opinions being controversial and toxic isn't a surprising thing. Nor is that a few threads being discussing Serena (10+ pages means it's bad? Lmao, every character has their own discussion) Again, never said there wasn't ANY toxicity, but it was never on this level where it's prevalent throughout the forums. Oh please don't even try to argue that Goh isn't bashed every time in every single thread and all of that is valid and true, and he has had those threads to which are veiled attempts for people to insult him, heck they do it in every single freaking thread
And nope, that incident isn't what always happens. Heck that incident was me jumping the gun based on past incidents which derailed the thread and led to flaming, something I accept was wrong and didn't mind it being removed or the warnings. Not every thread is like that, but if you want to pretend it, go ahead. You're not worth it at all to even discuss on this topic, continue your delusions. Have a good day
And so the crusade will continue! Rage against the machine and the systemic oppression! My fanatical delusions and all that jazz. I'd hope it would be a bit boring though, but what do I know. Much of this is absurdly and hilariously wrong except the " you're not worth it all to even to discuss this topic. "

Have fun I guess?
 

Sham

Code Lyoko was ahead of it's time
And so the crusade will continue! Rage against the machine and the systemic oppression! My fanatical delusions and all that jazz. I'd hope it would be a bit boring though, but what do I know. Much of this is absurdly and hilariously wrong except the " you're not worth it all to even to discuss this topic. "

Have fun I guess?
Please take this the wrong way because I mean this with full offense but do not make light of systemic oppression because your fave is getting criticism. Your fave is worth making fun of a bunch of people getting hurt? Depressing.
 

Power Up

There's light at the end of the tunnel
Please take this the wrong way because I mean this with full offense but do not make light of systemic oppression because your fave is getting criticism. Your fave is worth making fun of a bunch of people getting hurt? Depressing.
Please kindly f*ck off. I don't need someone who is presumably a white person(and frankly it doesn't matter) to decide for me, a minority, that I'm somehow making light of systemic oppression because of an intentional misreading of my comment to suit a blatant smear. Absurdly disgusting. Pray tell, who are you?
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Remember: Eevee Taxi>Showcases & Best Girl Dawn <3
Please kindly f*ck off. I don't need someone who is presumably a white person(and frankly it doesn't matter) to decide for me, a minority, that I'm somehow making light of systemic oppression because of an intentional misreading of my comment to suit a blatant smear. Absurdly disgusting. Pray tell, who are you?
Very well. I'm a POC so I guess I get a say In this atleast? Your comment was incredibly dumb and a stupid attempt to make any point you were trying to make and just bringing up systematic oppression is peak clown behaviour. What was the purpose of your comment? No offense but it is literally one of the most idiotic responses I've read in this forum and that's coming from someone who read a response that Kukui is a stripper. Jesus Christ
 
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